Please read: A note on EU and the OT.

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Commander Antilles, Sep 9, 2001.

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  1. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    I agree. They ask a question that they know is not answered by the movies, yet they ridicule people for bringing in the EU, even when it answers the original question.
  2. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    Bib, AGAIN I will state the same thing! And I bet again you won't answer it. Would you just say "The EU says X" or "I think X" INSTEAD of when you say "X happened. End of story"? This really angers me, as in this forum, EU is considered speculation.

    Any questions?

    And to the EU-bashers, if EU is posted in a thread in the manner I have stated above, DON'T bash the EU because it's EU! Just ignore it or state why you think it's wrong. Okay?
  3. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    I only "shove the EU down peoples throats" when they bash the EU answer just because it is EU. Take a look at all of my posts and you will see that.
  4. Wesmin7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 3
    Has anyone ever thought that the EU as well as the movies (which we have seen) has some misstakes in it? If someone states something from the EU it might be a misstake and not the whole of the EU being wrong.
  5. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    Bib, you didn't answer my post. Read it again.
  6. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    There are no mistakes in either the movies or EU that can't be easily recified.

    Bib, you didn't answer my post. Read it again.

    Um, sure I did. You claim I say "X happened, end of story" and I showed you why I say that. If the purists wouldn't bash the EU, I wouldn't have to resort to saying that.

    It is the purists who are at fault in most of these canon debates, not the EUers.
  7. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    It is the purists who are at fault in most of these canon debates, not the EUers.

    You are so full of it it's not funny.

    Countless times you have supplied an EU answer, and noone has said anything bad about it, or started any eu/canon debates, until someone else puts forward Their own personal speculation as to a point someone mentioned and you've come back in in heated "defense" of the EU,
    They are movies, a set of fiction, open to interpretation by any who sees them, open to discussion by anyone who wanst to discuss them.
    I've told you before, I don't want to hear chapter and verse of what Barbara Hambly or any other Mills & Boon reject thinks! I have read some EU, even enjoyed some of it, but they are very, very far from the final word on THE EVENTS IN THE MOVIES
    Just let us discuss our own personal take on things, supply an EU answer as is your right, but leave it up to anyone to take it or leave it.
    How can something be canon to fans of the movies who don't read the books? Think about that.
  8. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Countless times you have supplied an EU answer, and noone has said anything bad about it, or started any eu/canon debates, until someone else puts forward Their own personal speculation as to a point someone mentioned and you've come back in in heated "defense" of the EU,

    Actually, no, I haven't. Look closely at any of those threads. My first post is usually nice and clean. Only after the answer is bashed do I say the EU is the only answer.

    They are movies, a set of fiction, open to interpretation by any who sees them, open to discussion by anyone who wanst to discuss them.

    True.

    I've told you before, I don't want to hear chapter and verse of what Barbara Hambly or any other Mills & Boon reject thinks! I have read some EU, even enjoyed some of it, but they are very, very far from the final word on THE EVENTS IN THE MOVIES

    That is your opinion.

    Just let us discuss our own personal take on things, supply an EU answer as is your right, but leave it up to anyone to take it or leave it.

    That is exactly what I do.

    How can something be canon to fans of the movies who don't read the books? Think about that.

    Irrelevant. I've never read most of the comics in the EU, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still canon.
  9. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Actually, no, I haven't. Look closely at any of those threads. My first post is usually nice and clean. Only after the answer is bashed do I say the EU is the only answer.

    So laughable any comment by me is unnecesary.


    I've told you before, I don't want to hear chapter and verse of what Barbara Hambly or any other Mills & Boon reject thinks! I have read some EU, even enjoyed some of it, but they are very, very far from the final word on THE EVENTS IN THE MOVIES

    That is your opinion.


    And also the opinion of a great many ppl here, none of which want the EU crammed into their throats.

    That is exactly what I do.

    BS!

    Irrelevant. I've never read most of the comics in the EU, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still canon.

    Not to me, not to ppl who just enjoy the films, not to Geaorge Lucas, not to Steve Sansweet.

    For the last time, take your EUDF and just go on retreat will you? Has it not been made perfectly vlear, loud and audible that the way you post your "EU answer" is annoying, persistent, and discouraging of any further speculation?

    THIS IS THE CLASSIC TRILOGY FORUM!
    Not the "Get an answer from the EU forum!" Got that?
    I fricking doubt it.





  10. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    Um, sure I did. You claim I say "X happened, end of story" and I showed you why I say that. If the purists wouldn't bash the EU, I wouldn't have to resort to saying that.

    No, that's not it. You say "X happened, end of story" in your INITAL post.
  11. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    So laughable any comment by me is unnecesary.

    Good then.

    And also the opinion of a great many ppl here, none of which want the EU crammed into their throats.


    Which I don't do unless you bash the EU.

    BS!

    You can believe it's BS, or you can believe it's the truth. The second option is correct.

    Not to me, not to ppl who just enjoy the films, not to Geaorge Lucas, not to Steve Sansweet.

    Lucas has never said anything about the EU's canon status, and Sansweet has never said the EU is not canon.

    For the last time, take your EUDF and just go on retreat will you? Has it not been made perfectly vlear, loud and audible that the way you post your "EU answer" is annoying, persistent, and discouraging of any further speculation?


    Try to get this through your head: I only say it's the only correct answer when you purists bash the EU.

    THIS IS THE CLASSIC TRILOGY FORUM!
    Not the "Get an answer from the EU forum!" Got that?
    I fricking doubt it.


    This is a Star Wars forum with a focus on the Classic Trilogy. I have the right to bring in the EU if I wish. You have no say in the matter.

    No, that's not it. You say "X happened, end of story" in your INITAL post.

    No, I actually don't.

    Now can we please stop all this hostility?
  12. Emperor_Dan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 1999
    star 4
    Read your threads, you do.
  13. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Read my threads. I don't.

    My first post on any of the EU threads here is always clean. It is only after someone bashes the EU for no other reason than that it's EU do I say the EU is the only correct answer.

    You are free to believe whatever you want, but I only speak the truth. I don't lie, because there is no reason to lie.
  14. ecmbobafetts Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    Bib give it up everyone knows you try ram the Eu down everyones throats.

    do me a favour stick to the OT not the EU

    You werent around in 1977 when SW first came out I understand that. I know you grew up with the EU first and then the OT. For most of us that were around in 1977 to see SW we consider the EU crap.
    This is because any real SW fan is a fan of GL work not everyone elses.

    Most fans can agree with me on this. Here is an example of what i mean. Growing up I had every SW toy there was except some of those mini-rigs that were made that werent in the movies. Even though GL gave rights to Kenner to make them I still didnt considered them SW.

    This is because I never saw them or read about them in books or in the movies written or directed by GL.

    To this day I have not bought or read anything that doesnt deal with GL SW universe. I still have every toy except those ones. It even took me awhile to get Boba Fett as when he came out, I wasnt sure if he was going to be in another movie.

    So Bib have some respect for the true SW fans who were around since day one and please stop with all your answers reffering to the EU in this forum.
  15. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Bib give it up everyone knows you try ram the Eu down everyones throats.

    Only when the purists bash it. Why can't you understand that?

    do me a favour stick to the OT not the EU

    I will stick to Star Wars.

    You werent around in 1977 when SW first came out I understand that. I know you grew up with the EU first and then the OT. For most of us that were around in 1977 to see SW we consider the EU crap.

    Irrelevant.

    This is because any real SW fan is a fan of GL work not everyone elses.

    PPOR

    Most fans can agree with me on this. Here is an example of what i mean. Growing up I had every SW toy there was except some of those mini-rigs that were made that werent in the movies. Even though GL gave rights to Kenner to make them I still didnt considered them SW.

    It doesn't matter what "most people" think.

    This is because I never saw them or read about them in books or in the movies written or directed by GL.

    So?

    To this day I have not bought or read anything that doesnt deal with GL SW universe. I still have every toy except those ones. It even took me awhile to get Boba Fett as when he came out, I wasnt sure if he was going to be in another movie.

    Irrelevant.

    So Bib have some respect for the true SW fans who were around since day one and please stop with all your answers reffering to the EU in this forum.

    Why are you the "true" Star Wars fan? And I can use the EU all I want in my answers. You have no say in the matter.

    Now, please, let's stop all of this hostility. We gain nothing from all this hatred.
  16. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    They ask a question that they know is not answered by the movies, yet they ridicule people for bringing in the EU, even when it answers the original question.


    That's again where we differ hugely in our mentality. Some people ask those questions for a reason. Its fun to speculate. Its fun to think abotu what might have happened, its fun to think about what we think might have happened. They aren't looking for the "right" answer. They're looking for a fun discussion on something that could have happened, and other people's ideas on what might have happened. Not what a set of books says did happen.
  17. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Most of the people on here phrase their questions as if they want a single answer. If they want speculation, they should say so.

    However, in my experience, when people ask a question, they are always looking for a single answer. It's like if someone asks what 2+2 is, they don't want people saying "It might be 3 or 5 or 37." They want to hear 4.
  18. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    But this isn't math. Its movies. If someone asks, "What happened at Jabba's Palace while they were at the Sarlacc?" there's no one right answer for that question. You could come up with tons of answers, none fo which have anything to do with the EU, even though there was a book about it. Everyone has their own story, their own ideas.
  19. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    This problem is so easily explained and rectified.

    Here's all that has to happen for this to be not an issue anymore and we all want that. When a question is raised, the EU answer is given and is considered a valid explanation just like everyone else's. No EU bashing, no declaration of the EU as absolute fact. That's all there is to it.

    When someone asks something about the movies, they're not asking for a concrete answer like they're in a review session for a calculus exam. They want to speculate. Discuss things. Make * up. That's what Bib doesn't get. We're not all preparing for a test here. We're all just shooting the * about Star Wars.
  20. ecmbobafetts Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    Well said Darth Dark and Padme

    That is my whole point I like hearing other peoples opinions and ideas about questions not something in print.

    Bib cant you come up with your own ideas on events outside the scope of the movies. Maybe I am wrong on this and you maybe have given your our opinion and not the EU, but because everyone knows you support the EU. No one knows whats your idea or the EU.

    Think of it this way, go to a art gallery. There is a painting there and people are asking what you think of it. They want to hear your opinion of the painting not what some art review says about it. Also people want to hear what the artist says about his painting not what a art review says about. Just because the artist allows someone to write their impression of the painting doesnt mean thats what the artist intended.
  21. hex51 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    I think that whenever the EU expands on the OT, it adds to the SW universe. But I to think that some can be considered canon and some cannot.

    But whatever YOU choose to believe is up to you!

    An example: There's quite a few EU stories on Boba Fett. Many of these stories CAN be considered BS after AOTC + EPIII...Maybe... Let me explain: All of OT happened A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. As in myth, history or fairytale, things change depending on your point of view. Who says that, depending on which part of the galaxy you're from, or which political affiliation, there can't be different versions of the same story.

    As in the case of Boba Fett. For some he's scum and for some he's a hero.

    Our friends of OT (Han, Luke, Leia) are Boba Fetts enemies, while one of Jabba's dancers have been saved once by Boba Fett (EU). This doesn't hurt Boba Fett's character only expands on it ;)

    As in the case of the Empire. The Rebels work against them, but there are still people on Coruscant which cannot tell the difference between the Old Republic and the Emperors new Order. For the main part of the galaxy there is now difference.

    This is what I mean by saying that regarding what you believe and where you come from, the stories might change to fit into this...
    We see this every day in our own world.

    What do I mean with all this... :D

    EU whether it no longer fits into the OT, because of the new movies, can still be considered SOMEONEs story or SOMEONEs point of view, that fits into his or hers social or political herecy...err or something like that, of what happened that long time ago...

    ...And so it's up to you to decide what's real for you and what's not, but not what's real for others.

    Enough BS from me though... :)
  22. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Sith_Magician & Padme Bra...
    "Just let us discuss our own personal take on things, supply an EU answer as is your right, but leave it up to anyone to take it or leave it." (SM)

    And...

    "They want to speculate. Discuss things. Make * up. " (PB)

    If such is truly the case, then isn't this the wrong forum for that sort of thing? There's an entire forum - Fan Fiction Stories - set up for people to make up stuff based on their own personal opinions. Isn't that essentially what we're dealing with here. People wish the ability to make stuff up to answer questions from the movie which may have been answered in an official sense. There actually shouldn't really be any fan-fiction here at all, because it's rather out of place here.

    Go to fan-fiction and make up whatever stories you wish about whatever aspects of the movies one's little heart desires - that's the point of that forum.

    I don't think anyone has ever said you have to be knowledgeable about 100% of the Star Wars canon to be able to understand the story given in the movies. If that's where you wish to focus your particular like, then a lot of what you need to know (but not everything you may be interested in knowing) is given just in the movies. If you want to know things which the movies don't really expand on in detail, then the places to go are the places which do so. And, if you're not insterested in knowing those answers, then simply go to fan-fic and make up ones which will satisfy you and others.
  23. Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 5
    Fan Fiction is for sharing ideas in story form. Most people here just want to exchange ideas. A good example is the thread about if Vader lied to Luke about the Emperor's prophesies. They aren't making up a story, but sharing how they had intrepreted the lines from those scenes. There are plenty of possible explainations, and people like to "make up" what they think Vader was really up to.

    Other threads ask what JCers would have liked to have seen in Ep 7-9 if they were made. It isn't necessarily asking what the EU says happened (though EU is a valid response), nor are they creating a story. They are just posting their thoughts.

    That is what the mods were refering to.
  24. ecmbobafetts Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    you may be right in a a way but look at the title of this forum it doesnt say Movies/Classic Trilogy including EU. Thats my whole point and I wish people would understand that.

    Listen, yes I dont like the EU but if people read it I dont care if you have opinions or "facts" based on the EU. My point is this Forum is for movie questions and answers not the EU.

    Why do you think they try to keep the PT out of this forum as much as possible. That is because this is for the first 3 movies. Even thought now some questions are being answered by the PT, it is still considered fact.

  25. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Gay...
    "Fan Fiction is for sharing ideas in story form. Most people here just want to exchange ideas... but sharing how they had intrepreted the lines from those scenes... They are just posting their thoughts... That is what the mods were refering to."

    That's not a correct summary of fan-fic's scope. I say again, Fan-Fiction is the place to merely exchange ideas as well. Don't take yours or my word for it, though - The "Official TF.N" description for the Fan Fiction Stories is as follows:
      "Fan Fiction Stories - Got a story to tell in the Star Wars Universe? Share it here with other fan fiction lovers, or just discuss ideas and participate in pass-around stories."
    "Or just discuss ideas." Look at what you said people wish to do here... "Most people here just want to exchange ideas." That's why Fan-Fiction is set up - to do exactly that. To do that, based on nothing official.

    However, the "official" forums - whether it's movies, literature, games... whatever - should have standards above mere fan-fiction. That is, if I go to the Lit. forums, I expect to discuss the official literature, not someone's fan-fiction. Same thing with the movie forums. If I ask what Darth Vader's full "Dark Lord" title is in the OT, I darn well better get "Dark Lord of the Sith" and not "Caretaker of Jim-Bob's Catfish Shack." Even though neither title is in the OT, one is correct and the other isn't. And people would still be wrong not to accept it.

    If I ask for an answer here, it better darn well be something other than fan-fic, otherwise that person will be steering me wrong.

    I'm not saying that fan speculation is a bad thing, it isn't. But given a difference between an official answer and a fan-fiction one, the fan-fiction one belongs in the fan-fic forum and the official ones belong here.
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