Please read: A note on EU and the OT.

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Commander Antilles, Sep 9, 2001.

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  1. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Sith Magician, I think you should ask ecm to answer your question...
    "can someone please explain to me exactly how someone could misinterpret the title of this forum as not being Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi?"

    After all, he said pretty much right above it...
    "The ewok adventures are part of the OT because GL is directly tied into it." :)

    If you need further help in understanding the issue, then try the exercise I advised you to try. Based on the forum titles and descriptions alone, tell us where you think a thread discussing "Ewoks: Caravan of Courage" would go and which description caused you to put it there. You will definitely not come up with any of the EU forums. What you will come up with is possibly one or two of the movie forums. Ecm, it seems, would put them with the OT, and logically, that's a pretty sound place for them based on a number of things. I think maybe they'd be better off in "Movies: Star Wars Miscellaneous." Where would you put it based on the forums the JC has available. Be honest. :) (This isn't just about Ewoks: Caravan of Courage, there's a bunch of EU that is in a similar situtation. There's also a bunch of EU which Lucas has had a rather direct role in creating, which tends to negate the "I only care about Lucas' portion of the Saga" line some people like to give.) But, the fact is, if the movie forums are the logical place for some EU-related items, why so much hostility against them. ?[face_plain]

    Wesmin, thank you for the excellent summary of how this thread was hijacked into surrealism with respect to discussion about the existence of EU movies. ?[face_plain]
  2. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    "The ewok adventures are part of the OT because GL is directly tied into it."

    This troubles me.

    [takes a moment]

    Several point here (some sensible, others not but equally valid]

    1) OT means original TRILOGY - that means 3. If it included anything other than ANH, ESB, and ROTJ, it would no longer be a TRILOGY

    2) By the argument above, TPM is part of the original trilogy beacuse GL is directly tied into it

    3) By the argument above, American Graffiti, Indiana Jones, Willow, THX-1138, and Howard the Duck are part of the OT, because GL is directly tied into them!
  3. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Halibut,

    I agree with you in spirit that ecm's statement has problems, but I also need to point out your (very rational) points are valid only if discussion in the CT forums is limited to just discussion of the CT. However, we know this is not the case (see the "regurgitating facts" point raised by Padme Bra and kicked around here earlier.)

    That is, I'd agree with you 100% if the CT forum was just about the CT - but the fact is, it's not. We've had any number of people, including myself and movie mods who recognize that the "Original Trilogy" is also about unofficial fan-fic speculation and many tangential issues outside of strictly the "Original Trilogy." Certainly, based on those looser standards, discussion of the Ewok Adventures is much less problematic in relation to other discussion seen in the CT forums.
  4. Commander Antilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1999
    star 6
    Actually, the Ewok films should really go into the Lucasfilm Projects forum. :p
  5. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah, but that whole, "...that are not directly SW..." thing kind of screws it up.

    Now, I guess if one hates the EU and doesn't think it's SW, then... oh... ohhhhhh. :mad: :p :D
  6. ecmbobafetts Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    Thats my whole point if the Ewok movies go into a diferent forum then why does the EU belong here?

    I could say answer a question with a fact from an ewok movie here and get the same result as people that answer with the EU. What I mean is people can jump on me and tell me it doesnt belong here or isnt fact. thats the way it should be because this is for OT movie answers and questions.

    I looked at the EU forum and didnt see too many answers using the OT info, but if I tried EU would tell me the same thing "IT DOESNT BELONG IN THIS FORUM"

    I am going to try that brb
  7. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Ecm...
    "I looked at the EU forum and didnt see too many answers using the OT info"

    Not true at all. The following threads from "page 1" (depends on user settings) all are related to the OT and/or have had OT info used in response to issues addressed:You don't seem to have much experience with the EU forums, but rest assured, we have a lot of "movie-related EU threads" in the EU forums, because the EU forums are the place for EU threads. Conversely, there are also a lot of "EU-related movie threads" which belong in the movie forums, because the movie forums are the proper place for movie threads.

    There are differences between the two. However, I grant that perhaps there's people who are unable to recognize them. :)
  8. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    halibut wrote:
    "1) OT means original TRILOGY - that means 3. If it included anything other than ANH, ESB, and ROTJ, it would no longer be a TRILOGY"
    I'd assert that it's a semantic argument. I'd say that instead of focusing on the number implied by "trilogy," instead focus on information regarding the Galactic Civil War era.

    "2) By the argument above, TPM is part of the original trilogy beacuse GL is directly tied into it"
    Incorrect. TPM is part of a different era of the Star Wars Saga.

    "3) By the argument above, American Graffiti, Indiana Jones, Willow, THX-1138, and Howard the Duck are part of the OT, because GL is directly tied into them!"
    Wrong. Dead wrong. None of the above titles are Star Wars-related.
  9. SkottASkywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    I enjoy all STAR WARS to the fullest and I accept all STAR WARS to the fullest.

    When we post on these boards, whether it's to create a thread or post a reply on a thread or both, why don't we state what we want to state in a mature and civil way and if we have a change we want to make, whether it's to add or subtract or whatever to what we have already posted, then make another post in a mature and civil way.

    If someone attacks our post, rips our post, dissagrees with our post and so on and we stand by our post, then stand by our post instead of replying to their post and instead of coming back at that person. It would be a good statement of standing by our post and a good show of maturity and a good show of civility.

    All of this would eliminate the attacking and ripping and bickering and bantering and so on and eliminate the locking-out of threads and eliminate the banning of people from these boards.

    There are many adults on these boards. We should act like adults and there are many young people on these boards and it would set a good example for them. Regardless of our age, we all should be mature and civil.

    We are all STAR WARS fans. Attacking and ripping and bickering and bantering and so on is not what STAR WARS is about and is not what being a STAR WARS fan is about.
  10. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    "1) OT means original TRILOGY - that means 3. If it included anything other than ANH, ESB, and ROTJ, it would no longer be a TRILOGY"
    I'd assert that it's a semantic argument. I'd say that instead of focusing on the number implied by "trilogy," instead focus on information regarding the Galactic Civil War era.

    I disagree. It is well-established the OT refers to the 3 SW movies and nothing else

    "2) By the argument above, TPM is part of the original trilogy beacuse GL is directly tied into it"
    Incorrect. TPM is part of a different era of the Star Wars Saga.

    I assume you realise that I don't agree with the argument I used. ecm made a blanket statement which is untrue. I was just illustrating that

    "3) By the argument above, American Graffiti, Indiana Jones, Willow, THX-1138, and Howard the Duck are part of the OT, because GL is directly tied into them!"
    Wrong. Dead wrong. None of the above titles are Star Wars-related.

    Yeah, I know. If ecm's statement was true, then my point here is true. If my point is NOT true, then neither is ecm's
  11. RogueSith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 3
    If anyone cares, here is the description of this forum :

    Where it all began. We never get tired of talking about Episode 4-6.

    Seems pretty specific.
  12. Philzilla Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2002
    "Actually, the Ewok films should really go into the Lucasfilm Projects forum."

    actually they should never be discussed again, along with the Christmas Special

    *shudder*

    kidding ;)
  13. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Roguesith...
    "Seems pretty specific."

    [face_mischief] One would think wouldn't one. However, since you seem to stick to this idea that somehow the movie forums are merely for the straight regurgitation of movie facts, as already debunked by Padme Bra, let's have a little fun.

    Using ecm's "recent posts" in the CT forum as a guide, let's just see how many threads are "pretty specific." We're having fun, so while I'm being serious, don't take this too seriously. :D The following threads are in the CT forum, yet aren't about the CT at all...I don't think ecm's posted to any proper movie threads in the past several weeks, if ever at all. :D I have to note that DDH and Padme Bra (and Commander Antilles) "got it," they realize that the movie forums are for more than just the movies. But then, that's why they're in charge. After all, most all of the entire movie forums by rights belong in Fan Fic according to the thread description [face_mischief]

    So, I say again, the "purist" camp (excluding perhaps Ironparrot) generally has no "moral highgroun
  14. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    You have WAY too much free time :p
  15. Wesmin7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 3
    That he may but he made a valid point.
  16. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    So, by that reasoning then, we must only use this forum for things like "line by line" or some such crap?

    Dude, the bottom line, without getting into semantics, loop holes or any other piddling little crap, is that some of us want to discuss our own personal take/viewpoint on the original 3 films, without being told discussion isn't necesary because the EU answers it all.

    Are we getting through yet?
  17. RogueSith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 3
    What a fun guy Ghengis must be. [face_plain]

    I've said this before, but here goes one more time - I don't care about what you think is canon, or about what you think should be here or not. My point was that the arrogant nit-picking way in which you lecture others, makes discussing Star Wars anything but fun, which is what I thought we were here for.
    What started this for me was your statement regarding ecmbobafetts use of the term "movies". You said something like - "I hope to God this doesn't boil down to a mere semantic argument", and then called him ignorant and "absurdly-narrow". Despite the fact that the official site uses the exact same terminology. That was both insulting and melodramatic. I would hope the EU would stay out of OT discussions, but I don't hope to God that it does. That's what I meant when I referred to your diversion of the topic as insincere.

    If you want to talk about EU 24/7, fine. If you want to interject EU in to every discussion on every board, fine. But you don't have to be a jerk about it, do you?
  18. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I think this thread has reached an impass.

    1) EUers. No stating that EU is the ONLY correct solution to a theory

    2) Purist. No reject theories purely because they are EU

    If you agree with these statements, then post no further
    If you disagree, then post your reasons here
  19. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Number one, no one talks about the Ewok movies so why is this even an issue? :p

    Ok, here we go.

    Quote:
    "Based on the forum titles and descriptions alone, tell us where you think a thread discussing "Ewoks: Caravan of Courage" would go and which description caused you to put it there"


    Don't use an infinistessimally small flaw in the design of the forum to try to justify EU in the Classic Trilogy forum. Yes, technically, there would be a separate forum for Lucas created SW films other than the main films. This would include the Ewok films, the droid movies if Lucas wrote them and maybe the Star Tours "film", if anyone is insane enough to call that a film. So yeah, those "films" would technically belong in a forum separate from the OT, EU or Miscellaneous forums because Lucas' direct writing involvement makes them not EU. But no one talks about them and no one up to this point has been meticulous enough to suggest that they should have their own forum. They don't belong in CT and therefore that back door attempt at sliding EU into the CT isn't valid.

    Quote:
    "Incorrect. TPM is part of a different era of the Star Wars Saga. "


    No it isn't, it's a couple decades from the OT. I think the Ewok movies are farther apart than that. And why is that any kind of criteria?

    Quote:
    "However, since you seem to stick to this idea that somehow the movie forums are merely for the straight regurgitation of movie facts, as already debunked by Padme Bra,""


    No, I said that this forum wasn't about regurgitating facts from EU. It's about the trilogy of movies, not the EU.

    Quote:
    "Please read: A note on EU and the OT. - Belongs in Communications. A thread not about the movies by a mod, no less"


    No, it belongs here. Announcements in forums other than Communications are common.

    Quote:
    "Alternate prequel trilogy - Belongs in fan-fic"


    No, fanfic is for complete stories. If you're going to start classifying everything that isn't directly from the published material as fan fiction, we'd have nothing but reproductions of scripts and books. And that would violate copyright laws.

    Quote:
    "original trilogy trailers - Off-topic, trailers are not the original trilogy movies. "


    They are the trailers to the movies. Come on now.

    Quote:
    "Somebody's getting lied to - Off-topic. Mentions "Sith" with respect to original trilogy movies, therefore obviously must be EU."


    No. The word "Sith" was created by Lucas and is therefore not EU. It is U.

    Quote:
    "Star Wars Name Game! - Off-topic, some of the names in the thread do not appear in the movies at all."


    See directly above.

    Quote:
    "Topic: That boy is our last hope.... - Simply kicking around ideas and trying to attribute intent to characters not shown in the movies, belongs in fan-fic."


    See a few points above.

    Quote:
    "Was there any clues in ANH that Vader was Luke's Dad? - SHould be in fan-fic due to one of the choices being "I thought Tarkin was Luke's Dad!" Of which 5% of you guys that responded think was the case."


    Above.

    Quote:
    "Classic Trilogy background - Doesn't deal with the movies at all, but people's responses within threads.

    Maybe that one doesn't belong here.

    Quote:
    "RE: Stuff that should've been in the OT - Stuff that should've been in the OT is not in the OT."


    Still releated to the movies and not the EU

    Quote:
    "Leia is hottest in... - a thread that very quickly became a fan-fic thread speculating about sex organs of characters not shown in the movies. Chewie's dooku or jangos are not in the OT."


    Despite being insipid, the thread's original intent was to talk abut Leia who is in what? The OT.

    Quote:
    "Boba Fett???? - speculates he died, should be fan-fic"


    Above.

    Quote:
    "Luke vs. Vader after the PT - After the PT is not the PT. Talking about the entire six-part saga taking on a new twist. The OT is about a trilogy, not six movies."


    Maybe could have been better suited to Miscellaneous but still i
  20. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I appreciate your efforts, but Ghengis said his comments were not serious in that post, and thus shouldn't be taken as such
  21. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    His post might have been tongue in cheek but I think he really means what he's saying. Am I wrong?
  22. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    As I said before (and as I shall keep posting at regular intervals)

    I think this thread has reached an impass.

    1) EUers. No stating that EU is the ONLY correct solution to a theory

    2) Purists. No rejecting theories purely because they are EU

    If you agree with these statements, then post no further
    If you disagree, then post your reasons here
  23. Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 6
    I can't say anything better then what PBra did.
  24. ecmbobafetts Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    For the Record I started the
    Boba Fett???? thread

    It had nothing to do with him being dead I even corected people by bringing up the EU in it.

    The purpose of my thread was to ask people why all the Boba Fett bashing and explain from the movies why he is so great not from the EU.

    So I suggest b4 you start using some OT threads as proof of the EU in the OT forum you read them first.

    Here is my Thread that started the Boba Fett??? thread:


    I love Boba Fett hes great. I am really getting sick of all the people that bash him. He sucks cuz he was killed by a blind man. Well yes that is true but he doesnt suck cuz of it. Think about it with all u know about AOTC, Boba has so much hatred towards the jedi. Notice when u flies over to the skiff he only focuses on luke sure he was the one with the light saber. There we guns lying around on the skiff that Han picked up when Boba was there. The thing is when luke jumped to the other skiff Boba was still trying to get him. See if the things that happened in Aotc to Boba dont happen. Then i could see after luke jumps to the other skiff Boba instead killing han and chewie and lando and then going after luke but he didnt cuz there is that anger.

    Yes i know the OT was done way b4 but thats what makes this so much fun cuz even though GL didnt even hint at Bobas anger towards the jedi in the OT. We now can use it to fill holes like y didnt Boba do this and that.

    Think of this way someone just killed a family member. You see a member of their group in the street u go after them. You run into the street and get smack by a car are u dumb? No you just let ur anger get the best of u like Boba did.

    edit: Please don't ellude to spoilers.


    I agree somewhat with what u said but my only problem is this.

    Boba went to shoot luke with his blaster first but luke cropped it in two. Then Boba used his rope. The reason why he used his rope instead of his wrist darts and knee rockets was simple. Luke was too close to him to use anything else but his rope. According to all the weaponary that Boba has nothing except his blaster and rope are good for close quarters battles. His wrist rockets explode so if he shot them at luke they might have killed Boba or hurt him too.

    Thats why when luke is on the other skiff, Boba then uses his wrist rockets. Regardless of what anyone believes Boba wanted Luke dead.


    TELL ME what that has to do with the EU
  25. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    The original stuff had little to do with EU. I brought in some EU material calmly and cleanly, but you still disputed my right to be able to use EU if I wish. That is what lead to the thread getting derailed. Not the use of the EU itself, but all the bickering you caused.
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