Please respond

In the sourcebooks, are Darth Vaders stats higher or Darth Mauls?

 

Darth Maul - Level 12
Darth Vader - Level 18 + 1 level as a fringer (when he was Anakin)
Yoda - Level 20

Thats from the RPG, probably slightly different in the Dark Side sourcebook

 

Thanks...btw what about Darth Siious/Palpatine?what are his stats?

 

Maul has a higher Strength than Vader does, which I do not buy. Vader was a cyborg and Maul gave no evidence of his inhuman strength. Maul's is listed as 17 and Vader's is 16, should be 18 or 19 for Vader, maybe 14 or 15 Maul.

 

Hey, go buy the book.

 

Lord Sidious was a level 3 Noble and a 16 Jedi Consular

 

Maul was better than Vader. Simple as that. should explain why his strength was so high.

 

Feh.

 

Maul was better than Vader???????????? What are you CRAZY man? Sure his fighting style looked fancier than Vader's but 16 years passed since Vader's scenes, the moves Maul used wasn't big in the 1970s or 80's, had they been big you would see Vader mop the floor with the entire alliance. It was only the difference in times of the movies not Mauls strength that made him look so awesome.

After all Maul killed what 3 maybe 4 Jedi, while Lord Vader made them go extint Killing thousands, that alone makes Vader the second most powerful Sith, only Palpy was stronger.

 

Apparently stats make the character.

 

Not always sometimes how you play it can make a difference.

 

I think it must be a 'kewl' factor that Maul has, and even then he can't hold a candle to Vader in any way, shape or form.

 

Look, here it is flat.

Maul needs bad-ass stats because of the crappy character development that Lucas and his team gavce him in Episode I. IMHO, Maul was probably the most poorly used, bad-ass villain in a long long while.

Vader is the real bad-ass in this discussion. Not due to stats, but due to storyline and history. Like someone else mentioned, Vader helped cause the near extinction of the Jedi Order.

Again, Vader was the true bad-ass, but Maul needs the stats to prop his character up in the RPG.

-Maj-Odo Taji

P.S.- And before anyone starts the "Who Would Have Won???" issue, here is how it would be in my tabletop:

Maul enters the room through the huge blast doors and draws his double-bladed lightsaber, igniting both ends and assuming a defensive posture. Vader slowly nods, his breathing slow and calm. Maul begins charging Vader, the black armor-clad man still not drawing his own lightsaber, but rather extending a hand with his thumb and index finger outstretched, as if pinching something. Suddenyl Maul drops to the floor half-way between his origin and Vader, clutching his throat.


This sould teach of all you one thing: Stats mean about nothing when you look at a good storyline/history, and use your head. Just my two cents...

 

Good point.

 

Yeah Maul's character could have been the greatest SW character, but Lucas really fouled it up. You could be like me and re-write 95% of all the Exploited Universe to make a great story line instead of endless kidnappings, Imperial Superweapons, and underdeveloped villians that appear out of nowhere, kick the heroes ass for most of the book until the last few chapters when the heroes accidentally stumble on the super villians achilles hill, his only weakness and exploit it.

 

Yeah Maul's character could have been the greatest SW character, but Lucas really fouled it up. You could be like me and re-write 95% of all the Exploited Universe to make a great story line instead of endless kidnappings, Imperial Superweapons, and underdeveloped villians that appear out of nowhere, kick the heroes ass for most of the book until the last few chapters when the heroes accidentally stumble on the super villians achilles hill, his only weakness and exploit it.

You should have dropped by the canon debate in the Lit forum a few days back. I'd like to see your rewrite, and the Expanded Universe ain't all that bad. Sure there have been some real dogs-anything written by Anderson, Fontana, and Zahn immediately spring to mind, and ues, the kidnapings got to be really redundant. BUt the Alston and Stackpole novels are quite sound, and many, many people enjoy the New Jedi Order. As for Thrawn and his trilogy, yeah, it sucked.

 

Thats our difference of opinion Kier, Thrawn was my favorite series in the EU. I avoid the sensative topics in the lit forum, too easily flamed by gushers and their gushiness or bashers and their bashiness. Some people can't handle the fact others hated the Superweapons or the kidnappings, they go mad when you express distaste about them. I was insulted once when I said I re-wrote the EU to my liking, I've wrote many versions of the EU, that drasitcally change the story as we know it. I even wrote one where the Empire turned out to be the good guys during Thrawns campaign, Luke and Thrawn teamed up together, that was a fun re-write. As far as the NJO, yes I'm glad we have a new enemy the Empire was boring after a certain point, but the Vong are a bit ridiculous, they seem to be too powerful and they pissed me off killing Chewie. *sniffles* I loved that big furry oaf.
But when I decide which version of the EU I want to post (it will be in summary only not a novel) Ill post it in the Fan Fic section and let everybody know its there.

 

*koff* *sniff*
yes... nice points by everyone here.
but umm lets see here, vader did not exterminate the Jedi knights by himself. He had an entire army of clones by his side.In fact, vader always worked with battalions of stromtroopers, or by hiring bountyhunters. Maul always worked solo. Maul would not have needed to hire bounty hunters, he would have tracked the Falcon by himself. Remember how he tracked Amidala in TPM.
Oh and btw, Vader also got thrown into a lava pit by Obi-Wan in a one-on-one duel. And that was before he had his suit on, when he was at peak fighting skill. but yea i admit that does suck. I like Sith better than jedi.
Oh and yes i know, Obi-Wan did manage to kill Maul, but we all know how that happened. *blech*
Oh and vader would not be able to force choke Maul, nor maul Vader. they would cancell each other out. Force lightning would work though.
in an all out sabre duel, which is how Jedi(light and dark) fight each other, i think its pretty obvious maul would win. I mean, come on, he aint the one encased in a strightjackes/iron lung.

 

Thats our difference of opinion Kier, Thrawn was my favorite series in the EU. I avoid the sensative topics in the lit forum, too easily flamed by gushers and their gushiness or bashers and their bashiness.

Heh, heh, they (we) can take ourselves a little too seriously at times. That's why I left the Phantom Menace forum- getting flamed for nearly every post I made that even remotely sounded like a critique by narrow minded fans who had nothing better than to create threads where they write out the Phantom Menace script, got a little tiresome.

Some people can't handle the fact others hated the Superweapons or the kidnappings, they go mad when you express distaste about them.

I agree with you completely.

I was insulted once when I said I re-wrote the EU to my liking, I've wrote many versions of the EU, that drasitcally change the story as we know it.

As have I and don't care what other people think- that's the key. I also accept logical debates or concepts that aid me, but yes, if they can't stand that someone has different ideas about things should be, then that's their problem.

I even wrote one where the Empire turned out to be the good guys during Thrawns campaign, Luke and Thrawn teamed up together, that was a fun re-write.

That's a bit of stretch- Thrawn WAS evil, IMHO. It would have to be a pretty good reason.

As far as the NJO, yes I'm glad we have a new enemy the Empire was boring after a certain point, but the Vong are a bit ridiculous, they seem to be too powerful and they pissed me off killing Chewie.

The problem I have with the New Jedi Order, and don't get me wrong- I do LIKE it, is just what you said. The Vong have always seem to have an upper hand, but don't forget, they have infiltrated the Senate and are keeping the bulk of Navy out of things.

As for Chewie's death, well, some jerks actually sent Salvatore death threats for doing it. First, it wasn't his idea-he jiust wrote the book it happened in, second, Lucas o-kayed his death. I had no problem with it, he died nobly saving others, and he died a hero.

*sniffles* I loved that big furry oaf.

Me too.

But when I decide which version of the EU I want to post (it will be in summary only not a novel) Ill post it in the Fan Fic section and let everybody know its there.

Go for it, I'd like to see it.

 

but umm lets see here, vader did not exterminate the Jedi knights by himself. He had an entire army of clones by his side.

We don't know this, do we?

In fact, vader always worked with battalions of stromtroopers, or by hiring bountyhunters.

He's one guy and can't be everywhere at once.

Maul always worked solo. Maul would not have needed to hire bounty hunters, he would have tracked the Falcon by himself. Remember how he tracked Amidala in TPM.

He tracked the signal back to Tatooine when someone went against Obi-Wan's orders and sent a reply back to Naboo. ANYONE could have tracked them.

Oh and btw, Vader also got thrown into a lava pit by Obi-Wan in a one-on-one duel. And that was before he had his suit on, when he was at peak fighting skill. but yea i admit that does suck. I like Sith better than jedi.

They are interesting, just wish people would do them properly more often, IMHO.

Oh and yes i know, Obi-Wan did manage to kill Maul, but we all know how that happened. *blech*

Maul got stupid.

Oh and vader would not be able to force choke Maul, nor maul Vader. they would cancell each other out.

Wrong. One Force power does not cancel another.


Force lightning would work though.
in an all out sabre duel, which is how Jedi(light and dark) fight each other, i think its pretty obvious maul would win. I mean, come on, he aint the one encased in a strightjackes/iron lung.

Nor is Vader- Cybernetic armor. Vader could lose cybernetic limbs and keep going, Maul would be in serious trouble just losing an arm. Vader was also about 2' taller than Maul, which gives Vader a serious reach advantage, since his arms and legs would be longer. Vader was also more experienced, and more powerful in the Force.

 

*We don't know this, do we*
but we do.

*He's one guy and can't be everywhere at once.*
but he was all over the place while *eliminating all the jedi by himself* lol
you just proved my point thnks.oh and tracking the falcon was a top priority, but he couldnt do it himself.

*He tracked the signal back to Tatooine when someone went against Obi-Wan's orders and sent a reply back to Naboo. ANYONE could have tracked them.*
We dont know this do we?
oh and we dont see anyone send a return signal.

*Maul got stupid*
i agree

*Wrong. One Force power does not cancel another*
Sith cannot force choke other dark jedi or light side jedi of the same power.Which is why Vader never used force choke on Luke or Ben.

*Nor is Vader- Cybernetic armor. Vader could lose cybernetic limbs and keep going, Maul would be in serious trouble just losing an arm. Vader was also about 2' taller than Maul, which gives Vader a serious reach advantage, since his arms and legs would be longer. Vader was also more experienced, and more powerful in the Force*

the *cybernetic armor* is what keeps him alive. it also restricts his movements. plus mauls longer lightsabre makes up for vaders reach(how exactly do you know Vaders height?lol oh man you even have it memorized)
Vader was more experianced yes, but even with all his experiance he could not defeat old weezy Ben withou Ben letting him. While inexperianced Maul held of two jedi's, one of them a jedi master, the other almost a jedi knight. He killed the jedi master, and nearly killed Obi. (except that he got stupid, yes)
We dont know Vader is more powerful, we know he has the potential to be very powerful. If he was so powerful, why did he not kill of Palpatine? oh and Vader had a lot of years to develop his experiance and force power. Maul was still young, an apprentice.

 

but he was all over the place while *eliminating all the jedi by himself* lol
you just proved my point thnks.oh and tracking the falcon was a top priority, but he couldnt do it himself.

No, Proved I wasn't paying attention to what I was writing Seriously, I haven't the foggiest idea why Vader would use bounty hunters, except maybe to keep them out of his way, knowing that at least Fett wanted Han.

Secondly, he was tracking the Falcon, the only time he wasn't was when he got called away from it by the Emperor. Plus, at this point Vader was obsessed with finding Luke, which was his downfall. Both he and Maul had dramatic faults: Vader's obsession vs. Maul's over confidence.

oh and we dont see anyone send a return signal.

Some one must have, since Qui-Gon made made enough noise about not doing it. And since it's emphasized as a reason to prevent someone from extablishing a connection trace, it seems pretty obvious that this is what happened. Still, Maul *could* have actually sensed Anakin? And that's what made him choose Tatooine. Qui-Gon hinted as much to the Jedi Council since he believed it was the Force that drew him to Tatooine. I mean why not, Qui-Gon did. But it seems fairly obvious someone must have sent a signal.

Sith cannot force choke other dark jedi or light side jedi of the same power.Which is why Vader never used force choke on Luke or Ben.

Have you got this in writing somewhere? Seems to me a Sith would rather saber duel another Jedi rather than simply choke him anyway.

the *cybernetic armor* is what keeps him alive. it also restricts his movements.

No it didn't. Didn't seem to hinder him at all, actually.

plus mauls longer lightsabre makes up for vaders reach

Maul does not have a longer lightsaber-each blade is the length of a regular lightsaber, and he holds it in the middle, which gives him an extra striking edge, not longer reach. It *is* a more efficient weapon, however. Also, because of the way it's held, unless the secondary blade isn't ignited, the double lightsaber cannot be held at arm's length without slicing into the arm itself, thereby preventing one-handed sweeps. Plus, because the shaft itself is longer, it gives Maul MUCH greater striking power, because by spacing his hands along a longer shaft, he can use the saber like a lever and put more strength behind each strike. It's a lot like fighting with a quarter staff that's 6' long over a 3' escrima sticks. If it had a 6' long blade, I would agree. Plus, I suspect Vader would have the smarts to do what Obi-Wan did and cut it in half, which leveled the playing field instantly.

(how exactly do you know Vaders height?lol oh man you even have it memorized)

No I have eyes that can differentiate between two people's relative height.

David Prowse - Very Tall
Ray park - Very Short

Pretty easy to figure out, really.

Vader was more experianced yes, but even with all his experiance he could not defeat old weezy Ben withou Ben letting him.

Ben sacrificed himself so the others could escape the Death Star.

While inexperianced Maul held of two jedi's, one of them a jedi master, the other almost a jedi knight. He killed the jedi master, and nearly killed Obi. (except that he got stupid, yes)

Sooooooooo, the end result is? The same, so how could he take someone who is a Jedi Master AND a Sith Lord? Would he still not be cocky?

We dont know Vader is more powerful, we know he has the potential to be very powerful. If he was so powerful, why did he not kill of Palpatine?

Why would he need to? I mean, he had pretty much free reign anyway, and he planned to if he could get Luke to join him, but that never happened.

oh and Vader had a lot of years to develop his experiance and force power. Maul was still young, an apprentice.

Why can't you give Vader the same benefit of the doubt that you give Maul? Admittedly, Lucas dropped the ball by not keeping Maul around, but I believe that he is still no match for Vader. I thi

 

By the RPG stats, Maul is considered a near Dark Jedi Master, level 12, apprentice is just a term to describe the Sith thats not the Master. IMO it should be a Master and the Champion, Maul and Vader would be Palpy's champion.

And we don't know if Maul would have used Stormtroopers or not. When he existed he had to be in hiding, had he been around during ANH he probably would have used them, he would be in his 50's then.

Maul nor Vader would use the force on eachother, both got a hard on when it came to fighting Jedi, they loved the challenge.

Again were comparing apples and oranges when we talk about them fighting eachother. As I said before if the moves that Maul used during TPM would have been popular in movies during the OT then Vader would definatley be using them. When we see Lord Maul fighting Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon he was 29 years old, according to one source, so he's very young, very agile, very powerful. When we see Vader fighting Kenobi and Luke he's in his 40's, hes not as young and agile as he used to be, he relies heavier upon the force to do his bidding for him, the Jedi are all but extinct so his lightsaber skills probably did get a little rusty. And because of the lame action we saw on ANH don't think Obi-Wan was weak, he was a Jedi Master at the time of his death, technology in the 70s wasn't as good as it was during the making of TPM too make the duel seem greater, and an old man played Kenobi.

Vader couldn't be stronger than Palpy, Palpy was stronger when Vader became a Sith, and he wouldn't let Vader advance beyond a certain point. Palpy was scared of other Force users, he felt threatened by them, he only used Maul and Vader to do his bidding for him. Maul nor Vader could take Palpy out maybe if they joined forces they could, but not individually, he would make them glow in the dark, he didn't get the thrill out of lightsaber duels that his champions did.


EDIT: BTW Vader did kill the Emperor, watch ROTJ. Which proved Vader's strength, Vader could break free of the Dark Side, Maul couldnt do it. Very few, save the strongest individuals can break the grip of the Dark Side, thats how strong it is.

 

The reason Palpy had the Jedi slaughtered in the first place is because they would be a threat to him, so it makes sense that he wouldn't want anyone more powerful than he as an underling. Additionally, if Palpy is the Master and Vader the apprentice, it seems to me that Palpy would only teach Vader (or Maul) what he wanted them to know, and save all the really juicy Dark Force stuff for himself. "Sure I'll teach ya how to choke a guy," and to himself whisphers, "But I ain't teaching ya how to make someone's head explode from a thousand light years away."

I agree. Vader is stronger, because he was able to break free of the Dark Side. A stronger person is able to resist temptation, (even if it means succumbing to it in the first place), and when Vader was given a choice to a.) killing the Emperor, or b.) watching his son fry, the choice became very clear to Anakin. In that one moment he realized how bad the choices he had made had been.

 

Vader didn't kill ALL the Jedi by himself, no. He did, however, help lead the act, along with Palpatine. Using stormtroopers or not, the deed was done.

As for Maul's force powers canceling-out Vader's, that sounds silly to me. Never has it been mentioned in ANY Star Wars RPG Book that I have read (and that is most of them by the way) and besides, the idea of it is silly. The only way it would work would be to use "Force Defense" I believe, but still difficult.

As for Vader killing Palpatine...like someone else asked, why? He had it made. He wanted to turn Luke to run the galaxy, and that is when he would have made his move, not before. Remember, "Always a Master and an Apprentice there are."

The armor that Vader wears, according to the Dark Side Sourcebook, is enhanced by Sith Alchemy. Like it or not, it explains alot about the abilities that the armor provided by itself and the abilities sustained by it.

On a side note, I read in one of the WotC Star Wars sourcebooks about the Skywalker lineage, and their affinity to the Force. Soemthing like they have an additional 5d6 (or something like that) to all rolls, above and beyond the bonuses given normally, when they spend Force Points. One word: filthy.

-Maj Odo-Taji