Pledge of Allegiance ruled unconstitutional

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Chris2, Jun 26, 2002.

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  1. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Any thoughts on this? I imagine the fundamentalists are going to have a field day with this; even though the bible itself actually is very strict on taking oaths...("Do not swear by anything...simply say "Yes or No".)


    Here's a link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020626/ap_on_re_us/pledge_of_allegiance
  2. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    *sigh* as expected, Fallwell's already ringing the news stations....
  3. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I believe that schools are required to allow students to choose whether or not they wish to recite the pledge...well, I may be wrong...but I hardly think that the pledge is unconstitutional if students are given the right to choose not to recite it.

    Or maybe I'm missing something (I was too lazy to read the article :p). But my school also offers a 'moment of silence' before the pledge, which gives students the choice of prayer and other things like that, which avoids that whole issue. So, why not do the same with the pledge?

    Just my two cents.
  4. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Just change the pledge to it's pre-Eisenhower text. Heck, I've been doing that for years.
  5. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    All during elementary and junior high we had the "Pledge", but around highschool we just had a flag ceremony where we would stand up and place our hands on our hearts and listen to a scratchy recording of a trumpet playing something.

    I think just have that. It works as well for patriotism. IMHO I think its nitpicky PC rearing its ugly head again.
  6. AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    I was never a fan of the pledge of allegiance......seemed like a sort of brainwashed chant when everyone did it during school.

    By the end of high school I just sat down and didn't do it.
  7. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    I agree completely with the ruling. "Under God" should not be part of the Pledge.
  8. TeeBee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I heard one of the judges said something to the effect that stating "under God" was comparable to stating "under Zeus". Huh?

    No. Maybe stating "under Allah" or "under Jesus", or even "under Satan" might be, but "under God"? I always thought 'God' was a generic term for a higher power that individual religions all have different names for.

    What a dip.

  9. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Hmm.

    I always thought it meant "Under Elvis".

    That's odd.

    Stupid Elvis haters!

    :p

    Just look at the quote in my sig. [face_plain]
  10. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    What about people who don't believe in God? Or people who are pantheistic?

    EDIT: Nothing prevents you from reciting the pledge, but what is at issue now is mandatory recitation of the pledge set forth by schools.

    EDIT 2: By mandatory I don't mean you HAVE to say it, but schools usually set a standard time when everyone recites the pledge, and when you don't you're kind of in a tough spot.
  11. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    Well, although he's translated often as "God"-the God of the bible and Jewish/Christian tradition is actually called Yahweh, Elohim, Jenovah, Dominus and mostly "The Lord" as well as Jesus Christ, Yeshua Messiah, or Christ Jesus. "God" is really just a translation to imply the universal and, to the believer, true nature of their god. In other religions texts, the name of the deity is also often translated as just "God". Check out the Krishnan holy books for instance.

  12. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    God = Spongebob squarepants.
  13. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. -- First Amendment, Constitution of the United States of America

    From the sound of it, it would seem to be unconstitutional not to allow the Pledge of Allegiance to be spoken in schools. Or prayer either, for that matter.

    AYBABTU?

  14. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    I completely agree, forcing students to recite an oath to the nation is unconstitutional. One of the things this country was founded on is not being forced to pledge your allegiance to a government. And bringing god into it makes it even worse. I dont believe in a god that meddles in the affairs of humans.


    And you know while we are at it get rid of the in god we trust crap too.
  15. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    There is no restriction on students reciting the prayer or the pledge at school, what is at issue is schools endorsing (and an almost de facto pressuring to perform) such an activity.
  16. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    I think everyone in the damn friggin world needs to take a damn pill and mellow out.

    Too many people b%&%Hing and complaining and sueing and shooting and hitting. and and awh hell. where's the comet. There is no emoticon for what I am feeling.

    [desertjedi_insane_face]
  17. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Does anyone know where to find the full text of this ruling? It's wording confuses me... the pledge itself is unconstitutional? As far as I am aware, the Pledge is a non-binding document/recitation and can't see how in itself can be unconstitutional...
  18. Jobo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    *pats DESERTJEDI on the head* *hug* S'okay, man. The world's evil. Anyway, on to my original reply, as Vaderbait said in the YJCC thread, if minorities don't like something, it's changed. But if I, not being a minority, don't like the change, I get labeled rascist [face_plain]
    _jOBO
  19. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
  20. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    I don't think anyone should be forced to say "Under God", because that is unconstitutional. It's basically saying that any religon except athiesm is the official state religion. They shouldn't be forced to say it at all, because that violates freedoms. As far as I know, Americans have the freedom to be anti-American (Freedom of expression, political opinion). Being forced to say the POA is a violation of that freedom. But, I don't think "Under God" should be removed just because it offends a few hardcore athiests.
  21. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    I sometimes wish I was born 20-30 years earlier.

    *sigh*


    Edit: caught A_T60's post

    Being forced to say the pledge may be considered wrong no matter what the wording is, if you want to get that technical. The words, 'under God', however is not an endorsement of any particular religion. Athiesm isn't a religion as far as I know.
  22. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Okay, here's my opinion on this ruling: while the spirit of the ruling may be something worth defending, it's wording is absolute trash. The pledge itself is unconstitutional? If anyone appeals and takes this to the Supreme Court, I can safely assume that there will be at least 7 justices that will strike this ruling down. This appeals court ruling violates the 1st amendment by making it unconstitutional to recite the pledge.
  23. Lord_Homer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 4
    This is one of the stupidest rulings I have ever seen! Students are given the right to choose whether to say the pledge or not! Also, what about currency! Our U.S. currency says, "In God We Trust" on it! Those are used in schools all the time, does anyone seem to care?! NO! How about the song, "God Bless America" does anyone have anythiong against that?! NO!

    *sigh* the thing s people do to get attention these days... *sighs*
  24. Darth was Mauled Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 4
    This decision is terrible. It will probably get overturned in the Supreme Court, because I know atleast 5 Justices will vote for overturning it.
  25. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    Our U.S. currency says, "In God We Trust" on it! Those are used in schools all the time, does anyone seem to care?! NO!

    Actually, I believe the good ( [face_devil] ) folks with the ACLU have the currency issue in their cross-hairs. I've heard it brought up once or twice before.

    Don't forget the Presidential swear-ins or those performed in the courts. They'll have to go as well.

    Again, *sigh*.
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