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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Plot Holes and Inconsistencies in the Prequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by janstett, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Then argue about the PT. Leave the OT out of it.
    Not seeing the double standard. Everyone knows I like the OT more than the PT. As you also do, so you say.
    Guess you missed the part where I point our several OT anomalies in that thread. Here and here and here.

    You've taken thread derailing to a new level here. Have never seen anyone post a huge wall of text from another thread in an unrelated section of the forums before. Just to point-score. Mike the Derailer we should start calling you. Hope you don't bring this thread down too. Maybe that's your goal [face_thinking]
     
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  2. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005


    I think I've had something similar.

    Can't get on so well with people who don't enjoy sour sweets.




    Yes, he does do that, Mike, doesn't he?



    Well, in that case, Mike is the proof it's possible to like one thing more than another, yet go without slandering that other thing every other post.


    You know why justice is often represented via the concept of balance, DD?

    I think you have some making up to do, yet...




    Sometimes, it needs to be done.

    Particularly for someone who seems to have really grown into their role as resident PT critic.

    Easy to get caught in double standards, Double---! Darth Downunder.
     
  3. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I think you're both conspiring to bring this thread down, given its subject. Refusing to stay on topic & sticking with your recent "fans not films" strategy. Too transparent to work. I hope.
     
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  4. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Probably, I did veer in that direction, my last couple of posts.

    Apologies. Let's let this thread return to its original purpose.
     
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  5. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    The problem of course with all of these things in any SW movie or any movie in general is that things work when they need to work at a certain time and not when they don't.

    Trying to come up with in-universe explanations can be fun but the question is how important is it really? These stories are not really about the fine details of the working of the machines or

    A saw a video where someone puts forward how ludicrous Starkiller Base and and it doesn't take much for anyone to completely pull it apart. The Death Star by comparison is an absolute work of narrative genius.

    Does it really matter so much though?

    It's all ludicrous on one level or another so I guess the thing to look for is some kind of consistency. Nothing really is made of how the Death Star works or even moves it just does. Starkiller on the other hand presents some quandries as they in one way explain too much and therefore too little at the same time.

    The whole captured on the Death Star sequence really doesn't work all that well from start to finish if you don't want it to. It's easy to pull it apart and ask what about this or that? I never really thought about it that much for years. The Empire is both really dumb but also really clever at the same time.

    As I said I never much thought about it until others said "Well what about this in the PT? Doesn't that show how bad they were?" Then I started responding. "You mean like when the same kind of thing happened in the OT?" Then they go on about how it's not the same at all. Why? Because they like that movie it seems.

    The odd thing about a thread like this where you have people who rather than talk about inconsistencies that exist in all the movies decide that they only exist in the PT and therefore try to make an "objective" case against them when it's simply not.

    What is interesting to me is that for all the remake of ANH that TFA is looking at all the things that JJ didn't use which is a lot of exposition on how things relate to each other which in turn can be used by the audience to explain some of which is going on.

    Depending on the person they might think that too much is explained or not enough and they are drawn to certain aspects of the story they want better explained.
     
  6. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Too bad you couldn't do the same in the OT thread, now could you...



    [/quote]

    I love both, but, do have a soft spot for the OT. However, if we are to be true to the comparison, TFA is my least favorite, by leaps and bounds, you don't see me in that forums now do you...

    Ahhh more intellectual dishonesty... what I said was...

    See the bolded part... it means something... Nice of you to cut that part out...

    Sorry, I just like to point out hypocrisy when I see it. You know... like when you tell someone there's no need to bring up issues about TFA because it's been 6 months now, and yet here you are complaining about issues of 15 year old movies. Or you making comments about how wrong it is to break the "films, not fan" rule, when we can make a book out of your posts where you broke that rule in the threads involving PT fans and TFA (as well as many other threads). Or how about just this thread where you want to keep any comments about the OT out, but, you couldn't follow that rule yourself could you in this threads counterpart...I could go on...

    As for getting a thread shut down? I am sure you are referring to the Kamino thread.. Just a point of fact about that thread. I contacted Seagoat, and asked him not to close the thread based on my actions, that if I was the soul agitator to take action against me and me only, and to not punish the whole community. Seagoat informed me that I was not the only one, there were "others" (see plural), and that he quoted me as the example for the lock reason, and not the only source...

    Why did I post the wall of text? As proof that you can be a decent contributor to a forum, that your continued snips and little digs here in the PT forum towards others is not needed, nor does it go unnoticed. That you should just stop telling people not to do what you continuously do...

    I have said it before, if you wish to have a private chat, with the mods, where grievances can be aired, so that this back and forth between the two of us can stop, I would be happy to do it....I am just waiting on you...!
     
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  7. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    There's no hypocrisy. The point you keep missing is one of relevance. That long post about TFA was in the future content thread. All I said was, it sounded like a blast from the past. The discussion of issues with these 15 year old movies belong in these exact forums. Just as issues with the OT belong in those forums & issues with TFA belong in that forum. Why can't you get this basic point?
    That doesn't interest me Mike. What I'd prefer is if we both post within the rules, stay on the topic of each thread & simply discuss that topic. If we do that there won't be a problem.
     
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  8. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012


    I am absolutely all for that Downunder! I realize that these back and forths, and my individual actions hurt participation in the PT forums. However, it is my belief, that your actions (ie calling peoples opinions thoughts, posts silly, ridiculous, and crazy among many other things) towards others have done so as well. I would like to see people participate, and I don't think they will if one of the major contributors responds to them by calling their opinions derogatory names.

    This has always been my point, to try and get some understanding out of you that many of us don't appreciate it (myself being the obvious most vocal about it). If you are willing to post within the rules, and move forward, I am happy with that!
     
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  9. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I very rarely do that. Only in a few extreme cases have I crossed that line. What's far more common is that I discuss in-universe matters. For example I'll often call a character's actions ridiculous or silly. As in Obi-Wan taking a one-man fighter to catch Jango. I find it hard to believe that anyone would take that personally. Even if they're arguing that his choice of ship is fine. That's not a breach of the rules & I can't see myself sanitizing my posts to that degree. Would make debates & discussions quite boring. People know how I conduct my conversations & believe it or not I get alot of positive feedback. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to ignore my posts. We don't all have to be liked by everyone. Nevertheless, I will consider & take your comments on board.
     
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  10. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012


    Insulting peoples opinions, posts, and such was just one example of many issues people have had with you here in this part of the forums.. Cryo has brought many others as well.

    Maybe you should be more self-aware. Rarely is not a word I would use if i were you. Just in the Kamino thread you did it to me once, another member once, and a third member (who by their own admission usually sided with you) took issue with your "implications" basically your tone. That was one thread.
    Against the Rules?

    Rule 8) Baiting or intentionally stirring up other users isn't allowed. Debates are fine, but argue with the point, not the person. Threads with no purpose other than flaming, subtle or otherwise, will be closed. It's important to remember, however, that a person disagreeing with your opinion is *not* trolling. Try to keep it civil even if you're sure the other person is wrong.

    When you label someones opinion ridiculous, silly, crazy etc etc... You have gone from arguing the point, to arguing with the individual on a personal level. Just as the rule states, disagreeing is fine, calling peoples opinions ridiculous, silly, crazy etc etc is not "keeping it civil"!!
     
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  11. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Derailment complete! Can't even remember the thread topic now. Does anyone know?
     
  12. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Yep

    And any posts beyond this should be about that. No more off topic
     
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  13. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    You forget Darth Maul's ship.
    It was bigger than a fighter but about half the size of the queens ship.
    And this must also have a hyperdrive as he can got to Tatooine and later to Naboo.


    But it can't be a real solar sail or else Dooku going to Coruscant would take years.

    And take Slave-One. Not a very big ship and it has a hyperdrive.
    And it is fast and quite agile. Plus it carries an impressive array of weapons.

    You again forget a ship, Vader's special TIE fighter in ANH. The DS blew up but Vader survived.
    If he didn't have a hyperdrive, he could not go anywhere. But he did leave and thus his ship needed to have a hyperdrive.

    [/QUOTE]


    But here is the thing.
    Hyperspace travel has been in use for at least 25 000 years in the SW galaxy. Since the Jedi have been the guardians of the Old Republic for over 1000 generations.
    So would there really be that much tech progression over 10-20 years?

    And we know that ships not much bigger than Obi-Wan can travel through hyperspace and given that the Jedi normally travel in two's, why wouldn't the Jedi order have ships that carries two people?

    And about tech progression, overall the PT seems more advanced than the OT. Like screens, displays, holograms, or weapons. The PT uses loads of missiles, they are never used in the OT.
    Handheld rapid fire weapons are in use in the PT but not in the OT.
    Droids with portable shields and they can fire through.
    So there seems to have been a tech regression.

    @Torib

    What evidence is there that they are faster or can go farther?
    The MF, an old ship, goes from Tatooine to Alderaan is less than an hour. At least how ANH makes it seem.
    And that didn't have any limitation to it's reach. One imperial officer said that if it went into hyperspace, it could be on the other side of the galaxy by now.

    It is likely that without it, the small ship can't go anywhere.

    But why was this ship designed?
    Is it a fighter? That is, does it have weapons and is it designed to be in battle and attack other ships or facilities?
    If yes, then why have these rings?
    If these fighters have to travel to get to the battle, then they arrive with those rings and those rings could then get destroyed. Leaving the fighters stranded.

    TIE's can't travel alone and are taken by carriers into battles. These carriers then pick them up.
    That would seem more practical for these ships.

    If it isn't a fighter, that it is not designed to be used in battle. Then why not have a slightly bigger ship that has it's own engine?
    The ring offers no advantage and is instead only a liability.

    But as I've said above, hyperspace travel is old tech in SW, they have been doing it for many millennia.
    So comparing it to airplanes which have been around for only a little over 100 years is not all that accurate.

    And we see evidence of ships not much bigger than these that have hyperspace engines, like Slave-One or Dooku's ship.

    And speaking about war. There had not been a large scale war for 1000 years. And Mace said that the Jedi are not soldiers. So they wouldn't normally be in space battles.
    So why have fighters? If their job is to go around as ambassadors, negotiators, investigators and the like. Why not have a slightly bigger ship that can get them to their goal unassisted? And that can take more than one person.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
  14. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014

    But here is the thing.
    Hyperspace travel has been in use for at least 25 000 years in the SW galaxy. Since the Jedi have been the guardians of the Old Republic for over 1000 generations.
    So would there really be that much tech progression over 10-20 years?

    And we know that ships not much bigger than Obi-Wan can travel through hyperspace and given that the Jedi normally travel in two's, why wouldn't the Jedi order have ships that carries two people?

    And about tech progression, overall the PT seems more advanced than the OT. Like screens, displays, holograms, or weapons. The PT uses loads of missiles, they are never used in the OT.
    Handheld rapid fire weapons are in use in the PT but not in the OT.
    Droids with portable shields and they can fire through.
    So there seems to have been a tech regression.

    @Torib

    What evidence is there that they are faster or can go farther?
    The MF, an old ship, goes from Tatooine to Alderaan is less than an hour. At least how ANH makes it seem.
    And that didn't have any limitation to it's reach. One imperial officer said that if it went into hyperspace, it could be on the other side of the galaxy by now.

    It is likely that without it, the small ship can't go anywhere.

    But why was this ship designed?
    Is it a fighter? That is, does it have weapons and is it designed to be in battle and attack other ships or facilities?
    If yes, then why have these rings?
    If these fighters have to travel to get to the battle, then they arrive with those rings and those rings could then get destroyed. Leaving the fighters stranded.

    TIE's can't travel alone and are taken by carriers into battles. These carriers then pick them up.
    That would seem more practical for these ships.

    If it isn't a fighter, that it is not designed to be used in battle. Then why not have a slightly bigger ship that has it's own engine?
    The ring offers no advantage and is instead only a liability.

    But as I've said above, hyperspace travel is old tech in SW, they have been doing it for many millenn
    So comparing it to airplanes which have been around for only a little over 100 years is not all that accurate.

    And we see evidence of ships not much bigger than these that have hyperspace engines, like Slave-One or Dooku's ship.

    And speaking about war. There had not been a large scale war for 1000 years. And Mace said that the Jedi are not soldiers. So they wouldn't normally be in space battles.
    So why have fighters? If their job is to go around as ambassadors, negotiators, investigators and the like. Why not have a slightly bigger ship that can get them to their goal unassisted? And that can take more than one person.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark[/quote]

    Maul's ship is big enough to fit a Hyperdrive engine though. It may be bigger than Obi-Wan, but it could still fit into Maul's ship.

    The Sailor is ambiguous I'll admit, it's probably not an accurate solar sail.

    Slave 1 is another example of a modified Millennium Falcon style ship, that has been upgraded on the black market with weapons.

    And Vader's ship doesn't need to have Hyperdrive. The Falcon gets to Bespin from Hoth without one. The Queen's ship gets from Naboo to Tatooine without one. And he could always call the Empire to pick him up.

    And where does the idea that Hyperdrive is an old technology come from? Nowhere in the films is it stated how old the tech is.

    Just because there hasn't been a large scale war doesn't make the galaxy completely safe. Jedi are law enforcers after all. We see countless criminal groups in the galaxy who the Jedi would need to be protected against.
     
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  15. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    It is an example of a ship smaller than the queens and yet has a hyperdrive.
    You said that the queens ship was the only one, I gave an other example and with smaller ship.
    Plus we have the ship that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon arrive in at the start. That also can travel in hyperspace.

    And where is it said that Slave-One has been upgraded on the black market?
    It is an example of a ship, not much bigger than Obi-Wans that have a hyperdrive.
    So the tech clearly exist to make small ships travel in hyperspace.
    And I find it unlikely that the republic doesn't have access to this, only criminals do.

    RE. TPM, wrong, their hyperdrive works but is leaking. So they can't go all the way to Coruscant.
    But they do jump to hyperspace.
    RE: ESB, these systems must be very close by since the MF can go between one to the other using sub-light engines and it not taking years. I doubt the empire has a base right next to Yavin.
    If Vader contacts the empire, the rebels could and would most likely pick it up and go after him.
    Taking out Vader would be a big win for them. So quite risky.

    Since the Jedi have been acting as the guardians of the old republic for 1000 generations and the old republic spans many systems, they must have had the means to travel between stars back then.
    And there is nothing that suggest that another type of drive has ever existed.
    Ergo Hyperdrive is really old.

    [/QUOTE]

    Those criminal groups could be the Huts yes? Who the Jedi don't bother with as they are outside the republic. The Jedi aren't cops, they are negotiators, ambassadors, peace keepers.
    And again, if the Jedi did engage in space battles, those rings are a liability as if they are destroyed, their ships are stuck.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  16. Torib

    Torib Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Samuel Vimes you seem to be suggesting that all hyperspace drives are equal, or near equal enough not to matter. This doesn't jive with Solo's remarks in ANH-- "Well, you can forget your troubles with those Imperial slugs. Told you I'd lose them." And we see by ROTS that the hyperspace rings have gone from two-engine to six-engine devices. Why add all those engines if it doesn't matter?

    As to your query about the purpose of Jedi fighters, yes, I think it is safe to say that they were designed as fighters capable of destroying other ships. The hyperspace rings are not such a great feature in a massive sprawling interstellar war, but they make sense in the context of a galaxy mostly at peace with little pockets of trouble--space piracy and so forth--arising here and there, in much the same way as seaplanes once made sense as a way to patrol the seas and skies, before the development of technology and the ongoing militarization of that time saw them supplanted by the much more efficient carrier-based planes.
     
  17. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    [​IMG]This is the size of a TPM era hyperdrive engine. It's about the size of 4 or 5 people across.

    This is a Jedi Starfighter:
    [​IMG]
    No room for an engine of that size, even if the ship is smaller, and thus doesn't need as much power to jump.

    Slave 1 notably does have room for one. As does the Republic frigate, and Maul's ship.

    Why can't sub-light travel have existed until recently. If the Falcon can travel between systems in a timeframe that can't be longer than a few weeks, it stands to reason that this mode of transport is functional. Therefore, Hyperdrive doesn't have to be that old.
     
  18. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Han also says "We'll be safe once we make the jump to Hyperspace." Implying that as soon as you jump, it becomes very hard to follow a ship.
    I don't know of any movie example where one ship has overtaken another in hyperspace.

    In TPM, the queens ship jumps to hyperspace and no TF ships try to follow them.
    In ESB the imperials try and calculate where the MF might have gone but that seemed a bit uncertain and they could be faced with going to many places.

    And travel times are often really fast. Tatooine to Alderaan, an hour if that. When Palpatine went to save Anakin, that was also very fast.
    How long did it take for Luke to go to Bespin from Dagobah? Or for Vaders ships to go from where ever they were at the start of ESB to Hoth?

    [/QUOTE]

    No the rings don't make sense from battle perspective, they are just a hindrance, not an advantage.
    If they are used to take the fighters to the battle, the fighters are at a disadvantage right when they arrive as they have to disengage first. And if there is a fight and what ever they are after jumps away. Then those fighters have to go back and rejoin their rings before they can go anywhere.

    And we know that these small fighters are still quite visible on scanners as Jango picks up Obi-Wans ship.

    And we see in TPM that carriers do exists, the TF ships. Which also had fighters.
    They are much better. They get the fighters where they need to go, they can act as repairs and refueling facility.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
  19. Torib

    Torib Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Samuel Vimes yes, I agree carriers are a much more efficient arrangement. But until the Clone Wars the Jedi did not have those kinds of huge militarized ships. Hyperspace rings are the kind of solution that makes sense when you have only a handful of ships and can't justify the cost of building and operating a big carrier.

    Even in the OT era it was by no means considered a no-brainer to put hyperdrives on fighters, as the Imperials--the faction with the most resources and newest ships at their disposal--chose to forgo them, presumably because the size and mass of a such a device inhibits maneuverability (and indeed we do see that Ties are faster and more agile than the larger x-wings and y-wings).
     
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  20. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015
    I don't mind the starfighter hyperdrive rings floating in space. Maybe powered down they blend in with all the other space detritus. Space is BIG and a relatively small object floating there isn't necessarily easy to spot. Nothing in SW indicates it has the insanely powerful level of "scanning" that Star Trek has, for instance. Visually they're an interesting idea, and that's more than enough for me in that instance. I don't think it qualifies as a plot hole, even if the object is a literal hole. Just a stylistic choice.
     
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  21. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    No it is the size of the hyperdrive in the queens ship.
    You can't from that say ALL hyperdrive engines are the same size.

    An engine in a 747 jet is a bit bigger than the engine in a small sports plane, and yet both can fly.



    [/QUOTE]

    Because using sub-light speed it would take over four years to go from Earth to out nearest star.
    And go across the galaxy would take over 100 000 years.
    In order to travel on a galactic scale, you must have speeds that exceed light speed.

    In ESB, the MF go from Hoth to Annoat to Bespin using sub light.
    Since this didn't take years the only explanation is that those systems are VERY close to each other, like light-weeks from each other. For a few systems this workaround is doable. For a whole galaxy, it isn't. Unless we assume that the SW galaxy is REALLY tiny. Like three light years across.

    So hyperdrive has existed for over 25 000 years.

    @Torib
    And why didn't they? Any proof that they didn't have those ships?
    That Obi-wan didn't use one is not evidence.

    We know the tech exists, we see it in TPM. And nothing indicated that these ships were of a totally new design.
    And the Jedi are funded by the republic/senate. They work for them.
    So why would the senate be so cheap and basically shoot the Jedi in the foot and hamstring them so that they can't do their job properly?

    We know that big wars have existed. 1000 years ago was a big one. And it seems that the Sith were overthrown and their tyranny brought to an end.
    Did smaller ships with hyperdrive exist then?
    If yes, why stop using them and make worse ships?

    The empire favored big ships, big everything. Intimidation was key.
    The TIE were probably cheap and disposable.
    Possibly the cost of building the DS put such a drain on their economy that this was another reason to build TIE's on the cheap.
    The rebels didn't have people to waste so they used more expensive ships.
    And they probably didn't have as many big capital ships.
    Likewise the Jedi wouldn't want to waste their people and would want better ships.

    In closing, other example, the Naboo fighters, are they capable in traveling in hyperspace?
    At the start of AotC we see one big Naboo ship plus several fighters arriving outside Coruscant.
    Padme is the pilot of one of them and she came from Naboo. So she was in that fighter the whole trip from Naboo. The big ship wasn't a carrier and so couldn't carry the smaller ships.
    So it seems that those small Naboo fighters used hyperspace to go to Coruscant.

    So here we seem to have an example of a small one man fighter that CAN travel in hyperspace.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  22. CIS Droid

    CIS Droid AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Sorry to interupt your well argued discussion, but if we look at the size of Obi Wans jedi fighter and the slave 1
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    We can see that it´s more than a little bigger compared to Obi Wan´s ship.

    Just wanted to point that out.
     
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  23. Torib

    Torib Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Samuel Vimes good point about the naboo starfighters. That does weaken my argument, if they do have hyperdrives. But it's hard to say--we never actually see them go into or emerge from hyperspace. Same with the refugee transport in AOTC. We know it goes from Coruscant to Naboo, but apparently it's a fairly long journey--the interior arrangements bring to mind a cruise ship more than an airliner--and we also never see it go to hyperspace. This is an area where I think Star Wars tends to blur the rules of the universe and simply do whatever happens to work well on screen. I mean, if you want to be literal about it, Bespin HAS to be in the same system as Hoth because we know the trip without a working hyperdrive didn't take a year or more, as it would with the realities of physics in our own universe. But the Hoth system is described as remote, and Han is surprised to find Bespin nearby. I don't buy for a second that he would have been literally in the same system all this time (or even a light years or two away) and never have looked at a map before. My own interpretation is that hyperspace is not such a binary thing, and that there is a wide variation, depending on the type of drive, in the speed of "hyperspace", and that perhaps even sublight engines are somehow capable of moving a ship from one system to another at a slower rate. I don't think the rules of Star Wars space travel really conform at all to our real-world understanding of space and the distance between stars and everything else. With this viewpoint the hyperspace ring or other large drives like that on the Queen's ship would be "Grade-A" drives capable of going quickly to any part of the galaxy, while the smaller drives aboard the naboo starfighters or the refugee transport would be more limited affairs.

    I disagree that Tie fighters are outright inferior to the rebel ships. We know Luke goes into the trench at full throttle, yet the Ties have no trouble closing the distance. The lack of a hyperdrive is a deliberate choice to help them perform better in battle, not simply a cost-cutting measure. That's my take on it.

    You're asking for proof the Jedi don't have a carrier before the clone wars? I guess I can't prove a negative, but there's about as much circumstantial evidence as you could ask for. Carriers are weapons of war, massive ships designed to project power far away. Yet we know that the Republic is not militarized, and that it has no real army and that the Jedi are peacekeepers, not soldiers or admirals.

    Another thing to consider with the hyperdrive question and the state of technology, is that we're used to the idea that technology always improves over time, but this is not always necessarily so. Even if the Sith wars of a thousand years before did involve huge fleets of hyperspace capable ships battling each other, (which may or may not have been the case) there is no reason to assume a lot of that knowledge wouldn't be lost after the galaxy demilitarized. For example, if the US navy were to stop building aircraft carriers for say even a few dozen years, most of the institutional knowledge that has been built up over decades, all the little details of what works and what doesn't work and why, would be lost (you can have the blueprints and everything but that can only take you so far without real knowledge derived from experience). Look at China's nascent efforts to develop its first carrier force--they probably have all the blueprints they could use, from both Russian and American sources I imagine, yet they felt the need to build an entire mock carrier on dry land somewhere to practice with, before they tried to do the real thing, and they've been working toward this goal for many, many years. Another example of this sort of thing would be the Saturn V rockets that took our astronauts to the moon almost 50 years ago. No one knows how to build them anymore--NASA somehow managed to lose the plans somewhere, but even if they did still exist, they would probably call for all sorts of parts that are no longer manufactured. It wpuld be more viable to simply design a new rocket from scratch, even if that means you're only re-doing the same thing that was done fifty years before. For a galaxy that hasn't had a real war for a thousand years, why wouldn't you expect there to be hurdles along the way to developing effective war-ships again?
     
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  24. CIS Droid

    CIS Droid AOTC 20th Anniversary Banner Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Doesnt the AOTC Naboo star fighters travel together with the J-type diplomatic barge? We never see it on screen, since the ship has already left hyperspace by the time of the opening of AOTC, but thats what i´ve always assumed.

    This is legends and not canon, but in the lower right corner it explains how i believe the n1 star fighters travel through hyperspace.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Torib

    Torib Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2016
    CIS Droid nice find! That makes a lot more sense to me than the Naboo fighters having their own hyperdrive.
     
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