PT Plot Holes and Inconsistencies in the Prequel Trilogy

That's the thing, he is stronger now & he can quite easily save her. With his mother all he saw was that she was in pain. Nothing else. Now with Padme he has clearer visions & sees more detail. He now has stronger powers of clairvoyance, which should enable him to save her. The incident he sees has her die while she's giving birth. Also Obi-Wan is there with her helping her through it. What's more, unlike with his mother he's with Padme while she's perfectly healthy. The situation is far more in his control & he has far more information. In his vision he sees only Obi-Wan there & he's telling Padme to "hold on" & "don't give up". There's nothing in the vision that indicates she dies because of childbirth. Frankly it should look to Anakin that some kind of accident occurs & Padme is injured. Surely that's his most likely conclusion. It explains why Obi-Wan is there & he is not. It suggests that Obi will be close to her when the incident happens which is why he's present for the emergency birth. It's very hard to believe that in a GFFA women often die in childbirth in a hospital for no other reasons. This isn't the caveman days. Obi-Wan's presence, his dialogue to her, the absence of Anakin or anyone else attending to Padme all point towards an accident situation. These are the problems with allowing Anakin to see so much in those visions. He should be simply doing what he can to avoid the incident that would see that scenario involving Obi-Wan play out. And it would've worked. He goes away somewhere with her until after the birth & all is fine. Lucas should've kept Anakin's visions vague & devoid of detail like in AotC.

 

Where is this place where accidents don't occur ?

 

I'll say the vision is pretty vague compared to the one in TFA where we see clear images of what's going on. It doesn't give her exact location, it doesn't say when it happens, and most importantly it doesn't give the circumstances of the "incident". Why is Obi-Wan with her? Where is he? All information he has is that Padme will die in the near future which reminds him of what happened to his mother and makes him more desperate to find a quick solution. What about Palpatine? You don't think he has contingency plans in case things don't go according to his plans?

 

"Always in motion is the future." A lot of these "plot holes" some people want to see are due to them not being willing to see the bigger picture. Instead they take everything at face value and in a very rigid way. They want the characters to be perfect and always capable of handling any situation with complete control, ala a certain character from the Disney movies. But the fact is that humans aren't realistically always able to think and act rationally, especially under great stress. As George put it, Star Wars is about human frailties, not about monsters and spaceships.

 

Visions are also very easily misinterpreted like we see in both trilogies.

 

An inconsistency would be Anakin going from wanting to be all powerful to not caring about power. Anakin thinking that the solution to his problem is taking to a hospital isn't an inconsistency, nor a plot hole.

Anakin is stronger, but he's not all powerful. He has not achieved his goal of stopping people from dying. Ergo, he wants the power to do that. And how is it hard to believe that women can die in the GFFA, in childbirth, when that very thing happens? Hell, women still die or come close to it. Hell, people die in hospitals from medication mix-ups, surgeons leaving stuff in people, reactions to the anesthetics, etc.

 

I disagree. His ability to see future events in visions developed to give him the ability to avoid Padme's death, thereby stopping her from dying. Unfortunately he was too thick to work through the clues & information the visions gave him & come up with a plan. He should've told Padme all of the details he saw. She'd already suggested she go to Naboo well ahead of the birth. She was onto a solution already, let alone knowing about a bizarre fatal birth incident involving Obi-Wan of all people. She would've been in hyperspace en route to Naboo before Anakin finished explaining it all.

It's easy to believe that it's possible but very difficult to believe that it's common or likely. Without any separate incident/injury added. That must be far far less common than accidents & injuries. Which would surely be his first conclusion based on what he sees, with Obi-Wan the only person he sees there coaching her thorough it as she dies.

Pretty hard to suffer a life-threatening incident or injury while in Theed Private Hospital, well ahead of the birth. Speaking of wanting guarantees, what sort of guarantee does Palpatine's half-assed story about some supposed immortality spell represent?

 

Yeah, that is probably what Anakin should have done, but that's the point, there would be no story without a protagonist's tragic flaw.

Besides, I think Anakin sees Padme's death as a sure thing that can't be helped by medical science. And her death turns out to be partly supernatural after all. Confirming his fears and desperation, despite the paradox that in trying to prevent it he brings it about.

 

I get what it should all mean in-universe. I'm critical of how it was presented.

 

Sounds very good written like that. So Padme dies in his visions, and in the second one there's Obi-Wan. Where does Padme die? Is there anyone else around her? We don't know because the visions are... Well, vague. She could die anywhere so running away from Obi-Wan could be a solution. But always in motion the future is. In his first vision Obi-Wan was not there, now he is. If they decide to leave, who knows, visions may change. She may still die, without Obi-Wan next to her.

Funny. But no.

No, he isn't. And there were two visions, they were different and he saw nothing except Padme in both and Obi-Wan in the second.

Yes, Palpatine knows basically everything that's going on in ROTS so he successfully manipulates Anakin by allowing him the knowledge of the powers the Jedi can't provide him. Anakin turned Palpatine to the Council, wanted to save him so he could teach him how to save Padme and when he disabled Windu so Palpatine could kill him, Palpatine then admits him he doesn't know that power. By then it was too late to change minds, but he'll help him learn it.

Again, this sounds very good. But, as I said, the visions changed. His first one was while he was in bed, next to her. The second one came after Obi-Wan visited Padme, so things changed. Had she left to Naboo, Anakin may have had another one.

The whole running away fan-fiction is standing on very weak legs. Yes, Anakin wants to save his wife, but in ROTS he's been appointed in the Jedi Council as a chancellor's personal representative, he's been tasked by the Council to spy on that same chancellor, they all manipulate him and that made him feel lost. He wants to be in the Council, he's loyal to Palpatine, he wants more. He believes his powers can save Padme. His idea was not to avoid death, but to prevent it, as weird as that may sound.

 

So Anakin sees his mother dying, he's not there. Doesn't respond right away, gets there too late to prevent the ordeal that takes her life.

Couple of years later he sees Padme dying, he's not there. Sees another vision of Padme dying
Obi-Wan is there but Anakin is not.

Anakin's conclusion - he needs to be able to restore people to life. Not to respond to his foresight and be present at the people he loves sides where he might prevent their death

That's demented. Not great writing if someone's supposed to be good but turns bad. More like tardy and turns even more stupid.

 

Who's to say she won't die even if he's there with her? Both visions deal with death and Anakin's inability to accept it. Just because because you don't like the execution doesn't mean it's inconsistent with what the movies established about his character.

 

The point is that Padme will die from coplications during chilbirth and nothing can be done medically to reverse that, or so Anakin believes.

 

She's in a hospital when she dies. It doesn't stop her from dying. Anakin knows that from his vision. What he doesn't know is that his desire to save her is what kills her. That's the part you keep overlooking. And she doesn't believe that she will die, much less that there is a danger to the child. That's why she has forgotten all about it when he brings it up again after Obi-wan has left for Utapau. That's why she brushes off his concerns. She's not worried about dying in childbirth. She doesn't believe it will happen. The only thing that makes sense to Anakin is to use the Force to save her. To stop her from dying where medical science fails.

Just because Obi-wan is there doesn't mean anything other than he's there. It doesn't mean that it is an accident that kills her. It just means that she's dying in childbirth. Meaning that there's something wrong that cannot be fixed and he believes that the Force can fix it.

How it is hard to suffer an injury in a hospital on Theed? What if the Separatists attack Naboo? What if Darth Sidious sends Cad Bane there to finish her off? What if a nurse screws up and injects her with a lethal dose of medication? What if the doctor leaves his watch inside of her? Not so safe now.

Correct. He has to accept that people will die in his life. They will come and go and as Lucas said, he has trouble accepting that. That's why when she wants to leave him, he becomes upset at her. He did all this for her and she's ungrateful.

 

Why would he believe that? You mean to say that she dies from inevitable "complications" during childbirth, which would happen anywhere no matter what, & it's just a coincidence that she's in a situation where Obi-Wan is the only person he sees attending to her as she dies?? That's ridiculously far-fetched. Added to that is that Obi-Wan isn't even supposed to know about the pregnancy. He's Anakin's friend & colleague, not Padme's. Yes they're on friendly terms but let's not try to pretend they're such close BFF's that Padme would invite him to be standing by her side as she gives birth! Come on. Also Anakin's only other experience with this was his mother. He knows she died simply due to injuries sustained. From a deadly situation, not from some inevitable supernatural event. He just couldn't get to her in time. In this case he's with Padme & she's perfectly healthy.

It's not that he's there, it's what it means that he's there. A planned normal birth where Padme is in hospital well ahead of the delivery does not involve her screaming out for Anakin with Obi-Wan of all people standing over her telling her to hold on & not give up as she dies. That's not a likely or realistic scenario for that normal planned birth situation. Which was Anakin's clue that what he's seeing here is the result of an accident/emergency situation. Probably involving an injury. This is so obvious & simple. Which is what makes Anakin look so damned foolish.

You should stop making things up. Here's what Anakin sees:



I'm not seeing any detail that screams hospital. Pls enlighten us as to how this tells Anakin anything about the environment she's in. That could be on the side of a road for all he knows. What it looks like is a completely unplanned & unexpected emergency. Obi-Wan the midwife does not feature in their regular birthing plans. A doctor, a nurse, one of her handmaidens, her parents, her sister sure. Obi-Wan - no. You're wasting your time pretending otherwise.

Ridiculous. Shmi was killed by Sandpeople. There was nothing inevitable about it, if he'd been with her ahead of time. What he sees above involving Obi-Wan is infinitely less likely to occur if Padme is taken across the galaxy & admitted into a facility well ahead of the birth. The odds of her being fine are light years greater than the chances of learning some Dark Side magic that he's not even sure exists. Including Obi-Wan in the visions was too much off a tip-off to Anakin about Padme finding herself in a deadly situation. It was unnecessary & raises the obvious question of why he didn't try to avoid that situation before taking the kill everybody & turn evil option.

 

But why are there complications during childbirth? And why is Anakin not there while she's experiencing them? Are they something he can prevent by acting quickly regarding Padme's upcoming labour?

Anakin taking measures to prevent those complications, in the same way that going to Tatooine sooner might have prevented or shortened the ordeal, might have changed that future. That's the logical, practical solution. Just his presence, instead of being absent like in his vision, means that future is altered.

It's like having the foresight to see yourself missing a bus. But instead of ensuring that you get there in time catch it, you decide to waste time trying to discover how to make the bus come back to you. Nonsense.

 

One thing this whole 'make sure Padme's checked into a hospital for the inevitable birth' misses, is that Padme has a life too. She has an important job as senator, which she presumably doesn't want to miss by being shuttled halfway accross the galaxy to sit in bed for weeks on end, because her husband had a bad dream. To Anakin, the dreams are a inevitable portent of doom, but Padme seems to not be too bothered, preferring to live in the real world.

Presumably Padme already has arrangements for the birth, she does live on the richest planet in the galaxy, which is presumably the one with the best healthcare too. She also gives birth in a hospital surrounded by doctors too.

If Anakin does take her to Naboo that also ruins both their lives, neither would be able to do their jobs, Anakin would probably be discovered with his wife (why else would he be obsessed enough to basically elope). Padme is not expecting to go into labour that soon in the future, she's obviously well enough to go to the senate a day or two before the birth.

And Anakin is in the first vision, Padme is calling out to him.

It's only after Anakin is told about the power to stop death that Obi-Wan appears in the visions, a hint that he's started down the path that separates himself and Padme. Anakin doesn't see that though, it just spurs him to get the powers more, to prevent the Obi-Wan outcome.

 

Imagine if Padme's doctor confessed that he too had clairvoyance, specifically regarding medical emergencies, and could see the future where something happens that means that she dies in childbirth and the father is not there, and so he recommends immediate medical supervision and care, and the father's presence in order to at least avert the certain future that he sees unless the conditions in it are altered.

Remember that the death that Anakin sees is imminent. Padme is heavily pregnant. It's an imminent danger. Do you think Padme would just say "Oh well. That's too bad that I and probably my babies are going to die, but I've got my life to live right now. I don't care if making provision now might mean I don't die in the near future and I can go on living, and being a wife and a mother and senator. What's important is that I am a senator right now and I do nothing else, include protect mine and my unborn children's lives."

Imagine if the ambulance or Fire service had significantly slow response times and people died because they weren't reached in time, even when they were told about the emergency definitely happening before it had actually happened. Do you think it would be accepted if those services, instead of improving their response time, devoted all their energy into being able to bring people back to life that they failed to reach in time? Or they said, hey, we've got lives to live, We're not going to stop living our lives and make necessary and practical provisions.


It's pretty straightforward.

Anakin sees his mother's future. He does not respond right away. Eventually he goes to Tatooine but only in time to see his mother die from what had happened in the meantime. He did nothing until it was too late.

So the next time he sees Padme's near future where they are dying in agony. but this time he sees it soon enough to actually influence the course of events that leads to that death.

The possible solution is obvious, and it's not using that time to pursue some bizarre notion that he should be able to return the people to life that he was tardy in going to protect from the foretold ordeal that takes their lives.

 

And Anakin takes Padme to a doctor, the doctor sees nothing obviously wrong, and sends her home.

Because it's only Anakin's force choke or her losing the will to live over the events of ROTS that leads to her death.

Seriously, in a universe with Space wizards, is it so crazy for Anakin to want a magical solution to his problems.

 

Doctor sends her home? Ok. If that's the case then Anakin realises (if he does know already, considering it was his mother's violent death that he foresaw) it's not a latent medical condition but an event that he could prevent (like his mother's ordeal) that leads to Padme's suffering. And is more attentive to what is happening rather than wasting time and committing grave crimes in order to have the power to reverse the effects of that event.

I would presume that supposedly wise space wizards with the ability to see the future would take the obvious route of trying to prevent the future. Not turning into a kill crazy maniac on someone else's behalf in order to pursue a vague and oblique promise of powers to enable them to reverse the future after it happens.

With the knowledge that Anakin has, the idea that killing all his friends and undermining democracy would ensure Padme's health and happiness is utterly perverse. It's the mentality of someone who, it would be obvious to everyone by then, is a psychopathic loose cannon.

 

A theory that's completely undermined by Padme already wanting to go to Naboo well ahead of the birth. Her crucially important reasons for that are getting the baby's room ready, in just the right spot down by the lake . So yeah, I'm pretty sure if Anakin explains the situation to her, including the incident his visions hint at which involve Obi-Wan she'd be on a ship within days.

Exactly. She tells Anakin they'll have the kid on Naboo in the lake country where no one will know. Where they'll be safe. So what the hell would Obi-Wan be doing there?? Standing over her helping her through the birth as she's dying? He wouldn't be. The visions point to something going drastically wrong & Padme not getting to that spot in the lake area of Naboo. Surrounded by medical staff & the Amidala family. This is what Anakin should be making sure happens. It's simple.

 

The Jedi Masters have the best healthcare in the galaxy. Anakin was might pissed when they denied him a seat on the council just to keep premiums down. Part of the reason their premiums are so low is it doesn't cover any form of child birth. Why would it?

 

Obi-wan is good friends with Padme and has been for years. That's why she was glad to see them when they re-entered her life in AOTC and why Obi-wan comes to her about Anakin, before leaving for Utapau. He even says that they're good friends.

OBI-WAN: "Padme, I'm not telling the Council about any of this. I ... I hope I didn't upset you. We're all friends, I care about both of you . . . "

Anakin knows that it is a hospital. He just doesn't know where. There is nothing made up about it. And as to Obi-wan being there, again, it could be a situation where he is the only one who is there to help her. His being there isn't an issue. Obi-wan can show up at any time and take her to a hospital to be cared for. Anakin isn't thinking, "I'm not there, therefore I must be." He's thinking, "She's going to die and nothing can stop that unless I figure out how to do it."

Ridiculous? How is that ridiculous? Anakin doesn't know what causes Padme to die, other than in childbirth. He doesn't know that Tusken Raiders has his mother until he arrives at the farm and is told of what happened. For all Anakin knows, Padme might have been poisoned by Cad Bane or another assassin. A poison that has no cure. Likewise, she could be just fine until she gives birth and then unexpected complications set in. That happens all the time in real life. WWE wrestler Brie Bella gave birth to her daughter earlier this year and was medically fine, until an unexpected complication set in that she had to have her daughter removed via c-section, after hours of being in labor. Being in a hospital a month early wouldn't prevent that. And we know that she dies while a hospital from a broken heart, an act that could not be prevented by being in a hospital.

The bottom line is that she will die. Be it in childbirth, or some other means. He's afraid to lose her. That is what drives him to the dark side. The fear of loss. And how is he supposed to get her to go to a hospital early, when she doesn't believe that she needs to camp out in a hospital? Smack her around? Threaten her?

Anakin doesn't know what it is, that's the point. She can be sent home and then when labor hits, something happens and she dies from unforeseen complications. **** happens like that all the time. When she does die, she's in a hospital and yet, the doctors can't save her. Meanwhile, if he had learned how to stop people from dying by manipulating the Midichlorians, she'd still be alive.

Anakin doesn't know what will kill her. Maybe it's the Jedi who cause her death when they overthrow Palpatine and try to take control of the Senate, because they suspect that she supports Palpatine and thus would side against the Jedi. Anakin is trying to prevent the future by gaining the power to stop her from dying and that hinges on becoming a Sith Lord, the most powerful of all.

That was before Palpatine was given more political powers that results in Padme working with Bail and Mon Mothma to stop him. She never brings up leaving again until he's turned to the dark side. She's willing to stay and fight politically, rather than shirk from her duty.

Why wouldn't Obi-wan be there? Why wouldn't she contact him for help because she needs his help. Maybe Anakin is dead. Maybe they got separated and she contacts Obi-wan because he's closer and they're friends.

 

You keep saying Anakin doesn't know as if that's a firm basis for ignoring his wife's safety and pursuing an utterly demented quest for the power of death reversal, when his previous experience should have taught him to do what felt right at that time (going quickly to his mother's aid might have prevented the ordeal that took her life). Not betray his friends and everything he and they stood for in order to offset his inattentiveness.

 

Oh please. There's friends & then there are people so close to a woman that she'd have them standing next to her as she experiences the incredibly personal & intimate event of childbirth. Obi-Wan is firmly in the former category. There's nothing you can say that convincingly portrays a normal planned situation which sees Obi-Wan acting as her midwife as she's dying. There would be a list of probably 100 people who'd be more likely to be in that position. Starting with medical staff, then Anakin, then her handmaidens & also the Amidalas if she has the birth on Naboo, as she said she plans to. In fact her family would likely come to Coruscant for the birth also. Those are the people Anakin can expect to see in the vision if the birth was a perfectly normal planned one where Padme is uninjured & is in hospital well in time. Without doubt, Obi-Wan fulfilling that role points to an unplanned emergency situation. Which is exactly what it turns out to be bcs Anakin didn't act on the clues within the vision & get her light years away from anywhere Obi-Wan & the Jedi are likely to be.

Prove it. Where in the movie, particularly in the visions is that information made known?

No, that's not what his visions indicate. Like with his mother, Padme is in a fatal situation. One that like his mother, can be avoided - if she's in a different place & in a completely different situation. This isn't Final Destination. Padme isn't "marked for death" no matter what. His mother wasn't either, if only Anakin had acted to help her sooner. Given Anakin had witnessed that event with his mother, there's no reason for him to think that supernatural immortality spells are the only answer when he's with his wife & she's perfectly healthy. Bottom line is, the visions did a terrible job of making us think she inevitably dies because of childbirth. Which is the only way Anakin's decision makes sense.