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PT Plot Holes and Inconsistencies in the Prequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by janstett, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    This isn't a fluff. It's the simplest of dialogue, and it works fine.

    What Watto wins is the Podrace winnings, minus the cost of the parts. That's his profit.

    Podrace winnings - Parts cost = Watto's profit

    There's no other way this can be interpreted, so I don't know why you can't grasp this.
     
  2. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    100% correct. Problem is QG doesn't say the cost of the parts will be deducted from Watto's profit. He says it'll be deducted from the winnings. Wrong. If this happened Watto would pay for the parts twice. Once when or if he originally bought them, & then again when he must deduct that cost from the winnings. That's wrong. Watto has to keep all of the winnings. Any prior cost of the parts does not affect the winnings at all.

    Correct: "Your profit will be all of the winnings minus the cost of the parts I need"
    Incorrect: "You keep all of the winnings minus the cost of the parts I need".
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  3. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    But there's no practical difference between the two statements. The cost of the parts comes out of Watto's finances. Watto gains the winnings from the Podrace into his finances.

    Ergo, Watto keeps all of the winnings, minus the cost of the parts.

    It's not incorrect.
     
  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Yes it is. The cost of the parts "came out of Watto's finances" long ago. Leaving him just with the parts. So the parts are all he loses. Irrespective of that, Watto receives all of the winnings. Every last cent of it. QG's statement describes Watto not getting all of the winnings. So there is a practical difference between what QG says & what will happen. The dialogue is wrong, despite the fact that we can use common sense & work out what he means.
     
  5. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    No, it's not wrong. Watto gets the winnings minus the cost of the parts!

    Is it so hard to actually listen to what they said. That's explicit right there, Watto does not get all of the money. He gets the winnings, but loses the parts, necessitating a loss of the total profit.

    When Watto bought the parts (and presuming he did buy them, not steal or scavenge), he exchanged money for the parts. He still had the same 'value' as before. When he gives the parts to Qui-Gon, free of charge, he thus loses the equivalent 'value'. The cost of the parts is taken away.

    Edit: I mean, we see Qui-Gon get the parts, and Anakin wins, therefore Watto gets the winnings, so the dialogue can't be wrong because it's directly supported by the film.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  6. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Wrong, wrong, wrong [face_shame_on_you]

    You're mounting a valiant effort to try to make this work, but ultimately it's a doomed mission.
     
  7. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    How is that wrong? Qui-Gon states it plainly: "all the winnings, minus the cost of the parts". So, not all the money.
     
  8. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    This shows just how bad the dialogue is. People are confused. How can Watto not get all of the winnings? Is he going to invent a cost figure, tell that to QG & hand him that cash, then QG hands it back immediately & gets the parts?? We’ve taken the train to Crazy Town again 8-}
     
  9. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Um no, Watto gets all the money from the podrace, gives the parts to Qui-Gon, therefore has lost the cost of those parts.

    Nothing complicated about it. If people are confused, then they can't comprehend simple dialogue.
     
  10. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    You’re contradicting yourself. You said he doesn’t get all of the money, now you’re saying he does.
    The cost of the parts, or rather the value of the parts, comes off his profit on the deal. It doesn’t reduce the winnings/the amount of money he receives.
     
  11. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Yeah, and Qui-Gon is converting the parts into their base cost in the conversation, which makes sense, as they're discussing the amount Watto will win. He wins all the podrace money. Qui-Gon gets the parts, so Watto loses the parts money.

    Therefore, what Qui-Gon says is 100% accurate.

    Nothing I said contradicts that.

    Say the podrace winnings are £20,000. Wattoo gets that money, thus all the winnings. Say the parts are worth £2000. Watto gives those to Qui-Gon, thus depriving him of the £2000 he would of got if he's sold the parts.

    So Watto's net is £18,000. It still doesn't make what Qui-Gon said false.
     
  12. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    No he mentions the proportion of the winnings Watto gets to keep. Not all of it. He doesn’t get to keep an amount equal to the cost of the parts. QG must get that. That’s the literal reading of his words.
    There is no parts money. Just parts. For some reason QG wants the cost of the parts to come out of the winnings. You’ve misread this whole thing.
    It does bcs he refers to the split of the winnings, not Watto’s profit.
     
  13. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    They're talking about what money Watto will get in that scene. He gets the winnings, minus the cost of the parts. I don't know how much clearer that can be.

    Qui-Gon translates the parts to money, to show what Watto's profit will be.

    This isn't a contradiction, what Qui-Gon says is accurate.

    You can't claim this is wrong, when everything we see in the film supports Qui-Gon's line.

    Besides, it's just one line anyway.
     
  14. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    It is, & as usual we’ve given it way too much attention. It’s wrong bcs he mentions the winnings & how much of it Watto gets to keep.
     
  15. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    DD I gotta say you remain the person most determined to be confused by something they aren't confused by .=D=
     
  16. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    I've never heard about anyone being confused by that, not even kids. We're not talking about Palpatine's schemes here, after all. I think @Darth Downunder deserves a special prize [face_laugh]
     
    Darth Downunder likes this.
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  18. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Well it was supposed to be just an observation. Pointing out one minor error in the dialogue. Bcs some people can't concede even the slightest mistake in these movies it turns into a long debate.
    It's not in the least bit confusing. It's a simple error but we all know what was meant. Mind you those defending it all have different versions to explain it, so I guess there is a bit of confusion ;)
     
  19. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    It's not an error. The point is that Watto will be paid for his parts through the winnings. Anakin is only added as part of the bet, because of the value he has as a racer which is what Watto thinks Qui-gon wants with him. The Queen's ship is added because it can be sold, with replacement parts, for a pretty penny to Jabba or Gardulla. The parts on their own aren't worth much for betting. That's why Qui-gon offers up the cash prize and the idea of deducting from the winnings to pay for it, because Watto wants money for them. And as to getting the parts in the first place, Watto had Anakin obtain them from the Jawas, which included payment.
     
  20. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Anakin was not part of the bet at this point. None of what you’ve described matters. What matters is: Watto keeps all of the winnings, QG gets the parts. It should be the simplest deal ever. No spin or alternate way of explaining this can change the fact that Watto keeps all winnings.
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    You're missing a few things.

    WATTO: "No money, no parts! No deal! And no one else has a T-14 hyperdrive, I promise you that."


    WATTO: "The boy tells me you wanta sponsor him in a race. You can’t afford parts. How can you do this? Not on Republic credits, I think."

    QUI-GON: "My ship will be the entry fee."

    WATTO: "Not bad… not bad… a Nubian."

    QUI-GON: "It’s in good order, except for the parts we need."

    Watto tells Qui-gon that he will only give up the parts for cash. Not on a mere wager. That's why he tells him that he will get to keep the winnings, but he can deduct from the winnings to pay for the parts He wants to be paid for the parts and that's how it is done. He's not going to hand those parts over for free. Keeping the winnings means keeping the winnings. He has no reason to trade him the parts as he gets nothing for them. Having a business and gambling are separate things. By doing it this way, Qui-gon can prove that the parts were paid for and not be accused of stealing as he can get a receipt proving that they're paid for.

    Either way, you're making a big deal out of nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  22. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    That's bcs QG offered money that Watto couldn't use. He didn't say he needs Tatooine currency necessarily. Just "something more real". Meaning local money or items of value.
    No bcs a slave is worth far more than hyperdrive parts. Yet Watto was prepared to give Anakin up not for money but for a podracer. Your "cash only" theory doesn't hold up. Not that it matters because...
    Absurd & unnecessary. Watto gets to keep all of the winnings. How he enters this transaction in his books is irrelevant, & also none of QG's concern. Whichever way it's recorded, Watto keeps all of the winnings. This line is incorrect:

    "If we win you keep all the winnings minus the cost of the parts I need".

    As I mentioned earlier, perhaps QG should've said:

    "Your profit will be all of the winnings minus the cost of the parts I need"
    Come on now. This is the wild west. Bartering, deals & wagers are commonplace. Did QG have a receipt for the Anakin bet?
    If having a discussion is a big deal then we're both equally guilty.
     
  23. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Qui-Gon also added "minus the cost of the parts I need" which seems pretty clear to me. Where is the plot hole in that sentence exactly?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Watto keeps all the winnings minus the cost of the parts Qui-Gon needs. The subtracted part goes into Qui-Gon’s pocket. He keeps the money there - until he uses it to pay for the parts he needs.
    That’s how it went down and that’s why Qui-Gon’s choice of words was entirely accurate ;)
     
    Darth Downunder likes this.
  25. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Local money=Tatooine currency. Qui-gon has nothing else to trade of value except the shp.

    No. First, Qui-gon offers up the Queen's ship as part of the entry fee and wager, as it is the only way to get things going. Second, this is what Watto and Qui-gon say about raising the stakes.

    WATTO: "I'm betting heavily on Sebulba."

    QUI-GON: "I'll take that bet."

    WATTO: "What?"

    QUI-GON: 'I'll wager my new racing pod against, say... the boy and his mother."

    WATTO: "No pod is worth two slaves, not by a long shot."

    QUI-GON: "The boy, then."

    He was going to give up Anakin for the pod and the ship, on top of getting to keep the winnings.

    The point is that Watto is getting paid for the parts, since the hyperdrive is not part of the wager. Qui-gon chooses not to wager for the hyperdrive, he's wagering for the money from those winnings to pay for the hyperdrive.

    You're arguing over semantics, because the dialogue is correct either way.

    So are receipts, even in the wild west. The receipt for Anakin was shutting off the explosive charge implanted in his body.

    Making a big deal about a single sentence, because it doesn't sound right to you, is a big deal over nothing. I can't say what I really think about it.
     
    Jango723 likes this.