ST Plot holes and lost exposition - real issues or not?

Plus Luke's Lightsaber no doubt! Maybe Finn suffers from short term memory lost after cleaning so many Imperial toilets. They do use some harsh chemicals!

 

If you really do think about it though it makes sense as to why it wasn't included in VII. It wouldn't have fit anywhere really. I guarantee either in the next crawl or early on in the film there will be a scene or two talking about what the costs were of starkiller.

 

The Reconnaissance team.
I kind of lost track of them but... why not send them to blow up part of the weapon?
Or at least have Han sneak into the planet because the team helped.
Going in alone with 2 other people is crazy. In ANH there was an excuse of being dragged in but this time they went in almost solo.....ha!

In Endor they went in with a full shuttle. They should've done the same here.

 

I watched TFA again today. It was even better the second time around. There are so many things about TFA that bothered me the first time through that I really could care less about now. I have become comfortable in not knowing, because that is the magic of SW. Not saying we couldn't have had a little more here and there, but having so many more questions about the film makes me love it more.

What we should remember is this film isn't just for rabid fans spending their time on message boards like us, endlessly debating every detail. It was for my wife who loved it and connected with Rey. She doesn't like sic-fi or fantasy and thought TFA was incredible. My young kids loved it too. On the car ride home, my son and his friends talked about how TFA was the best movie they ever saw, and this crew has seen Avengers, Avatar, Iron Man, LOTR, etc. and still, TFA topped them all. They had so many questions they couldn't wait for E8.

One of my most trusted mentors used to say to me, If you have too many expectations for other people, they will always ultimately disappoint you. Concern yourself with you. If we just let go of everything we've build TFA up to be over these many years, maybe we could see it through fresh eyes.

Besides, too much exposition can ruin a movie. That's why books are great. Nothing beats your own imagination.

 

I think this movie needs an extended edition with all the cut scenes to clear some things up

 

Great points. It was the perfect film for fans and nonfans. Unanswered questions are not plot holes, especially when most of those questions will be answered.

 

Who's the dominant power in the galaxy?
At the start of the movie, it's clear the biggest Political power is the Republic. However, in terms of Military power, the FO and even the Resistance seems more powerful.

Why is there a Resistance?
Also pretty clear : to counter the rising First Order.

Why doesn't the New Republic fight the First Order?
It is clear that (at least some part of) the Republic seems to fight the FO ... by supporting the Resistance (opening crawl).

There sure is a lot more to explore about the REPUBLIC / RESISTANCE divergence, but that's not the subject of this movie : leave that to the Sequels or some novels (this subject will be better treated in books than movies anyway).

 

Exactly, people bandy about the word 'plothole' whenever they don't understand something

 

Okay, there are some things I'm sure will be explained in a bit more depth in the next episodes (e.g. Who are Rey's parents and why did they leave her on Jakku? Why exactly did Kylo turn to the dark side? Who is Snoke? Where does he come from and what are his ultimate goals? etc). But there are a few minor things that feel a bit odd, like something was missing/cut. For example I was a bit confused when Maz Kanata suddenly just seemed to disappear after the attack on her castle. She wasn't killed in the attack but neither does she appear nor is she mentioned again later on.

 

Is it? What is the Republic?
There is really no info on any side. We just get 3 sides with two that are actively engaging.

Why isnt the New Republic countering it?
C3P0 says there's a Republic Fleet, why isnt that Fleet attacking?

But what arent they? The movie mentions a Republic Fleet.
Why are they supporting this faction and, apparently, not actively being involve themselves?

A handful lines of dialogue wouldn't be that much trouble to the movie.
There were a few scenes that could've been completely cut out and have those instead be world builder scenes.

What i thought the Resistance was from the start was people from the sector that the First Order controls fighting back. And they are being supplied with weapon by the Republic so the FO is fighting on two fronts.

 

The republic probably is the biggest political power, but I don't know that it's made all that clear. The first order is certainly more powerful than the resistance, but then they also seem to be scared of the resistance at times (fleeing Moz's castle), which is a bit odd, especially if the resistance is being secretly backed by a weaker republic fleet.

So why does the Republic need a resistance to fight for it? Why can't they oppose the first order directly? Why doesn't the Republic care about finding Luke?

You're right, the republic/resistance divergence would be better explored in a novel, but as best I can recall it's not even mentioned in the movie.

 

I still think George did it better in ANH. He gave a better reason why we should fear the Death Star. I just felt very apathetic toward Starkiller base

 

This is, honestly, my favourite post ever on this forum. It's articulated something that I've not quite managed to work out myself, and now it's said, it's like you reached into my mind and summed up my point.

We all KNOW that this film will, over the next decade at least, be an 'era' as well as a film. We will get the fleshed out universe if we are interested in it. But what we got in this film were, thankfully, characters, who simply acted like real people, and didn't clarify for the audience. None of us misunderstood, and those of us who strongly objected to the lack of exposition all seem able to fill in the gaps for themselves. I love that Star Wars is no longer familiar, and that essentially, all bets are off.

People call TFA a rehash, but if you look at the ending of Attack of the Clones, it appropriated the ending of empire strikes back, and people fell over themselves to describe it as the ESB of the trilogy, but it never was. Not because of the quality of the film, but because the 'uncertainty' was the audience trying to put themselves in the characters' shoes, not inherent to the story, which we more or less knew what had to happen.
Essentially, this is the first Star Wars film in a long, long time where the audience know less than the characters do. Maybe rather than seeing the results of this on screen as illustrating JJ's flaws, it could be seen as evidence of why JJ was such a good choice. This stuff is all so much more intriguing when we WANT to know it, rather than wondering why we're bogged down in exposition instead of watching the fun stuff

 

@ bacbacca : When the Republic's fleet is mentionned, they also do explain why it can't attack right now.
(if i remember correctly, they said it was too far and/or dispersed ... )

Your other questions are irrelevant for the movie : several reasons lead the Republic to the path it has chosen, but none of these need to be developed in that movie. When i'm in the theater, i want to know what happened to Han and Leia, and what will happen to Rey and Finn ... not why some Senators made some weird decisions some time ago.

Still these are interesting questions, and i'm sure you'll find some elements of response in newer materials. But in the meantime, you can easily use your logic and imagination to fill the blanks.

 

Kylo Ren should not have lost to Rey. As has been routinely established, Kylo Ren should be far more powerful than Rey at this point. The outcome where Kylo Ren loses to Rey is far less probable than its counterpart.

There's not much evidence one has more potential than the other. Rey's force feats are given praise, this is appropriate considering she has no formal canonical training at this point. However, she is the center of attention, and this screentime gives one ability to see more of her talents. Kylo performed force feats that were very impressive as well. And importantly, Kylo performed feats that were related to interpersonal combat. If Ren performed such feats, they were far more vague.

If Rey's potential were equal to that of Anakin. Which given her likely lineage, is fairly probable. Her potential given her age would be that of Anakin in Attack of the Clones. She is obviously far weaker than Anakin here though, because she lacks the training.

Kylo is of the same line as Anakin. If one considers that he has the same potential as Anakin, then he could be ridiculously powerful. He is 29, 7 years older than Anakin was in Revenge of the Sith. Anakin's life shows a clear linear progression of power until he is put in the suit. From 19-22, perhaps his powers doubled. This is his own estimation, but his progress is indeed remarkable. Obi Wan Kenobi showed a clear progression of power until at least his mid 30s. Considering Kylo has training, his potential is far more actualized than Rey's.

If one somehow comes to the conclusion that Rey has more force potential than Kylo. Then this superiority is manifesting itself unusually early in her life, and I would still say potential alone is not enough. Anakin had more potential than Count Dooku, but he still lost because Count Dooku had more training. I think some people have come to the conclusion that Rey must be more force sensitive than Kylo because she bested him. Firstly, it is inappropriate to use a contested event as evidence for a conclusion, but also this interpretation assumes she won the duel because she was more force sensitive. There are other interpretations to explain her success, such as luck.

Force users become stronger with age at least when young, and Kylo is 10 years older than Rey. Kylo when healthy, should be several times stronger than a younger, inexperienced and untrained Rey.

The question is to what extent Kylo has to be injured for the duel to be competitive. Kylo is able to catch up to Rey and Finn, he is able to outduel Finn, he is able to run, spin, and use the force. The injury is of course significant, but it does not seem to handicap him to the extent where he is a completely different person. The scene also establishes that Rey's powering up is the turning point. So, a large portion of the victory is attributable to Rey.

Many ignore how injured Rey should have been. The force push would carry a high likelihood of fatality for most mere mortals. Many ignore how improbable it would be for Rey to pull the saber away from a telekinetic expert. Rey is not proven to have used telekinesis prior. It is particularly odd that Kylo would not use force aggression to incapacitate Rey. She had not proven she could resist such aggression not two minutes prior. Kylo had put her in a stasis, and then to sleep earlier in the movie.

The duel in which Obi Wan bests Darth Mau portays an improbable outcome. However, that outcome is clearly portrayed as a fluke. I cannot say the same for this scene currently. I do hope though that the official explanation emphasizes the role of luck in Rey's victory.