Plot holes and their explanations

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Summers1913, May 15, 2014.

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  1. Summers1913 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2014
    star 3
    I have not been on this forum long but since I have I've gained a lot of different opinions on some of the plot holes in the films. For example it has always bothered me that in the first 5 minutes of TPM we see "force speed". Then at the end of the move Obi-wan cannot get to Qui-gon in time. I've come to terms with that with other people's opinions. I would love for people to list some of the plot holes they are having trouble with as well as answers to those holes if others have opinions.

    For example if someone could please explain to me the interaction between Obi-wan and R2 at the beginning of ANH? Is it possible Obi-wan could not know R2?

    Thanks.


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  2. Chuckskyline Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2013
    star 1
    Technically: Obi-wan did not own Artoo.. Do you know how many Blue astromech droids there were? R2-D2 is just the model he is...So.. the better question, how would Obi-wan who spent 19 years in the desert remember one random astromech droid?
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  3. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    He has been dueling Maul the whole time, not to mention that seconds before it, he had just made a huge Force jump in order to try to reach and help Qui-Gon. The circunstances are different at the beginning of the movie.
    Last edited by Alexrd, May 15, 2014
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  4. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4
    obi says "he doesn't remember owning any droids." that doesn't mean he's telling the truth. he says a lot of things that aren't the complete truth. there are tons of "r2" droids that are called "r2". obi has met with luke before and doesn't really know how serious it is until the name "obi-wan" is mentioned. r2 knows obi and at that point obi recognizes the two droids it's just not spoken out loud. r2 knew where and who to look for too.
    Last edited by thejeditraitor, May 15, 2014
  5. Ringo_DeathStarr Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2011
    From memory there is quite a mysterious and/or mischievous look on Obi-wans face when he says the line "I don't remember owning any droids" and looks at R2. I could be wrong, not seen it for awhile but remember thinking that to myself. Talking myself into a retcon of course - as in no way was it intended at the time - but im sure that moment is there.
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  6. KirkAFur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2005

  7. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    That's a plot hole? You never considered the possibility that Obi-Wan simply forgot to use extra speed?


    Obi-Wan owned a R4 droid in AOTC and ROTS. It was destroyed in the opening sequence of ROTS.

    R2-D2 belonged to Padme. It and 3P0 became the property of both Padme and Anakin.
    Last edited by DRush76, May 20, 2014
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  8. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    I think it's pretty clear that Obi-Wan knew exactly who Artoo was. Curiously enough, there's nothing really to indicate otherwise, and there are even mischievous hints of what looks like recognition on Obi-Wan's face.

    I think the intention from the start may very well have been that Obi-Wan had encountered Artoo before and was simply being coy.


    Obi-Wan didn't own that droid. The Jedi Order did.
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  9. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    I don't think so - it sort of looks like that in hindsight, just as Owen's line "That's what I'm afraid of" does, but I think Alec Guinness was merely playing it to indicate that he realised something big was happening, and didn't want to let on to Luke just yet. The actual line "I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid" is just a dry comment on the strange situation.
    Prior to the PT being released, I never read anything else into the scene, and never thought that Obi-Wan Kenobi had any prior dealings with Artoo or Threepio - there wasn't anything in the OT to indicate that he did.

    In universe, you could simply say that Jedi Knights don't 'own' anything - according to Anakin in AOTC, possession is forbidden.
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  10. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    Regardless, I think it's pretty clear that, at least now in light of the prequels, we should assume that Obi-Wan knows who Artoo is. He's on a familiar basis with the little guy by Episode III, and the circumstances of the situation in Episode IV should make it all but impossible for Obi-Wan to be unaware that he's the same droid.
  11. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4

    he knows.
  12. AndyLGR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2014
    star 2
    Obviously on filming the original they had no idea that they would do prequels and never gave it a single thought, so any thoughts of Obi Wan giving R2 a knowing look are impossible or just lucky in the fact they captured that shot at the time. Yet come the time of making the prequels they felt like they had to include R2 and 3PO and so forego any slight possible plot descrepanices like Obi Wan saying he's never owned a droid. So we are left to assume Obi Wan was just lying.

    What about Leia claiming to remember her mother?

    Padme just dropping dead and no one knowing what was up?

    Or Vader not acknowledging they were over his home planet of Tatooine or recognising 3PO in later films?
    Last edited by AndyLGR, May 21, 2014
  13. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
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    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    In-universe, in the light of the PT, yeah, he knows. The line about never owning a droid is just Obi-Wan pulling his "certain point of view' schtick.
  14. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Well, I don't think it's something you just forget. What I do believe is that it's not something he could have done easily when he had been dueling for quite some time and had just used the Force to make an huge jump to the catwalk they were in.
  15. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    Exactly. And it's weird how people always ask why Obi-Wan doesn't use Force speed but they never ask why all the other Jedi also fail to use certain Force powers in situations where they would seem useful. Like I think Luke uses Force jump a grand total of twice. You're telling me that couldn't have come in handy, like, constantly?
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, May 21, 2014
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  16. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Double post.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, May 21, 2014
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    As noted, he didn't exactly own any of the Astromechs that was paired up with him from AOTC to ROTS. He even had a dismissive attitude towards Artoo.

    ANAKIN: "No more loose wire jokes."

    OBI-WAN: "I didn't say anything."

    Given that those are ray shields, Obi-wan not using the Force to boost his speed was probably a wise decision. It might not be that easy to stop on a dime.
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  18. Jedi_Apprentice Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 3
    I think R2's communicating that he was the property of Obi-Wan was his way of making his quest more serious to C-3PO and Luke. Of course, we know Obi-Wan didn't own R2. Even before the PT existed, it made little sense for R2 to make such a claim only to be denied by Obi-Wan. It was a simple ploy he used as a means to an end, and it basically worked. Obi-Wan, on the other hand, I think certainly recognized the droids. Perhaps it wasn't initially, but after Luke mentioned the name Obi-Wan I think it made sense to him what was going on. Even when Obi-Wan said he didn't remember owning a droid, the shot changes to R2 who seems to understand that he needs to keep quiet and play along with Obi-Wan's lead. For, if Obi-Wan claimed to in fact have owned R2, Luke would no doubt start asking questions about their history. A history that Obi-Wan obviously wasn't quite ready to reveal.
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  19. drunken hutt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2014
    I've always believed that the biggest SW plot hole was in AOTC in regards to Sifo-Dyas and his order to create a clone army for the Republic, to be utilised at some point in the future. The viewer is never told in either AOTC or ROTS why he made that order nor are we given any insight into his character that might suggest why he took the illegal step to commission an army without the approval of the Jedi Council and Senate.

    (I'm only talking about the films, even though I know the EU provides all the necessary details of Sifo-Dyas and his backstory and motivations, etc)
    Last edited by drunken hutt, May 22, 2014
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  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That's because you're only meant to think it was him until Palpatine reveals who really did it.
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  21. drunken hutt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2014
    Interesting. I don't recall Palatine ever revealing who really made the order.

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  22. sharkymcshark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2

    To be fair very shortly after he uses the force to propel himself upwards about 5 metres while calling Qui Gon's lightsaber to him telekinetically, so the whole 'he was out of force power' excuse doesn't really fly.
  23. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4

    i think he means when palps reveals he's the sith master and he's been the bad guy all along. also it's shown he controls the clones while ordering order 66.
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  24. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Here's one that's annoyed me for a while...

    In ESB, Han is just deciding to leave the Rebellion to go pay off Jabba the Hutt. Why the hell didn't he do that already, with the money he got at the end of ANH? And don't tell me it's because after joining the Alliance he's supposed to be too noble and altruistic for that sort of thing-- not settling his debts with the most dangerous crime lord in the galaxy only puts himself and his friends into more danger than they're already in, with bounty hunters going after him left and right. Hell, why wouldn't the Alliance have insisted that he pay his debts, or offer to do so on his behalf, in order to make sure that he didn't put a giant target on their backs? That price on his head might be one of the very reasons they've had to go hiding on Hoth, for crying out loud.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I liked the EU answer- Han was robbed on the way to paying Jabba back.
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