Plot Holes and Your Thoughts About Them

Well hmmmm.......I'll take my time.....erm....., for me it doesn't matter if Padme had freed Shmi after the battle of Naboo or not, Shmi would have still come up against the inevitability of death and Anakin would still not have been capable of dealing with it.


Ah - I think we may be talking at cross-purposes here. You see I'm not trying to say that Padme could've saved Shmi from her ultimate fate with the Tuskens, but I'm saying that because Padme apparently did nothing , in the years following TPM, to help Shmi it contradicts what we know about Padme.
Thats why I was pointing out that Padme could've freed Shmi from slavery and then Shmi marries Cliegg and etc. obviously Shmi has to meet her doom , but I just don't think Lucas had thought out the plot mechanics of Ep.2 at that point and so has left this 'hole' of inaction by Padme.

All films have plot holes, but this one has bugged me since TPM because I remember when QGJ says he tried to free Shmi I thought "well why don't they come back later and free her - the Queen would have the means to". And then in AOTC it seems to have been ignored.

The only answer I can think of is that perhaps the Jedi council asked Padme not to free her, because they didn't want her to get in contact with Anakin. But that's difficult to believe because Padme tends to do what she feels is right.
And I really think that Padme would've naturally felt very appreciative of Shmi's help and would've wanted to help her out of slavery.

g

 

All films have plot holes

No they do not. That is not a fact, its subjective.
You as the viewer create said plot holes, by trying to over analyse such points as "Why didn't Padme free Shmi?"

And well I might just try to answer it.
I mean Padme is the Queen, as of TPM, right? She has duties to fulfil for her planet, and during the time of TPM and AOTC she may not have had any time to do anything but serve her planet, on a local level (as the Queen) and a international Level (as a Senator).
She has been kept busy from doing anything but service.
As was established in AOTC (moreso in the novel).

Beyond that explanation, if you want to go beyond it and overanalyse it then of course you'll see a plothole. But I don't because the explanation is pretty sound to me.

 

JK - I mean Padme is the Queen, as of TPM, right? She has duties to fulfil for her planet, and during the time of TPM and AOTC she may not have had any time to do anything but serve her planet, on a local level (as the Queen) and a international Level (as a Senator).
She has been kept busy from doing anything but service.
As was established in AOTC (moreso in the novel).

For 10 years she couldn't find the time? No, I don't buy that. Plus she could've had someone else do it for her. The real question is - if she had wanted to do something about it don't you think she would have? From what we're presented with in the films I definitely think she would have.

g

 

I didn't see him as being suspicious. In fact, when he told Boba to start packing, that looked to me like he was following a plan, he knew that since the Jedi had gotten there, his job was to head to Geonosis.

But his expression immediately after his conversation with Obi-Wan implied to me that he was mulling over the unexpected turn of events.

Re. the "Why didn't Padme free Shmi?" debate, honestly, the movie doesn't say so it's all speculation, but my personal theory has always been that Shmi may have refused to leave Tatooine. After all, she told Anakin before he left with Qui-Gon, "My place is here" and "Go. Don't look back." In other words, she was telling Anakin that he needed to learn independence, that he wouldn't be able to depend on dear old mom the rest of his life.

Now seeing these events in The Phantom Menace, it is entirely possible that shorly after the Battle of Naboo, Queen Amidala dispatched a royal envoy to Mos Espa to buy Shmi's freedom and Shmi refused, recognizing that her presence could hinder her son's developement as a Jedi.
Now of course it could be argued that Watto, being Shmi's owner, could have forciably sold her to the Nabooian envoy, but it seems reasonable to conclude they'd be unwilling to participate in such a transaction against Shmi's wishes. I'm sure Watto wasn't too thrilled about losing out on the money so he immediately put her up for sale to recoup his losses where she was bought by Cliegg Lars, and the rest of the events are told in Attack Of The Clones.

To me, this seems very plausible.

 

"Shmi may have refused to leave Tatooine. After all, she told Anakin before he left with Qui-Gon, "My place is here" and "Go. Don't look back." In other words, she was telling Anakin that he needed to learn independence, that he wouldn't be able to depend on dear old mom the rest of his life."

Your theory wouldn't explain her look of hope, and subsequent dashed hopes, when Qui-gon said he tried to free her. Are you saying that, had he freed her, she would have gone back to Watto.

She's telling Anakin these things for Anakin's sake, not her own. She doesn't want him to worry about her, which of course fails.

"Queen Amidala dispatched a royal envoy to Mos Espa to buy Shmi's freedom and Shmi refused, recognizing that her presence could hinder her son's developement as a Jedi."

How so? Presense where? You assume she needed to go to Coruscant? She could have stayed on Tatooine, living free, possibly getting married....sound familiar?

Hell, she could have gone with Padme back to Naboo. Padme has no problem taking in homeless aliens, and she didn't even keep in contact with Anakin for 10 years, so Shmi's "presence" wouldn't have been a factor.

"Now of course it could be argued that Watto, being Shmi's owner, could have forciably sold her to the Nabooian envoy, but it seems reasonable to conclude they'd be unwilling to participate in such a transaction against Shmi's wishes."

Do you think Shmi argued against Cliegg Lars buying and marrying her? I guess she didn't argue enough, since she was sold, and subsequently married.

Pretend for a moment that Cliegg was sent by Padme to buy Shmi. Do you think that, had Shmi found out who really bought her, she'd have gone running back to Watto?

 

I still stand by my theory.

 

Durwood -
Now seeing these events in The Phantom Menace, it is entirely possible that shorly after the Battle of Naboo, Queen Amidala dispatched a royal envoy to Mos Espa to buy Shmi's freedom and Shmi refused, recognizing that her presence could hinder her son's developement as a Jedi.

I can understand Shmi wanting to stay on Tatooine and not wanting to interfere in her son's training, but I don't think she'd want to remain a slave.

She could've been bought out of slavery and then lived free, met Cliegg etc.

But I can't believe she'd want to remain a slave.

g

 

That's fine by me. I guess we'll let sleeping plot holes lie.

 

You guys should watch Superman IV sometime. Now THERE'S some plot holes for ya
Any film where the bad guy's real name is 'Mark Pillow' gets MY vote!

 

That is Soooooooo true.

 

I don't think Jango wanted to be tracked back to Kamino. He probably didn't think that the saberdart would give away his hideout. And it wouldn't have if Obi-Wan hadn't asked Dexter about it. I think the clones were discovered before Palpatine/Sidious and Dooku planned, but, when the opportunity to accelerate their plans presented itself, they took advantage of it.

 

I always thought it was wierd that right after Palpatine is given complete authority, he pulls a gigantic army of clones, percieveably, out of his southern orifice, and no one really thinks twice about it.

It's kinda of like, "Hey, what a coincidence! Someone declared war on us, and we weren't prepared at all! How lucky for us that a mysterious army comes out of nowhere, free of charge, to defend us! I wonder how we could be so incredibly and improbably fortunate? Oh well, as long as we have a free army and we have Palpatine leading us, what could go wrong?"


The Senate, apparently, is full of complete idiots. As is the Jedi Council.

 

I think Palps will blame the Jedi for creating an army. Thus, he only 'discovers' the army when they need it most. The Jedi will get the blame

 

Why would he blame the Jedi for building an army that he controls?

That's like blaming Germany for making illegal beer, and then drinking it all.

 

"Why would he blame the Jedi for building an army that he controls?"

Um, to get rid of the Jedi? Remember that no one, not even Han Solo, remembers who the Jedi are anymore (and he's been from one side of the universe to the other. )

Palpatine is setting up the Jedi for the fall, hence the Kaminoans statement that "A Jedi Council member" ordered the clones. He will probably make some assertion that the Jedi made this army to take over the Republic, and will make himself a hero by turning the clones against the Jedi in order to "save" the Republic.

 

And again, all those who believed Palpatine would be idiots. Apparently that's the only kind of polititian allowed in the GFFA. A complete moron.

 

Incorrect. You presume that the politicians are privy to the same information that the audience is. We don't know how many are actually under Palpatine's dark influence, and how many are simlpy convinced that Palpatine's a good guy (like the Jedi do.)

 

That's true, they could be under Palpy's influence, seeing only what he wants them to see. And besides, if all of the politicans in the GFFA are morons, how would they be any different than our politicians?

 

Sorry to drag the whole Shmi issue back up again, but has it already been established somewhere as to how long before Ep. 2 Lars purchased her? I cannot recall if they mention in the film. However, provided it wasn't too near the beginning of the film, could it perhaps be possible that envoys were sent to emancipate Shmi, only to find her happily married and away from Watto? Just an idea...

 

Sorry to drag the whole Shmi issue back up again, but has it already been established somewhere as to how long before Ep. 2 Lars purchased her?

On P.16 of the AOTC novelization it says that Shmi met Cliegg 5 years ago .

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"could it perhaps be possible that envoys were sent to emancipate Shmi, only to find her happily married and away from Watto? Just an idea..."

They'd be great, and anything really is possible. I'm just saying that nothing about it is ever mentioned. Therefore, as far as we know, nothing was done for Shmi by anyone associated with Anakin. Rather heartless, I believe.

"it says that Shmi met Cliegg 5 years ago."

1998?