CT Plot Holes in the CT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Saintheart Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    (1) Knocking Luke out without combating him doesn't demonstrate a superior spiritual power, it only demonstrates superior tactical judgment. ESB Luke certainly is at the point of concentration -- he's out there lifting stones and droids while upside-down, no less, and he's already focused enough to concentrate for telepathy even in a life or death situation. The whole point of Vader trying to get Luke in a carbon freeze was to take him unharmed and also avoid him doing anything tricky like using Force powers on Vader's mooks. Vader torturing Luke's friends in front of him doesn't demonstrate the power of the Dark Side, it just demonstrates that Vader is a jerk and even less to be trusted or allied with. The Dark Side, per Yoda, is "quick to join in a fight." That's what Vader is counting on, that Luke will reach out for the Dark Side in battle against him.

    (2) Like I said, in ROTS, for one moment, during the Warner Brothers cartoon duel between Luke, Dooku, and Anakin, Dooku uses Force choke on Obi-Wan before flinging him aside. It's set up and implied as a sort of sucker punch, that Obi-Wan wasn't ready for it, which in turn implies that a prepared Force user can counter it. Either way, Vader didn't invent it. But I'm setting aside ROTS because I'd rather try and figure out Vader's motives from within ESB or the CT as a whole than bring the PT into it.

    (3) Where does it say in the film that becoming a cyborg diminishes a Force user's power? That's nowhere on screen. And IIRC even the EU says that chopping off or immolating limbs doesn't really hurt your Force potential because it's the midichlorian concentration in the blood that matters, not whether you lose 10% of your cells due to some dude with a lightsaber doing a Black Knight from Monty Python.
  2. Samuel Vimes Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I think you missunderstand what moment I am talking about. I am speaking of the moment, when they are on the walkway, just after Vader says "You are beaten.." Luke still fights on and scores a hit on Vader and then Vader ends the fight in less than a minute.

    [/QUOTE]

    No because you don't see the full game Vader is playing. Vader wants to turn Luke and use him to overthrow Palpatine. But if Luke is too weak then he is of no use, if Luke doesn't trun he is of no use and if Palpatine is the one who turns him then Vader might not have any use of him.

    So, given this, Vader first has to test Luke's might, to see if he is powerfull enough to be of use.
    Then, once he knows that, he has to start to work to turn Luke, first by testing his weakness, fear and later anger.
    Third, he could overpower Luke at anytime but he has to break Luke's resolve, to show Luke that it is useless to fight. On top of that, he sweetens the deal by offering Luke a chance to rule, to put an end to this war and have peace and above all, he offers himself, Luke's father. That is a might tempting thing, esp if the alternative is death.
    But Vader did underestimate one things, Luke's resolve and thus Luke drops to his death rather than join evil.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
  3. Wally44 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 2

    This one just came to my mind today when we were watching ESB. Luke leaves Hoth and there is NO ONE around. The Falcon leaves Hoth and is surrounded by Star Destroyers and TIEs. Doesn't make sense.
  4. Seagoat Music and PT Section Sentinel

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 5
    I would assume that the Empire was assaulting the planet from one side and Luke left out of another
    Of course the way I say this makes it sound like a 2-dimensional plane, but hopefully you get the idea of what I mean
  5. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 5
    There were probably dozens of X-wings leaving Hoth, but only one Falcon. Vader had probably made it clear that the Falcon was a higher priority than X-wings, so all the TIEs and SDs chased after it and that left plenty of room for the fighters to escape. If all the Imps had been able to tell which X-wing was Luke's, things would have been different.
  6. I Are The Internets SFTC Tiemaster (Nov '16)

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    How does one tell the X Wings apart?
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    By the Astromech unit plugged into the back. As well as being told in advance where theirs is parked.
  8. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Another Saga & CT Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    The stripes on the wings denote pilot - Luke is "Red Five," and the wings have five red stripes. And so on.
    NightWatcher91 likes this.
  9. NightWatcher91 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2014
    star 2
    I would also imagine Luke's would be marked as the leader of Rogue Squadron.
  10. I Are The Internets SFTC Tiemaster (Nov '16)

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    Aw man I thought it was the Force.
  11. JediTerminator Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2004
    star 5
    I think many plot holes form the Original Trilogy could have been explained better if Lucasfilm had better technology and money at the time. You would be surprised how much art is sacrificed from compromises that have to deal with cost and ability.
    Last edited by JediTerminator, Nov 30, 2014
  12. Darth Zannah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2014
    star 3
    It's because Leia was homies with the ewok, Warwik Davis...that's why....
  13. solo77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    star 5
    And vice versa, how much better things have come about due to the limitations - i.e. sometimes less is more (e.g. Jaws)
    Sarge likes this.
  14. Jangounchained1990 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2015
    star 2
    Seems like the AT-AT only have indestructible armor when Jedies like Luke cant cut plot holes throe them.
    darthbarracuda likes this.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    The armor isn't indestructible. It's fortified on the surface, which means it can take a beating. It can only be damaged at the neck. On the underside, though, it is a bit thinner. Also, if you will note, Luke doesn't do a deep cut like Qui-gon did with the blast shields on the Federation ship. The AT-ST's job is to act as guard in case of an assault from below, but it had already gone ahead and thus didn't see Luke until after the AT-AT was down.
  16. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Luke didn't cut his way in - he hit something, triggering a hatch on the AT-AT belly to fly open.
    darth ladnar and Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn like this.
  17. LZM65 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2015
    star 4
    Were Yoda and Obi-Wan ever planning to tell Luke that Vader was his father? Because it's a bit weird to me that they had encouraged him to kill Anakin first. And why didn't Luke return to Dagobah to finish his Jedi training?
  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Because Luke wanted to rescue Han first.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    YODA: "Told you, did he?"

    LUKE: "Yes."

    YODA: "Unexpected this is. And unfortunate."

    LUKE: "Unfortunate that I know the truth?"

    YODA: "No. Unfortunate that you rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training... that not ready for the burden were you."

    Yoda and Obi-wan had decided to keep Luke in the dark until he was done with his training, so that he could understand why his father did what he did and became what he became. But Luke's impatience was too great and he left before he was ready.
  20. TK-421 Is vader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2015
    star 3
    Why didn't the rebels evacuate Yavin just in case?Why stay there and risk being superlasered. How is a blockade runner caught by a star destroyer?Why dosn't chewie or Leia use the Falcons turrets in empire?How did the Empire figure out the falcon was headed to Bespin?(Maybe I just didn't notice the explanation for that though)Why was the Tantive four near Tatooine anyway?Alderaan isn't exactly its neighbour...
  21. darkspine10 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2014
    star 5
    The Empire knew they were heading for Bespin, because Boba Fett tracked them.
  22. Samuel Vimes Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    The other question that comes to mind is why Yoda didn't tell Luke before he left in ESB?
    Once it was clear that he was going, either they tell him or Vader tells him. The latter could be far more damaging. Yoda seemed to know that Vader was aware that Luke was his son.
    So why not tell him? They knew Vader was there and that he wanted Luke.

    Of course the real reason is cinematic, revealing that info there is far less dramatic than at the end, with Luke beaten and defeated. Same reason is why Vader and Palpatine talk about Luke in vague terms and not "My son."

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
    Last edited by Samuel Vimes, Jun 3, 2015
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Yoda didn't expect Vader to acknowledge that he was his father. That's why he says it was unexpected that Vader would tell him. He had truly believed that Vader wouldn't do so. And Yoda still thought that Luke wasn't ready, that he was either going to die or turn. That's why when Luke returns, he declares him ready to face his Jedi trail, which is to confront his father.
  24. LZM65 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2015
    star 4

    That wasn't very smart on Yoda's part. Yoda couldn't even consider the possibility that Vader might tell Luke the truth? Wasn't he being a little bit . . . well, close-minded?
  25. Kev Snowmane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2013
    star 3
    They didn't have time.

    Pretty much as shown on screen. It's speculation, but I'd say they probably lost their hyperdrive to turbolaser fire prior to the opening scene.

    Han needed Chewie to help fly the Falcon because she was barely operational at the time.

    Boba Fett (who was following the Falcon) told them. Since the Falcon was on its auxiliary/"backup" hyperdrive, the Empire had plenty of time to get to Bespin first.

    Trying to reach Obi-wan.
    Iron_lord likes this.