CT Plot Holes in the CT

Oh right. I see what you mean. I think it's the same deal though. Takes a certain familiarity that comes with having seen the film multiple times.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. And I'll admit that I do my share of nitpicking once in a while

 

I think I'll just assume that Han installed lights that were salvaged from a wreck that came from the same manufacturer that was contracted to install lights in the Death Star.

 

The novelization places the scene where Threepio is tangled up in wires and complaining about melting, as taking place on the Tantive IV. This was to explain how the droids got separated. But it is possible that the close up of Artoo was taken from another scene and inserted into the Falcon escape sequence. I've seen editing techniques like that in other films. Most times it isn't sloppy, but occasionally you'll get some real doozy's.

 

had never thought of that

 

Yes,R2's close-up is taken from the DS, as well as his another close-up during the chess-game. And as you say, 3PO's "I'm melting" was taken from the prologue sequence. It works wonderfully after "we did it!", however.

 

darth-sinister wrote

The novelization places the scene where Threepio is tangled up in wires and complaining about melting, as taking place on the Tantive IV.

However, there is no corresponding scene in any screenplay draft that places Threepio there, and I've analyzed the background of that scene but found no evidence for that scene having been shot on the Tantive IV sets (i.e. the way it looks to me that scene was shot on the Falcon studio set, notice the floor elements that only exist aboard the Tantive IV where Leia was hiding and in the main hold of the Falcon).

 

Those floors definitively look like the Falcon. We have never seen anything similar on the Tantive IV have we? The scene may not be in the screenplay (I haven't read it), but it's right here in the novelization:

So yes, it was originally intended for taking place on the Tantive IV, if the novelization is any clue at all. By the way the formatting on this forum sucks. There is no way to paste any text and format it so that it's all the same size

 

Just do what I do. Open a second window/tab and past it into the search engine of Google or whatever you use. But don't do a huge paragraph. Only a few sentences at a time.

Anyway, the thing with the novelization is that it is based on the January 1st, 1976 draft.

http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/...ller-as-taken-from-the-journal-of-the-whills/

It is listed as scene two. If I were to wager a guess, one of two things happened.

1. Lucas did film it as part of the Tantive set and it was later put into the Falcon scene.

2. It was intended to be the Tantive scene, but was later filmed and moved there.

There was a similar issue on "Superman", with the trial by bullets, ice and fire scene. That was a scene that was originally intended to take place after Lex Luthor talks about destroying Superman and before Perry White rants about the Daily Planet not having an exclusive about Superman. There was a lengthy sequence where Clark Kent talks to Lois Lane in her apartment about Superman rescuing her, before he rushes off when he learns of a poison gas hidden in a warehouse. Superman goes in and is shot, burned and frozen, before he disposes of the pill. This would then account for Otis talking about bullets and fire not hurting Superman, but Kryptonite would. Because when you watch the Director's Cut and the ABC extended broadcast, the sequence is placed when Superman goes to confront Lex, who uses the threat of a poison gas to lure him there. Parts of this sequence was already filmed, but never completed and the public copy of the script lists the trial scene as happening twice.

In the case of "Superman", there was extensive rewrites going on during filming. With ANH, I wager that Lucas either filmed it one way and re-shot/edited. Or he just re-wrote the scene and placed it later.

 

Actually, Donner and Mank discussed this on the commentary and it was ultimately written in order to show Luthor providing a false sense of security for Superman, so that he wouldn't anticipate the kryptonite. If the trial by bullets/fire/ice was earlier, not only would it definitely be seen as redundant axe grinding, then it would also mean that Superman was aware of Luthor and his lair before the poison gas threat.

The scene was taken out of the theatrical cut because of pacing and it was deemed unnecessary after all. Since we discover that Superman is impervious to bullets on his first nigh, why not fire and snow also? They regret leaving out the the build up to the reveal, it just wasn't necessary for the story. Superman is justifiably unconcerned about kryptonite since , who on earth would have kryptonite?

 

1. Superman doesn't know about Lex's lair in the original placing of the scene. The scene took place in a warehouse and the speaker was located there. When it was done the second time, which is the version that was used, Superman traces the source to Lex's underground lair. You read the script and you can notice this.

2. Superman is unaware of Kryptonite's existence until he opens the chest. So there would be no concern on his part, for something he was unaware of.

 

Are you agreeing with me, or what?

 

darth-sinister wrote

Anyway, the thing with the novelization is that it is based on the January 1st, 1976 draft.

http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/...ller-as-taken-from-the-journal-of-the-whills/

It is listed as scene two. If I were to wager a guess, one of two things happened.

1. Lucas did film it as part of the Tantive set and it was later put into the Falcon scene.

2. It was intended to be the Tantive scene, but was later filmed and moved there.



I'm afraid it may even be more complicated and/or mysterious. Now, all the scenes aboard the Tantive IV were officially shot last prior to wrapping the filming in the UK. In these final scenes it becomes clear that Threepio's accident wasn't shot, then.

Therefore, Threepio's accident must have been shot way ahead of these final scenes but it's really difficult for me to identify the actual set in the background. I'd first need a Falcon film set specialist to tell us whether the floor segment matches one of the main hold film set (which would be my guess). It could also be the "sub-hallway" of the Tantive IV where Leia was hiding, but then we'd have here the only scene shot in the "pirate starship" film set where the main hallway was just the "sub-hallway" before Lucas could con the Fox Studio execs into buying him / adding the white main hallway.

 

The sub hallway has a floor without grating, which is the area where Leia gives Artoo the plans. There might have been another section that had grating.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Lucas decided during production that this moment would work better on the Falcon and filmed it accordingly. A very tiny script change compared to some others that happened during filming (eg, Luke's surname becoming Skywalker, and Obi-Wan getting killed off on the Death Star).

 

darth-sinister wrote

The sub hallway has a floor without grating, which is the area where Leia gives Artoo the plans. There might have been another section that had grating.

That is partially correct. In the section where Leia is hiding the rostrum is the walkway with the panels but a step down to the left and right there is the grating: https://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-iv-a-new-hope-1977/3/
(see frame # 172, 173 and 180).

The problem is that there's not enough background next to Threepio to pinpoint the filming location (contacted a Falcon specialist). However, the screencaps - https://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-iv-a-new-hope-1977/63/ - reveal a panel next to Threepio I haven't seen in the Tantive IV sub-hallway set, yet.

 

According to my Falcon specialist, the 'Falcon Community' has concluded that "Threepio entangled" could not have been shot on any of the Falcon sets and therefore 'must' have been shot in the sub-hallway of the Tantive IV.

As a Tantive IV specialist (if I may be so bold) I can equally assure that the Threepio scene wasn't shot there, either, so I think it might have just been a tiny quick set built on the occasion to shoot Threepio covered in cables.

 

I wish they could of found a way to incorporate a reason why Kenobi told Luke "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough." Maybe there could of been a scene in the Jedi temple in Revenage of the Sith of Obi-Wan and Anakin walking the hallways and as they are talking a couple younglings stop obi and anakin and ask them a question. Maybe the kids could say something like "we hear you have been in many battles. It must be really exciting to use your laser swords." Obi wan could could give them a quick lesson how sabers aren't for fun...they are used for defense and in serious matters.

One of the kids could say something like 'Do the Jedi not trust us to have one now?'

Then Anakin could kneel down to their level and say something like...

'its not about trust...its about what your ready for. Even when I have a child I will wait until he is old enough before I allow him to construct his own saber.'
Youngling could say "i hear lightsabers are difficult to build '
Anakin "than i could just give him mine. Now run off. You dont want to be late for Yoda's class. He has been know to get grouchy when his students are late.'

The kids walk away with smiles and maybe obi wan could say something like... 'when i have my child?' As Anakin is standing he is smiling still from watching kids walk away but then all of a sudden has a serious look...'umm...i mean...hypothetically speaking if i had a child.'

Not the best example but some idea of a what if scene.

 

JMaster Luke wrote

The kids walk away with smiles and maybe obi wan could say something like... 'when i have my child?' As Anakin is standing he is smiling still from watching kids walk away but then all of a sudden has a serious look...'umm...i mean...hypothetically speaking if i had a child.'

Actually, that's a great example (with the wink of an eye) and I have no doubt whatsoever that a (unseen) scene like that did happen.

Already in the original ANH context (Luke's father and Vader being two different, physical beings) Anakin must have talked with Obi-Wan that if something were to happen to him that he'd want his lightsaber to be passed to his offspring.
According to Lucas his original back story was that Anakin and Vader fight and Anakin is killed, next Obi-Wan fights Vader and Vader falls into a volcanic pit. Even in the original backstory, I doubt there would have been an explicit Anakin death scene talking about the ligtsaber while Vader is waiting in the background for Obi-Wan to get ready to fight...

(but I wonder if in that original back Story Obi-Wan would have used his own lightsaber or Anakin's to defeat Vader)

 

Whatever Lucas original idea was i'm sure Anakin wouldn't of said during his last fight (with Vader or with Obi Wan) that he would want his saber given to his son. I always assumed it would be a scene well before his final fight. A off hand comment that stuck with Obi Wan. And in my what if scenario i think something subtle of Anakin saying 'IF' he had a child he would want it to have his saber one day. I'm not a writer but im sure there could of been some way to incorporate a sweet moment like that. Plus having Anakin talking about having a child or getting along with younglings would help show how much he loved children. would explain too why as Vader he got hit so hard when finding out he had a son. I think that might been a nice side of Anakin to show. that he always loved children and wanted to take care of them (since as a child he was a slave...he would want to make sure children were taken care of)

Some thoughts.

 

Not exactly a plot hole, but it's a little baffling that Obi-Wan snuck around the Death Star with his hood down, yet he brings the hood back up to fight Vader.

 

How about Luke and Han putting on stormtrooper armors over their clothes? For Han it makes some sense. But there is no way Luke could fit his desert robes underneath that armor and then wear them in exactly the same shape as before. We never saw him put his clothes in a backpack or store them someplace else. So he wore them all the time on the DS. Doesn't work for me, though it could be nitpicking

 

(no, you are NOT allowed to wonder about Han Solo's boots...)

 

Obi-wan we can dismiss cause of the Jedi Mind Trick. But three humans and a Wookiee, now that's a different matter.

 

Oh, I forgot all about the boots, it must have been VERY tight inside those suits
OK, maybe Han snuck back into the Falcon by himself to get the boots