CT Plot Holes in the CT

I do understand that and you make good solid points, but Luke shows little emotion towards the people who raised him. He barely knew Obi-Wan and mourned him more than Owen and Beru. They way the Lars family shaped Luke morally, helped him become the man and Jedi he is . Luke was raised with the Ethics and Discipline that helped him fight the lure of the Darkside. The Ewoks mourned their dead more than Luke. The one thing the PT did better than the OT was show how death affects it's characters.

 

Luke saw Obi-wan be killed in front of him. The Lars were already dead and you can tell that he's still bummed out over their deaths when he returns to the Sandcrawler to tell Obi-wan that he'll accompany him to Alderaan. Note that Luke also goes from depressed to joyous after blowing up two TIE Fighters and then seemed fine again until he laments to Leia that he misses Obi-wan. Lucas's intent in ANH was that there was a time for grieving and now was not the time.

 

Even Leia says that, "We have no time for sorrows," as soon as she arrives at Yavin.

 

According to Yoda there is no time for grieving, mourning or missing the dead, ever.

Although he seemingly has time to miss the living.

 

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The Jedi live by a good samaritan code. Compassion. Not forming attachments doesn't mean they don't care.

 

Unless you live on Tatooine.

 

I don't see your point or what you're referring to.

 

Well, the entire period from when Anakin was taken into the Jedi to when he went back to Tatooine, the Jedi hadn't helped the enslaved people there at all. And this is a period before the Clone Wars where Jedi Knights were pretty much just dealing with stuff like this.

 

That's the whole point of the PT though. The Jedi have become part of the machine. Their temple being five feet from the galactic capital is no coincidence.

 

I guess. But this whole thing was in response to you saying that they care, hence bringing up Tatooine. Caring doesnt mean much when they just straight refuse to do anything about it.

 

Tattooing isn't in the Republic, so the Jedi can't interfere directly without it being illegal.

 

The entire point of the saga is that the Jedi were all lost.

Notice how Yoda says that Jedi use the force only for defence, never for attack, but trains Luke to attack and kill his own father.
Notice also that Yoda says Luke will destroy all that they have fought for if he leaves (spoiler: Yoda was wrong again).

 

Tatooine also has no solid government. It's a planet full of various independent settlements governed by gangsters and warlords. Not to mention those other times the Jedi interfered on worlds that weren't part of the Republic, like Kamino.

 

He's not bawling his eyes out like Anakin does. There's a difference between missing a friend who his healthy and hale, and missing the dead and letting it define you. Leia isn't defined by Alderaan's destruction. She's moved on from it. Anakin spends his whole life defined by his mother's death.

 

But again, you're missing the point. The Jedi have forgotten the little guy. They have become part of a system not worth saving.

 

So it has to do with not bawling one's eyes out. As long as you do that, (as well as refuse others the training that's supposedly essential to handle such emotional challenges) you can be complete hypocrite.

 

There is no hypocrisy. When Yoda leaves Kashyyyk, he's not sitting around, pining for the past with the Wookiees and the glories of battle. When Anakin has his vision of Padme's death, he jumps to the conclusion that she's dead and buried. He's stuck in the past with his mother's death and in the future with Padme's death, but not living in the here and now. He ignored that the future is always in motion. And Yoda did not refuse to train Anakin on how to do this. Obi-wan taught him how to do it and he followed the same instructions that Yoda had. It fell to Anakin to follow that training or not.

 

Given that he believes that by acting on the vision, he can prevent it from happening - it's clear that he accepts the possibility of changing the future and that it's not fixed.

 

That's nonsense, it's not the Jedi's job to save every being in the galaxy. They aren't equiped to do so either. They are guardians of peace, they don't exist to hunt after every single problem that could possibly exist in the galaxy. The Jedi haven't forgotten the little guy, they just can't deal with every issue you can find. They are supposed to keep the galaxy at large in a peaceful state, dealing with rights is something for the galactic senate and local governments.

It's not like your idea could even work. Tatooine is not part of the Republic, and Jedi generally aren't running around in huge numbers. Even if they went to Tatooine and freed all slaves, how do you propose to keep that status?
You can't possibly send hundreds of Jedi to enforce a slave-ban on that planet without any backing by the Republic. Which means even if they would temporarily solve the issue, they would either leave and thus cause the old system to return, or waste endless resources on keeping the planet under occupation even though it doesn't fall under their jurisdiction.

It's like believing you could bomb a country and afterwards it will turn into a working democracy without much effort. This isn't an issue you can just solve with a bunch of guys wearing lightsabers.

That's only partially true. He believes that what he sees is definately happening, and that he needs to find something that will change this definate future. He doesn't accept that this isn't how visions of the future work. Thus he truly is stuck in the "Padme will be dead soon" mode, which prevents him from acting in the here and now.

 

Oh I agree, but I see the PT on two levels.
The character level, and the artsy symbolic/subtext level.
And I believe than the latter level shows that the order is rotting and had to go.
They aren't bad people, but they have lost their way.
See my thread "Qui-Gon's philosophy" on the Star Wars in depth board for more if you want to know more.

 

Yes, but he believes in the necessity of preventing the future as the only way to stop it from happening. Not that the future will happen, but what can change is based on other factors that are not seen. Case in point, Obi-wan is seen wearing his robes when Anakin is in Padme's apartment. But in the end, he's not wearing it. Likewise, Ahsoka saw Padme being shot by Aurra Sing, but not the end result of what would really happen. Anakin saw Padme dying now, but in a few months, it might have changed. That's why the future is in motion.

 

Do not miss people Yoda tells Anakin

I will miss you are the final words Yoda chooses to speak before entering indefinite seclusion.

The dialectics of hypocrisy are quite easily defined.

It takes adoption of a perverse or biased point of view in order to deny that.

 

Uh, what does this have to do with plot holes? Don't we already have a number of threads discussing the Jedi's definition of 'mourn them/miss them'?

As for Luke... well, people react to grief in different ways. And considering Luke has a chance for revenge almost immediately, it works out for him.

 

A character explicitly expressing an emotion that they previously tutored a subordinate explicitly not to indulge in without any justification for their own actions being at odds with their words is a plot hole. Unless you appreciate that the subtext is that some significant characters like their subordinates to do as they say not as they do. Or you justify double standards and apply selective definitions for the word "miss" to different individuals.

It didn't happen in the OT though. but that happens sometimes.

Back on topic.

If the existence of the Sith causes such an imbalance in the force throughout the galaxy that the thousands of Jedi at their height are unable to use the force properly to sense what's going on around them or even intuit the darkness or otherwise of the intent of people even at close proximity to them (one oh which happened to be the direct cause of the imbalance), how is Yoda able to have monitored Luke growing up from light years away on Dagobah during a period of Sith dominance?

 

I can see it obviously being illegal for the Jedi to use physical force to try to end slavery but don't see how it would be to interfere in non-violent ways especially buying and freeing slaves (unless they really didn't have much money).

It's almost interesting that there is no mention of slavery in the OT, almost as if the Empire did ban it including on Tatooine, although I guess the locales seen are pretty different.