CT Plot Holes in the CT

The Jedi narrow down Sidious to the Chancellor's Office, if memory serves for the novelization / allusion in ROTS. As the war progresses, the darkness grows - the novelization talks about reaching a turning point. A 'shatterpoint' for Mace.
When he reveals himself (i.e. to Anakin, and then Anakin subsequently to Mace) - it is only then that they know the exact source of the evil.

 

Thar doesn't make sense either. The other Jedi begin to sense the darkside around Palpatine, where they had previously been unable to because of the darkside, when Palpatine tells Anakin explicitly that he can use the darkside?

 

Just because she has a vision of the past, doesn't mean that Luke has to have one. She doesn't even have the vision of her own imminent danger that Luke has.

No, he doesn't. He just looks at him when he interrupts him.

No, it means that the Jedi realize that there the dark side surrounds him, which only happens before Anakin tells them about Palpatine.

"It's not that they can't see the dark side coming, it's just that the dark side begins to envelop everything. It's like walking into a fog. The Jedi's ability to see lessens as the dark side grows."

--George Lucas, Starlog Magazine Interview.

They realize that there is a vergence in the Force that surrounds him. They realize that something bad will happen with him, but they don't know how or why this will happen. They see it because events are reaching their peak. And yes, in the novelization, Yoda finally is able to see the future that he hasn't been able to and sees that he will lose to Palpatine. That he cannot beat him and will die if he keeps trying. This is why when the duel ends and he's laying down on the floor of the Senate chamber, he chooses not to get up and continue.

The Sith use the dark side because they have convinced themselves that the Jedi fear it and that they don't use it as a result, so they open themselves to the dark side and all that it entails. Part of it is acknowledging and/or denying who they are. Yoda realizes this during his training.



SERENITY: "You have conquered your hubris. Now face the temptations you must."

YODA: "Powerful the creature was."

SERENITY: "What you faced was a reflection of your hubris and the shadow of your soul."

YODA: "And yet clear I thought I was."

SERENITY: "The beast is you, and you are the beast. To deny it simply gives it power."

YODA: "Now I see. Simple the answer was."

Anakin denies the hubris and the shadow of his own soul, which the novelization states is a dragon that exists within him. Finally, he acknowledges that there is no dragon, but it is himself. He is the one who did all this, but rather than walk away from it, he continues to be a Sith.

 

Padme was very good friends with Bail and probably with Mon Mothma too, I don't think it would be unusual for them to have holo-images of Padme. I like to think of it as Bail showing one to Leia, telling her that she was her real mother and telling her to tell nobody no matter what happens.

Something like this would fit with Leia's dialogue....

 

It isn't about having holos. She states that she has images and can feel feelings. She never said anything about pictures. As to when and where, well, it could be anytime.



She might have had a flash to that day.



Or then. Remember, Rey was seeing a day that she was never present for.





Those visions can come from any point in time.

 

I don't see how. If Leia had only seen images of her mother why would she say she "remembers" her? Remembers that she was "sad" & "kind"? When RotJ was made the intention was that Leia was 2 years old when her mother died. Lucas states that here. If that were the case the dialogue in RotJ would all track perfectly. He changed his mind with the PT so he could have a more dramatic ending, with Padme dying while Vader was being "born". Which worked well but it also created a plothole.

 

Yet he does:

LUKE Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?

LEIA Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

LUKE What do you remember?

LEIA Just...images, really. Feelings.

LUKE Tell me.

LEIA (a little surprised at his insistence)
She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
(looks up)
Why are you asking me all this?

He looks away.

LUKE I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.

LEIA Luke, tell me. What's troubling you?

LUKE Vader is here...now, on this moon.

What's more is some way she's always known:

LEIA Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I--I don't understand and
could never have.

LUKE You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to
use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has
it...I have it...and...my sister has it.

Leia stares into his eyes. What she sees there frightens her. But she
doesn't draw away. She begins to understand.

LUKE Yes. It's you Leia.

LEIA I know. Somehow...I've always known.

 

Luke asks Leia that question because of deleted dialogue from earlier on Dagobah (present in the novelization and shooting script too I believe) during which Obi Wan spells out what he did with the two of them. Luke was handed to Obi Wan's brother (yes, not Anakin's stepbrother) and 'Padme' was supposed to have taken Leia and lived on Alderaan for a few years before dying, hence why Leia remembers her.

It's only a plot hole because Lucas doesn't especially care about continuity.

 

I've seen some arguments that while it is in the novelization, it is not in the shooting script, at least not the phrase "my brother Owen" - with that originating with the author rather than Lucas.

 

You may doubt the faithfulness of the ROJ shooting script at IMDB, but here is a scan of what looks like the genuine ROJ script and on page 41 (Scene 51) where you can read at the very top

BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your
mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep
you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you
to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia
to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B06TkKwbjluubm5DX0NBQkZ0NWs/view

So it is not something originating with Mr. Kahn but Kasdan and/or Lucas.

 

The reason for questioning the script draft that was publicly released, it is due to it saying this...

RETURN OF THE JEDI

by Lawrence Kasdan & George Lucas

From The Novel by George Lucas

Lucas never wrote a novel, nor the novelization for ANH. Much less ROTJ. Also, certain passages in the script are almost word for word taken from the novelization. It is also missing the Lightsaber construction scene that was filmed, as well as the additional material from the Battle of Endor that was shot, but not used. Those bits aren't shown in the novelization, but should be in the script. The other scripts all contain the material that was shot and deleted and the direction isn't a copy of the novelization.

 

darth-sinister

So you think this script - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B06TkKwbjluubm5DX0NBQkZ0NWs/view - is bogus?

I guess the general problem is that except for the (polished) script / transcript first published in The Art of Return of the Jedi (1983) most of us still haven't seen a genuine screenplay copy.

Those bits aren't shown in the novelization, but should be in the script.

Sorry, but here you are jumping to premature conclusions. Thanks to the research efforts of Hernalt, he had been able to reveal that James Kahn (ROJ novelization author) had access to extended screenplay pages from February 1982, published here: http://starwarz.com/tbone/the-battle-above-endor/
I don't doubt the authenticity of these documents, these simply didn't show up in the polished script / transcript because they had not been in the final film, but as they reflect word for word what ended up in Kahn's novelization, we can safely assume that this also applies for other dialogue in the novelization, even though we don't have the corresponding extra screenplay pages.

However, it is obvious that the "December 19, 1982" features an Endor space battle scene I remain confident was created rather late from leftovers of previous (deleted) scenes: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...urn-of-the-jedi.50041047/page-2#post-53643275

But then again, that new scene was most likely created around ILM's Black Friday of November 22, 1982 (http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...-space-battle-in-return-of-the-jedi.50041047/), so it's rather possible that this new scene did show up in a screenplay dated December 19, 1982 which reflects the state of the film's cut - before further cuts were applied prior to the May 1983 release of ROJ.

 

Does the SE Greedo scene create a plothole? The altered scene doesn't seem to match up with the dialogue. Greedo says he's going to take Han to see Jabba. That Han can explain his story to him, & maybe he'll only take his ship. If that's his intention why would he shoot & try to kill Han? Also it's established in the next movie that Jabba only wants Han alive. In fact Boba Fett says that he's no good to him dead at all. Given all of that it's absurd for Watto to try & kill Han. The scene makes a lot more sense in its original form.

 

In the scene, it's pretty clear that Greedo is using "Take Han to Jabba" as an excuse - what he wants is Han dead right there:

"Over my dead body."
"That's the idea. I've been looking forward to this for a long time".

In the novel, Jabba protests that Greedo was never to going kill Han - only communicate Jabba's agitation at the delay in being paid, and Han responds "I think he thought he was."

 

An excuse for what? If his plan was to shoot him then & there why talk about Jabba only taking his ship? I think "I've been looking fwd to this" just referred to arresting him. He'd know that Chewie was nearby. Killing Han without dealing with Chewie first would be suicide. However if he has Han at gunpoint he has leverage. Also consistant with what we learn in TESB. The bounty is for Han alive, not dead.

 

I certainly got the impression that Greedo was a loose cannon (Han knew it too). Sometimes bad guys can be jerks and their boss doesn't know it.

 

I totally get that. It's still not consistent for a jerk who plans to kill someone to babble on first about taking them in & what the boss will do to them.

 

I would only expect a jerk to be consistently jerky.

(I have copyrighted all spellings for the name Consistently-Jerky just in case Star Wars story group are reading that and think they can have it for free.)

 

That's harder to say than snap into a slim jim, but it does have an elan and panache.

 

Elan and Panache are Consistently-Jerky's two pet womprats.

 

Greedo was looking forward to being an idiot for a long time. Lol. He didn't check to see if Han had any weapons. He made many other mistakes besides that bad shot. I mean, don't get me wrong. I believe Han shot first, but still, Greedo was an idiot even without the edit.



I don't know who voiced Greedo. I know that Larry Ward invented the language for him and Jabba. It was an imitated language of some sort. But I don't like the reading of it. Greedo is like, "That's the idea. I've been looking forward to this for a long time." Gosh, it sounds like he is attracted to Han, as though he was peeved over some rejection. Lol.



Also, I can't find it. But there's a funny video of the desk shooting a laser at Han before he shots it. It's to mock Lucas's changes, like if he wanted to make Han shooting the desk in self-defense. Lol. Priceless. Find it, somebody! Lol.

Oh, and don't get me wrong. I like most of Lucas's changes for TESB, such as McDiarmid and all the many sound changes. But as we all know, some of changes to ANH and ROTJ were pretty unnecessary for the most part, with a few exceptions. The overall cleanup of both were needed. But the band was silly, and so on. The sarlacc was pretty good. Looked more impressive in 1997, but you know what I mean.

 

Which is why, Dravis (I believe) in Heir to the Empire insisted that Han put both of his hands on the table.

 

In the newcanon - Greedo's pre-existing grudge against Han - is over romantic issues - the Rodian Greedo was attracted to, chose Han instead - and Greedo has been nursing a grudge ever since (From a Certain Point of View anthology).

 

Han shagged a Rodian? He's worse than Kirk!

Despite an author trying to re-textualise Greedo as a jilted lover, there's still no reason for him to waste time talking about what Jabba will do to Han &/or his ship if murder was his plan.