CT Plot Holes in the CT

That is not correct, among his Tatooine friends he is just known as "Wormie" or "Luke". It is not until he introduces himself to Leia that we hear for the first time "Luke Skywalker" (during their ride to Mos Eisley Obi-Wan could have informed Luke 'Lars' about his true identity).

Because he lost a shipment of spice and knows he has to compensate Jabba for this loss. Rather than to run he does the 'right' thing, returns to Tatooine and either hopes for a charter that would enable him and Chewie to compensate or to make himself and Chewie available for another job from Jabba.

HAN
Yes, Greedo. As a matter of fact,
I was just going to see your boss.
Tell Jabba that I’ve got his money.

I think he was earnest when he said that.

 

So Hyperdrives allow the ship to go faster than light, yet Leia refers to it as "lightspeed" when on the Falcon in TESB.

What the hell, George. Star Wars is ruined now.

 

Already in ANH George Lucas made it abundantly clear (IMHO) that the colloquialism of "jumping to lightspeed" is actually a synonym for "jumping (in)to hyperspace", let's just look at this dialogue:

HAN It looks like an Imperial cruiser.
Our passengers must be hotter than I
thought. Try and hold them off. Angle
the deflector shield while I make
the calculations for the jump to
light speed.

HAN Stay sharp! There are two more coming
in; they're going to try to cut us
off.

LUKE Why don't you outrun them? I thought
you said this thing was fast.

HAN Watch your mouth, kid, or you're
going to find yourself floating home.
We'll be safe enough once we make
the jump to hyperspace. Besides, I
know a few maneuvers. We'll lose
them!

HAN Here's where the fun begins!

BEN How long before you can make the
jump to light speed?

HAN It'll take a few moments to get the
coordinates from the navi-computer.

The ship begins to rock violently as lasers hit it.

LUKE Are you kidding? At the rate they're
gaining...

HAN Traveling through hyperspace isn't
like dusting crops, boy! Without
precise calculations we could fly
right through a star or bounce too
close to a supernova and that'd end
your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

The ship is now constantly battered with laserfire as a red
warning light begins to flash.

LUKE What's that flashing?

HAN We're losing our deflector shield.
Go strap yourself in, I'm going to
make the jump to light speed.

The galaxy brightens and they move faster, almost as if
crashing a barrier. Stars become streaks as the pirateship
makes the jump to hyperspace.

 

I never knew why there was a protracted period between TESB and ROTJ whereby Lando and Chewie had to ‘find’ Han?

I mean, they knew exactly where Han was, and even planned the rendezvous point on Tattooine.

But I believe the period of a year or so passes?

 

Anyone catch Pablo's recent tweets RE plotholes? Most are pretty weak but one here I thought was quite good.



The first one is ok, but could be explained by the fact that a lone small fighter could slip away from the planet unnoticed. On the other hand you'd think since Vader & by extension the Empire were obsessed with catching Luke they'd be on the lookout for an X-Wing. Still, that's no plothole.

The third one is a bit lame. Luke wasn't a Master in the OT. You can say he became that later when he took on his first apprentice. Which Yoda asked him to do. No plothole.

The 2nd one is a goody. So the Empire got to the Falcon & only deactivated its hyperdrive?? Why? Surely they should've disabled the whole ship. Why give themselves the hassle of a pursuit at sub-light speed all around the system? Which could result in the ships' destruction & the loss of valuable prisoners, should Han, Leia or Luke escape. The Imperials should've been shocked that the ship was able to fly at all. Yet you only have Vader asking about the hyperdrive. This seems like a contrivance to serve the plot. A way for Leia to get to Luke & rescue him & then get away. It's even messier when you consider that Lando ordered the repair of the hyperdrive, yet that was overturned or not carried out. So someone, either the Empire or a person loyal to them on Cloud City knew of attempts to repair the ship, yet still they didn't simply lock it down on that platform. Or disable its engines entirely.

The problem here is in the dialogue. Vader asked "Did your men deactivate the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon?" Without doubt this tells us that the Imperials sabotaged the ship. Which then raises the question: why not disable the whole ship?
IMO Vader's line should've been "Did you ensure that the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon is still inoperable?" or something like that. Implying that the Empire simply blocked the repair of the already damaged hyperdrive. It makes more sense that they just prevented the repairs. Lando's comment backs this up: he ordered the repairs & they weren't carried out.

The only way I can square it is this, but it's a bit convoluted & not very convincing. The hyperdrive was already damaged. Lando ordered repairs, which were carried out. The Imperials then sabotaged it. Lando was unaware of this, thus his complaining that he was told it was fixed & it was not. In reality it seems it was, then damaged again. Why didn't the Empire disable the ship entirely? The only answer that springs to mind is that by damaging a hyperdrive that had already experienced recent problems, if this damage was detected before the Empire revealed itself on Cloud City it would not necessarily tip off Han etc that something sinister was afoot. However, Han would complain to Lando who would confirm that the repairs were carried out, which would lead to questions etc. This is all a bit dodgy & IMO is a borderline plothole. It would've been far cleaner & easier to simply have the Empire prevent the original repairs.

 

RE: ESB and the MF.

The empire could deal with the MF after they had arrested Han and co. They did have some time there.
One could also wonder how come the city computer knew about this?
Why would the empire inform the computer about this?
The need to fill in forms?

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

@Darth Downunder

Thanks for the heads-up - and the reminder that Mr. Hidalgo has up to this day not answered the question brought forward here at the JCF last year whether Vader was pursuing the Millennium Falcon because a) he thought Luke was on it (earlier ESB screenplay suggestion, reflected in the ESB novelization) or b) he wanted to use Han Solo and company as bait (radio drama suggestion).

Again, Mr. Hidalgo should do some explaining why he's grasping for plot hole straws in the OT to justify possible plot holes TLJ.

• According to a deleted ESB scene Vader's fleet destroyed 17 Alliance ships, so either by the time Luke was escaping they were distracted by some of these escaping ships or Luke used unconsciously the Force to evade Imperial pursuers or Vader's fleet didn't consider a single X-Wing worthy or pursuit (add to this its FTL capability to outrun Imperial TIE fighters).
• Why would the Empire want to disable the Falcon's hyperdrive in the first place? Lando had already struck a bargain with Vader that ensured that neither Han, Chewie or Leia would leave Cloud City aboard the Millennium Falcon. On the contrary, Lando probably wanted to keep the Falcon for himself and had it fixed but Vader probably wanted to make sure that Lando wouldn't escape Cloud City and had it still sabotaged. How the city computer learned about this is inconclusive. The Empire probably wanted to have access to the landing platform and the (smart) city computer figured out, that they'd only wanted to go there to sabotage the ship.
• How would Mr. Hidalgo know how much time Luke spent on Dagobah (or how long it actually took Millennium Falcon to reach Bespin)???? He wasn't part of the original ESB production and nothing in the original notes indicates how much time lapsed. Unless he has solid George Lucas evidence it's just a conjectural guess (as good as yours or mine) and I for one don't buy "the argument of authority" from him (especially if he isn't willing to provide feasible rationalizations for OT events, which IMHO should be first and foremost his job!)

 

Note Vader says "deactivate" not "sabotage". It could just be that the hyperdrive has an on-off switch - and Vader arranged for it to be switched off - and so all R2 has to do is switch it on again to get it running - since all the damage has been repaired by Lando's people.

 

The real plot hole is that you don't see the fleet when Luke departs. If you say that Luke left on the opposite side, why didn't the rest of the fleet go that way? See, at least Brackett had the right idea by having Vader pursue Luke and then shoot his X-Wing, damaging it as it goes into hyperspace and thinking that Luke is dead.

There might have been one more evaluation by Lando's people, who noted that the hyperdrive was out and had logged it in, just prior to Lando's coup, which meant that he had no clue that it wasn't fixed.

Lando had wanted it fixed because he had planned to let Leia and Chewie leave after Vader had left. Remember, Vader kept changing the terms of the deal.

LANDO: "Lord Vader, what about Leia and the Wookiee?"

VADER: "They must never again leave this city."

LANDO: "That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Han to this bounty hunter!"

 

If the Falcon had been unflyable, Leia & co. would have left it there and stolen another ship to escape in. By deactivating only the hyperdrive, Vader made it likely that the "escapees" would all be together on one ship that would be easy to scoop up.

 

Although Red Leader calls him Skywalker right in front of Biggs, who doesn't react at all. Also, Luke knows the false story about his father & he'd presumably know his father's full name. He'd also know that his father wasn't a blood relative of Owen. So why would he have the name Lars? Unless he was told his Dad was a terrible navigator & carrying his name would be an embarrassment.

Didn't Luke leave quite late? Maybe the Imperials believed they had the bulk of the Rebels in their grasp by then. Or perhaps they were focusing on the Falcon. I think he was just fortunate to find a window of opportunity. Don't think that's a plothole, just convenience. Plenty of those to be found.

That's very cool. Didn't know that.

To be fair he answered questions about plotholes RE all of the movies.

Lando would have his own ships to escape on if he'd wanted to. I can't see why Vader would care where Lando went.

That's a very poor job of preventing their escape. It's a wonder Piett didn't scream "Blast! How did they ever think of pressing the on switch!!!"

After they'd dealt with Han etc why would they need to disable the Falcon?

That's not bad. However it sure is a lot of effort to prevent them from escaping. Which would only happen if you assume they escape your clutches in the first place! Vader decided to keep Leia etc, & probably always intended that. Yet he's going to plan for them escaping? Instead of that why not just double the no of troops guarding them? If Vader was that much of a forward thinker he would've been clever enough to have a few Star Destroyers accompany the Death Star to Yavin, just in case. Etc.

 

But obviously someone told Lando it had been fixed:

LANDO They told me they fixed it. I
trusted them to fix it. It's not
my fault!

RED LEADER Are you... Luke Skywalker? Have you
been checked out on the Incom T-sixty-
five?

BIGGS Sir, Luke is the best bushpilot in
the outer rim territories.

Very good point, Biggs doesn't react to "Skywalker" so apparently that's the name he already used on Tatooine.

Exactly.

THREEPIO Your Highness, we must take this
last transport. It's our only hope.

Next they're cut off by the collapsing corridor, Solo takes them to the Falcon, Falcon leaves. Next we do see that "last transport" taking off (escorted by one X-Wing) with some other X-Wing pilots (including Luke) getting ready to leave.

 

Luke wasn't the last one to leave, though. I wouldn't imagine the whole fleet leaving just yet. There was supposed to be a scene of Vader ordering the pursuit of the Falcon on his way out of Echo Base. But still, it is odd and some would consider that a plot hole.

Right, read what I said.

There might have been one more evaluation by Lando's people, who noted that the hyperdrive was out and had logged it in, just prior to Lando's coup, which meant that he had no clue that it wasn't fixed.

Meaning that he was told that it was fixed, but he didn't know that one last examination found the error and it was logged in, but by that point, Lando had freed Leia and Chewie to rescue Han and didn't have time to read the report. Earlier before finding out that the Empire was there, Lando had told Han that there were only two or three things left to fix. Meaning at that point, Lando was aware that the ship would be done soon and after Vader was done with his trap, they could go on their merry little way. Lando was probably told it was done either prior to or after Han's torture, but before being frozen. This is why he is confident that once Slave I escapes, their only alternative was to get to the Falcon, which was closer and faster than anything the Empire had.

 

Soooo.... As per Biggs convo... My point stands. Luke being called Skywalker is a big plot hole (or at least pretty dumb if Obi Wan is hiding him the from Anakin/Darth etc). It becomes much more of an issue with the PT... Actually it becomes really really dumb then, just change his name already! But in TESB the emperor refers to Luke as the son of Skywalker (and by that point the secret script in GL's head knew the "I am your father" line) so again within the OT it becomes a big plot hole. The only time it isn't an issue is if ANH was a standalone film as per SW77.

Combine that with hiding Luke on Tatooine (Anakin's home world) and with the Lars family (Anakin's step brother) and it makes even less sense! No wonder the Jedi were defeated! However, they only became issues as a result of the PT.

 

I could agree if there had been any official indication that "Skywalker" is a very unique and rare name in-universe, but that's something we just don't know.

For all we know it could be the equivalent of our name "Shoemaker" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoemaker_(surname) - or another even more popular family name.
Add to this that Shmi Skywalker could have had relatives on Tatooine that Anakin might have been aware of,

 

Hmmm I think you are looking for excuses. IMO the way "Skywalker" is always referred to in both the OT "the son of Skywalker" and then in the PT, you get the impression (well I do) that it is not a particularly common name otherwise you need to qualify the surname by also always including the first name!

In the context of the PT hiding Luke on Tatoonie makes no sense whatsoever!

 

1. Obi-wan never changes his last name, either.

2. Why would Vader go back to Tatooine? There's nothing there for him.

3. It was an issue before the PT, because Owen was Anakin's brother and Anakin is Vader. So it wasn't just a PT issue. It was an OT issue.

So, the Jedi were dumb, but Vader didn't know about Luke until after he was exposed to him trying to destroy the Death Star? Doesn't seem so dumb, now, does it?

Lucas even said as much about fourteen years ago.

 

@darth-sinister you make a great point re Kenobi not changing his name...Massive plot hole once we know Vader was hunting down the Jedi across the Galaxy and would certainly be keeping his ears open for any clues about his old master!

Sorry I simply don't buy the "Anakin wouldn't go back to Tatooine" line. Even he would see some weird coincidence that he captured Leia's ship above Tatooine where his (step) brother lives and where (once we get the PT) he was from himself!

However, I agree re point on not being exposed or sensing Luke until the Death Star attack (Darth didn't sense any connection to Leia either).

Saying all that, if you were going into hiding you don't hide on the same planet the person you are hiding from is from, living with relatives and keeping the same name. You just don't!

 

What?

Kenobi was living an isolated life as a "strange hermit" near the Jundland Wastes, I doubt he even had a valif Imperial ID (he could use mind tricks, you know?).

Add to this that he had changed his name from Obi-Wan Kenobi to Ben Kenobi, obviously a (successful) attempt to cover his tracks. We might argue next how common or uncommon the name Kenobi is in the GFFA.

And let's not forget that Lucas took a lot of inspiration from Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, where a major plot device had been "hiding in plain sight". I think it's fair to say that the PT illustrated that concept sufficiently. So rather than a plot hole it's a nice hat tip to the greatest science fiction writer ever (according to Arthur C. Clarke...).

 

Ha from a certain point of view maybe. He wasn't such a hermit that Luke wasn't aware of him.

Lucas could have EASILY avoided any of this being a problem if Anakin had not been from Tatooine and not been related to the Lars. Simple! It was all too neatly tied together by the PT and has led to it opening up questions.

I would agree that Leia was "hidden in plain sight" as part of the royal family on Alderaan. Absolutely. And that all makes sense to me.

Sorry but leaving Luke with his step uncle was a stupid plot device that was paying fan service.

It would have been far better if the Lars were distant relatives of Kenobi and Tatooine had no connections other than that!

 

Just as absurd.

He's looking for Jedi who could be hiding in any corner of the galaxy. In any case it's not all about Vader. The whole Empire is a threat to Ben & Luke. Going by their real names is indefensible.

Yep, but in the PT Lucas had a chance to make sense of these types of issues. In almost all cases he didn't take those opportunities. & in many cases made them worse.

It's almost as dumb as having a decoy stand in for the Queen, & having the Queen pose as a handmaiden yet openly addressing her by her real name! But that's another problem, for a different trilogy.

 

As far as Lando goes, I always assumed it was like this:

Bespin techs fix the Falcon, tells Lando she’s all ready to go. A bit later, the Empire disables the hyperdrive. Neither Bespin techs nor Lando are aware of this. After all, it wouldn’t make sense for the tech guys to see that the ship was still broken...and not attempt to fix it.

 

^ I just realize we have all ignored that the Empire has seized control of the city's computer by the time they make their first attempt to get to the Falcon's landing platform:

LANDO The security codes has been changed!

THREEPIO Artoo, you can tell the computer
to override the security system.



(in a scene deleted from the film, Lando's aide Lobot manually tinkers with the landing platform's door and is taken into custody by two stormtroopers that are guarding the Falcon)

THREEPIO We can't? How would you know the
hyperdrive is deactivated?

Artoo whistles knowingly.

THREEPIO The city's central computer told
you? Artoo-Detoo, you know better
than to trust a strange computer.

 

Why would the Empire do that? They’d planned to arrest the Falcon’s occupants. Why only deactivate the hyperdrive? Why not the sublight engines too?

 

Where's the fun in that?