CT Plot Holes in the CT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013.

Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
  1. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yoda's "There is another" statement in ESB, combined with Ben's "The other Yoda spoke of is your twin sister" (later clarified to be Leia) in RoTJ, leads to the logical issue of -

    why does Yoda act like "teach the other" is a viable backup plan?
    At that moment, Leia is in captivity, and could quite likely be executed after Luke's been lured into Vader's grasp. Yoda has no reason to think she'll escape, at that point.
  2. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    Maybe Leia isn't really Leia. The same way Padme had a decoy in TPM, maybe Leia that we see on screen isn't the real Leia. Smoke and Mirrors, smoke and mirrors. Perhaps Yoda switch the babies and took the real Leia to Degobah and gave Bail Organa a random baby to raise. I'm not saying this is true, but it's not out of the question either is it?
    Son of a Bith likes this.
  3. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    As a standalone trilogy, there were no plot holes in the OT. The same as if the PT was a standalone trilogy. The fact there are, is due to poor story writing. If the tie ins to the OT had been done properly and were seamless then there would be no need for the debates. In fact, come to think it, if the whole PT had been done pro..no I won't go there ;)
  4. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    It's almost like PT fanboys are pretending that ep I-III actually came before Ep VI-VI. But that couldn't be what's happening, right? That would literally mean they don't have a grasp on reality, and surely they aren't... crazy.
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Vader's "They must be trying to return the stolen plans to the princess" conclusion in ANH is a bit dubious- it makes it seem like he thinks the Rebels are complete idiots.

    Especially since they weren't trying to return them to her- they were trying to deliver them to her (foster) father.

    But that's less a plot hole and more a moment of dubious logic on Vader's part.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Mar 25, 2013
  6. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Leia remembering Padme was a giant plot hole that should have never happened. Knowing that OT was the first, Lucas should have done a better job on that in ROTS.

    Vader not remembering the droids looked silly to me. The droid he constructed himself and the droid which drive his airship for years. Though this can be explained that he just didn't want to comment on it, like that time was part of an another life. Knowing Darth Vader, that totally makes sense.

    Imperials losing after the death of Palps in some way makes sense to me. In the Thrawn Trilogy it clearly says that Palps was using a form of battle meditation (using Dark Force to control the entire navy) and in the moment of his death, then the Imperials didn't know what to do. For me, Thrawn Trilogy is as canon as the movies so I don't have that much problem on it. Also, in that fight died the second in command (Darth Vader) and who knows how many leaders. Also, I don't know how many Grand Admirals were there (though I know that Thrawn surely wasn't). And finally seeing the ultimate weapon being destroyed with the two most powerful being on the universe on it, would surely make all others be afraid and lose the morale.
  7. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    In regards to Leia remembering her mother, I recall someone saying she was remembering her adoptive mother. But Luke clearly asks about her 'real' mother. So, PLOTHOLE
    As for the Imperial Fleet. The question is 'Whats the point? Why bother to continue to fight? The Emperors gone, Vaders gone and the Death Stars in a billion pieces. Gotta remember in the OT they were all just normal dudes who probably got conscripted by the Empire.
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Plotholes in the Original trilogy was what was asked for-

    not "plotholes that appear in the Original Trilogy when the Prequel Trilogy is taken into account"
  9. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah but, is Yoda even aware Luke and Leia have met at that point? I don't think so because as Luke takes off to head for Bespin, that's when Yoda says 'there is another'. So logically, Luke hasn't mentioned her and Yodas unaware they've met.
  10. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Yes, it doesn't make sense. Luke was asking her if she reminded her mother cause Luke wanted to know about his mother. If Leia was talking for his adaptive mother, well it doesn't answers Luke questions. Also, where did Bail's wife died? I don't think that she died when Leia was young, probably she died with Bail in the destruction of Alderaan.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yoda: "You must not go!"
    Luke: "But Han and Leia will die if I don't!"
    Ben: "You don't know that. Even Yoda cannot see their fate."

    Later

    Ben: "Patience."
    Luke: "And sacrifice Han and Leia?"
    Yoda: "If you honor what they fight for? Yes."
  12. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Fair play my bad. Haven't watched them in a while so my memory is, a little sketchy.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  13. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    But then again. Did Yoda know the name of the sister? Just a thought
  14. Endor_Commando Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2007
    star 1
    Awesome ! Yes, it seems that certain story elements in the PT went ahead without anyone mentioning that some plot points do not tie in with scenes or dialogue from the OT. Some of the plot holes mentioned in this thread, I see as mistakes in the PT script.
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That "better job" looks like this:

    Option #1: Padme takes off with Leia at the end of ROTS. We never see her fate.
    Option #2: ROTS, instead of ending in 19 BBY, goes on into an anticlimactic fourth act which goes a few years into the Dark Times.

    Neither of these options work, cinematically speaking.
    Seagoat likes this.
  16. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Dying from a broken heart because she lost the will to leave is even more cheap than the first option.
    Captain Tom Coughlin likes this.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Having a main character just take off and never seeing her death would be completely lame. Juxtaposing her death with the "birth" of Vader was a far superior option, which doesn't create the plot hole people think it does.
  18. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Option #1 could've worked if. Obiwan sensed the force was stronger in Luke so explained to Padme what their plan for him was. This could've explained why Leia said she remembered her looking sad. (Obviously the Anakin thing aswell) but being split fom her son at birth contributed. And remember the Emperor had told Vader that Padme was dead so he wouldn't have been actively seeking her.Also, Padme, Leia and Bail didnt retreat to Alderaan straight away. Maybe Padme died while they were in hiding and it was only THEN that Bail returned to Alderaan with her.
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The reason it doesn't work is because we have a major character death off-screen between trilogies. Lucas would have been criticized endlessly for that, believe me.
  20. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Would you accepted that though?
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  22. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Well it's more plausible than the crap I saw AND it ties in with the mother question in ROTJ. IMO
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I didn't say it wasn't plausible. It's totally plausible, just lame.
  24. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    It's not perfect, far from it, but still it is a lot better than what did actually happened and doesn't contradict the OT.

    Dying from the broken heard, and the Vader's NOOOOOOOOO were the worst scenes in the entire trilogy. If GL wanted to kill Padme, he should have let Anakin killed him, not going with that stupidity he did.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    "She died when I was very young."

    Technically, 2 minutes is "very young" ;)
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face