CT Plot Holes in the CT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013.

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  1. MaggieSolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2009
    star 1
    Leia isn't on a diplomatic mission -- she says this but she's lying to Vader.
  2. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".
  3. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe that's what Imperial Senators are for in the first place- to act as representatives and "go-betweens" when tensions arise between two worlds or more.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  4. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Nope. Luke was 2 minutes older than Leia and much stronger in the force. If he couldn't remember her, Leia had no chance. Unless he went with Bail to Naboo and saw the dead Padme.
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Where are you getting the idea that "Luke was much stronger in the Force" at that point from?
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  6. MaggieSolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2009
    star 1
    I have wanted an answer to this question for 30+ years...[/quote]

    Leia isn't on a diplomatic mission -- she says this but she's lying to Vader.[/quote]

    I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".[/quote]

    Ok, I just looked up the script and now I have to agree with you. I was going to say, maybe the lie was they were returning to Alderaan after a diplomatic mission but:

    LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the

    Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...


    VADER: You're a part of the Rebel Alliance...and a traitor. Take her

    away!


    So, the only guess I could make, and it really is a long shot, is that they are going to Alderaan to discuss something that is happening in the Senate and figure out an official policy to come back at the Senate with....? Yeah, lame.
  7. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Her death was utterly ridiculous.
  8. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Leia isn't on a diplomatic mission -- she says this but she's lying to Vader.[/quote]

    I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".[/quote]

    Ok, I just looked up the script and now I have to agree with you. I was going to say, maybe the lie was they were returning to Alderaan after a diplomatic mission but:

    LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the

    Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...


    VADER: You're a part of the Rebel Alliance...and a traitor. Take her

    away!


    So, the only guess I could make, and it really is a long shot, is that they are going to Alderaan to discuss something that is happening in the Senate and figure out an official policy to come back at the Senate with....? Yeah, lame.[/quote]

    They weren't on any diplomatic mission of any kind, they were lying. And Vader knows this, it's why he asks about the ambassador when he chokes that guy
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 25, 2013
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  9. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    So what your saying is they only become strong in the force when they get to a certain age? Their not born being strong with the force? It's just something that maybe happens when they get a bit older?
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    What I'm saying is- there's no reason to assume Luke is stronger than Leia when they're both babies.

    If strength is something that can be increased by training- then after Luke receives training from Ben, he's "stronger" in that sense- but until then, there's no reason to believe they're not equal.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Neither does what actually happened.

    Not stated in the film.

    Him? :eek::p
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    What's stated by the droids in the film is "She has lost the will to live".

    That could just be a generic answer they give when they have no idea.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  13. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Maybe the assumption was the son would be a better bet. Or maybe he did a midi chlorian test on them and found Luke's count was higher and he was the better bet
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The question was "Why does Leia remember Padme when Luke doesn't"? and a counterargument was "It shouldn't work that way, since Luke is much stronger in the force".

    My answer to that counterargument was- there's nothing onscreen that says that.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  15. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    How does the droid know about human 'will'? It's a droid. It should have said I don't why she's died? I'm not programmed to give an opinion
  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    She died of bad writing.
    TheRevanchist and MaggieSolo like this.
  17. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That's why I suggested it was a generic, programmed answer.

    Unknown cause of impending death? Droid parrots "Person has lost the will to live".
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    There are some things droids would have no knowledge of...
  19. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    It has no understanding of the concept of a persons 'will'. Whoever builds and programmes these droids had the foresight that if it were to ever be in a situation it can't understand and cant be explained through medical science, it would put the persons death down to 'losing the will to live'? Oh well, that's that explained then.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It's a hypothesis.

    Other hypotheses might actually require the droid to understand the concept of a person's will, to say that.

    Even in real life- doctors can be baffled- why not in fiction?
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Mar 25, 2013
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  21. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    The droid is giving us it's medical opinion. It's just a terrible scene. Lucas clearly wanted to mirror Padme's death with Anakin's "death" and transformation into suited Vader. He just didn't explain her death very well. Visually it works, but as story is a hacky mess.
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The droid precedes it with "Medically, she is perfectly healthy. For reasons we are unable to explain, we are losing her", as I recall.
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  23. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, that was the gist of it
  24. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Agreed. Still think it was 'weak' and that she shouldn't have died.
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He doesn't want to let on that he steals a lot of stuff from books and video games.
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