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CT Plot Holes in the CT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. MaggieSolo

    MaggieSolo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Leia isn't on a diplomatic mission -- she says this but she's lying to Vader.
     
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  2. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".
     
  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe that's what Imperial Senators are for in the first place- to act as representatives and "go-betweens" when tensions arise between two worlds or more.
     
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  4. TheRevanchist

    TheRevanchist Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Nope. Luke was 2 minutes older than Leia and much stronger in the force. If he couldn't remember her, Leia had no chance. Unless he went with Bail to Naboo and saw the dead Padme.
     
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Where are you getting the idea that "Luke was much stronger in the Force" at that point from?
     
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  6. MaggieSolo

    MaggieSolo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2009
    I have wanted an answer to this question for 30+ years...[/quote]

    Leia isn't on a diplomatic mission -- she says this but she's lying to Vader.[/quote]

    I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".[/quote]

    Ok, I just looked up the script and now I have to agree with you. I was going to say, maybe the lie was they were returning to Alderaan after a diplomatic mission but:

    LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the

    Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...


    VADER: You're a part of the Rebel Alliance...and a traitor. Take her

    away!


    So, the only guess I could make, and it really is a long shot, is that they are going to Alderaan to discuss something that is happening in the Senate and figure out an official policy to come back at the Senate with....? Yeah, lame.
     
  7. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Her death was utterly ridiculous.
     
  8. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Leia isn't on a diplomatic mission -- she says this but she's lying to Vader.[/quote]

    I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".[/quote]

    Ok, I just looked up the script and now I have to agree with you. I was going to say, maybe the lie was they were returning to Alderaan after a diplomatic mission but:

    LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the

    Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...


    VADER: You're a part of the Rebel Alliance...and a traitor. Take her

    away!


    So, the only guess I could make, and it really is a long shot, is that they are going to Alderaan to discuss something that is happening in the Senate and figure out an official policy to come back at the Senate with....? Yeah, lame.[/quote]

    They weren't on any diplomatic mission of any kind, they were lying. And Vader knows this, it's why he asks about the ambassador when he chokes that guy
     
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  9. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    So what your saying is they only become strong in the force when they get to a certain age? Their not born being strong with the force? It's just something that maybe happens when they get a bit older?
     
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    What I'm saying is- there's no reason to assume Luke is stronger than Leia when they're both babies.

    If strength is something that can be increased by training- then after Luke receives training from Ben, he's "stronger" in that sense- but until then, there's no reason to believe they're not equal.
     
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  11. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Neither does what actually happened.

    Not stated in the film.

    Him? :eek::p
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    What's stated by the droids in the film is "She has lost the will to live".

    That could just be a generic answer they give when they have no idea.
     
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  13. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Maybe the assumption was the son would be a better bet. Or maybe he did a midi chlorian test on them and found Luke's count was higher and he was the better bet
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The question was "Why does Leia remember Padme when Luke doesn't"? and a counterargument was "It shouldn't work that way, since Luke is much stronger in the force".

    My answer to that counterargument was- there's nothing onscreen that says that.
     
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  15. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    How does the droid know about human 'will'? It's a droid. It should have said I don't why she's died? I'm not programmed to give an opinion
     
  16. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    She died of bad writing.
     
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  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That's why I suggested it was a generic, programmed answer.

    Unknown cause of impending death? Droid parrots "Person has lost the will to live".
     
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  18. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    There are some things droids would have no knowledge of...
     
  19. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    It has no understanding of the concept of a persons 'will'. Whoever builds and programmes these droids had the foresight that if it were to ever be in a situation it can't understand and cant be explained through medical science, it would put the persons death down to 'losing the will to live'? Oh well, that's that explained then.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It's a hypothesis.

    Other hypotheses might actually require the droid to understand the concept of a person's will, to say that.

    Even in real life- doctors can be baffled- why not in fiction?
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  21. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    The droid is giving us it's medical opinion. It's just a terrible scene. Lucas clearly wanted to mirror Padme's death with Anakin's "death" and transformation into suited Vader. He just didn't explain her death very well. Visually it works, but as story is a hacky mess.
     
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The droid precedes it with "Medically, she is perfectly healthy. For reasons we are unable to explain, we are losing her", as I recall.
     
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  23. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Yes, that was the gist of it
     
  24. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Agreed. Still think it was 'weak' and that she shouldn't have died.
     
  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    He doesn't want to let on that he steals a lot of stuff from books and video games.