CT Plot Holes in the CT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013.

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  1. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Also- weren't we talking earlier about plot holes in the OT that have nothing to do with the PT? Refutations of the "Until you invoke the PT, the OT has no plot holes" claims?
  2. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    Just gonna say about the Leia remembers Padme thing -

    There's a reason they always showed Luke with his eyes closed and Lei with hers open. In fact, in the novelization, which was based directly on the script, it stated something along the lines of the newborn Leia looking all around, "as if trying to remember every detail". Considering her innate Force sensitivity, I would not be surprised if she did indeed remember her mother for the 5 minutes she knew her.

    Now, moving on...
  3. MaggieSolo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2009
    star 1
    OP:I will attempt to speak for both of us quoted when I say: The point is still that it is an absurdly unintelligent lie, then. Vader could have intended a dual meaning behind "You weren't on any mercy mission this time".[/quote]

    Maggie: Ok, I just looked up the script and now I have to agree with you. I was going to say, maybe the lie was they were returning to Alderaan after a diplomatic mission but:

    LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the

    Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...


    VADER: You're a part of the Rebel Alliance...and a traitor. Take her

    away!


    So, the only guess I could make, and it really is a long shot, is that they are going to Alderaan to discuss something that is happening in the Senate and figure out an official policy to come back at the Senate with....? Yeah, lame.[/quote]

    CTC: They weren't on any diplomatic mission of any kind, they were lying. And Vader knows this, it's why he asks about the ambassador when he chokes that guy[/quote]

    REPLY: I know, that's what I was saying at first (see second line). I guess what I' saying now is it is a bad lie because who goes on a diplomatic mission to their own planet, as the original posters were saying. I dunno, maybe it could be PART of a diplomatic mission. But, as we all know they were going to Tatooine to find Obi Wan Kenobi, who is our only hope.;)
  4. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    Maggie: Ok, I just looked up the script and now I have to agree with you. I was going to say, maybe the lie was they were returning to Alderaan after a diplomatic mission but:

    LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the

    Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...


    VADER: You're a part of the Rebel Alliance...and a traitor. Take her

    away!


    So, the only guess I could make, and it really is a long shot, is that they are going to Alderaan to discuss something that is happening in the Senate and figure out an official policy to come back at the Senate with....? Yeah, lame.[/quote]

    CTC: They weren't on any diplomatic mission of any kind, they were lying. And Vader knows this, it's why he asks about the ambassador when he chokes that guy[/quote]

    REPLY: I know, that's what I was saying at first (see second line). I guess what I' saying now is it is a bad lie because who goes on a diplomatic mission to their own planet, as the original posters were saying. I dunno, maybe it could be PART of a diplomatic mission. But, as we all know they were going to Tatooine to find Obi Wan Kenobi, who is our only hope.;)[/quote]
    She says she's a "member of the Imperial Senate" she does not say she's the senator for Alderaan. So she culd have just been a high ranking administrator. So whilst it is designed as a lie, there could still be some truth to it.

    What bothers me since seeing the PT is that Vader/Anakin doesn't think it's a bit of a coincidence that they happen to be near Tatooine - the planet he was born on. Does he not sense Luke/Obi-wan's force presence?
  5. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    Last edited by Darth Vader's Chest Plate, Mar 25, 2013
  6. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    The problem being that while newborn children can open their eyes at birth, they can only focus eight to twelve inches in front of them, so most of what they see is heavily blurred. Stover did try rather manfully to paper over this hole, but newborn Leia wouldn't be seeing much, and if she did see, it wouldn't have been in colour. Doubt it'd be enough to say "she was very beautiful, kind, but sad." But hey: seeing as Lucas was prepared more or less to throw out Grey's Anatomy for the sake of that scene anyway -- I'm still looking for the section that refers to the part of physiology called "the will to live" -- we can probably forgive this.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Mar 25, 2013
    Jcuk and Captain Tom Coughlin like this.
  7. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    Why not. It would have make perfectly sense and would have made a better job in the transformation of Anakin into Vader. Don't forget that Anakin just some time ago has just murdered a lot of children, was partially responsible for the destruction of the Jedi and was very willing to kill Kenobi. In fact he almost killed Padme. If GL wanted Padme to be dead in ROTS, it would have been much better if she was totally killed by Anakin, rather than stupidity of losing the will to live. In the end, in ROTS novelization Anakin says/thinks that sometimes trying to change the fate can make you entirely responsible for that. It would have been much better, if Anakin who turned everything he believed in to save Padme, to kill Padme.
    Captain Tom Coughlin likes this.
  8. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, that would have been better.
  9. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Why did it take so long after ROTS for Sidious to build the deathstar and when it was destroyed in ANH they had another one up and running by ROTJ. Also, the rule of two- in ROTJ what if they turned Luke, what would've happened to Vader? At one point Vader even says Sidious is Lukes master now.
  10. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    I usually agree with what you post CTC, but how would you have Anakin kill Padme? literally? Like do her with the lightsabre or choke her to death or something? Then what about the babies? Please explain.
  11. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Which is true.
  12. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    NOT.
  13. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    The choke could have caused an injury. Instead of her losing the will to live, the droid could have said it was amazing she lived long enough to she the birth of her children. That makes Anakin directly responsible for her death, and avoids this silly losing the will to live line.

    My ideal would have been for her to go off with Leia. But if she had to die, Anakin killing her as suggested above me would have been better than what we got.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 26, 2013
  14. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Agree 100 %
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    This was the OP.
    This is a claim that there are no plot holes in the OT:
    Can this claim be refuted?
  16. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    In my 'humble' opinion? No.
  17. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4
    Think about any product that has ever been invented. You know that it had to have taken a long time for the Wright Brothers or Henry Ford to get the mechanics right to build the Airplane/Automobile. But once they got it down, it didn't take as long...
  18. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Okay, I'll bite: can you provide a logical, in-universe explanation for Luke's plan to rescue Han from Jabba?
  19. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    The Family Guy spoofs are probably a gold mine -- e.g. "We're evacuating into outer space, with literally infinite directions in which to flee. However, we have decided that our transports will travel directly toward the fleet of Star Destroyers. Any questions?".
  20. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Sounds like a slasher film. The stupidity of losing the will to live? Do you believe that human beings are incapable of this?




    And it is a claim that I do not believe.
    Last edited by DRush76, Mar 26, 2013
  21. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    That a mother of newborn twins dies because she lost the will to live? Yes, it's absurd
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  22. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    To better understand your query, I need to know why you thought there was something questionable about it?
  23. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Some basic issues:
    • Why did the plan involve turning so many other people over to Jabba, especially if Luke wanted a peaceful resolution? Suppose Jabba had accepted Luke's initial offer to negotiate. How did he plan to get the droids back in that case? Likewise, what about Chewie? Leia unfreezing Han may have not been part of the original plan, but either way it's hard to see how adding someone else to the rescue list was the best way for her to infiltrate the palace.
    • On the subject of the droids, what possible reason did Luke have for storing his lightsaber inside Artoo?
    • How did Luke not know about the rancor? Was Lando not providing them any information? If so, why was he there well before everyone else?
  24. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    It can be perceived in many ways. But for me, Jabba is a feared and very powerful gangster. And his palace is bound to have some dangerous people in there right? Luke, no matter how good a Jedi he thinks he is, knows the whole 'peaceful solution' could go tits up. And why Luke was completing his training on Dagobah what was everyone else supposed to do just sit around waiting for Him to turn up with a plan? They tried and failed. So now Luke turns up to just find the droids who tell him what's been happening and that no one has returned. Luke devises a plan to use the droids as a gift and convey his offer prior to him arriving. He more than likely knows that his offer will be rejected by Jabba but he's got to try something. Giving R2 the lightsabre is back up, because if he himself were to get captured (which incidentally IS what happens) then his lightsabre would been kept or even destroyed by Jabba.
    KilroyMcFadden likes this.
  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I hadn't considered that, actually. Good point.
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