ST Plot Holes In The ST

Where does it say or show in the film that they tracked the Falcon at all? Command weren't informed - Hux didn't know about the Falcon until they looked at it through the shuttle window. So we don't know whether the Star Destroyers were aware of the Falcon or not.

Where does it say or show in the film that there were any Star Destroyers in orbit? The last we see is a lot of chaos and destruction in the fleet. Given that the ground forces were a few minutes from accessing the mine and finishing the Rebellion, not having the new tracking tech active on an alternative ship may be a questionable decision, but it's not a plot hole.

 

I'm not sure if this is a plot hole or intentional, but...

Rey apparently managed to find Kylo's location by using their Force bond. At least that's how it goes in the novelization. If the Force bond works both ways, Kylo should have been able to find Ahch-To. He figured out early that she was with Luke and could've tracked them down with only the Force.

So, why didn't he? Why did Snoke need to bait Rey and mind probe her to find the island when Kylo could've led the way?

 

I think it would be more than logical to assume that the empire had their fleet in orbit of the planet that the fleeing rebels escaped to. Its just another in a list of inexplicable moves the empire made that allowed the rebels to not be wiped out. From sending 3 TIE fighters after a group of rebel cruisers, to some how allowing the falcon to escape the planet that was supposed to be under siege. I've heard arguments that they only launched 3 TIEs in order to minimize losses, yet they showed up with a whole gang of star destroyers AND their massive flag ship just to take out a few rebel cruisers. If they're concerned with loses and don't want to "overkill", then they would've sent only 3 star destroyers after them.

The logic here doesn't work. Sending 3 TIEs to attack a group of capital ships seems laughable at best. Not overwhelming "echo base" with orbital strikes and TIE strafe runs are also things that are very questionable in terms of plot logic. The final bow on all of this is that the last remaining rebels some how escaped right under the noses of an invading imperial force. This is without mentioning how the imperials only attacked from one direction. This whole fiasco is further underlined by the fact that we've seen this exact scenario occur in earlier films, but with far more thoughtful writing. When the rebels were escaping hoth, there was clearly an imperial fleet in orbit. After all, why wouldn't there be? When the transports took off, they were covered by an ion cannon that disabled near by star destroyers long enough for the ships to get clear and make the jump to light speed. The earlier film made the point to show us that the rebels escaping a base under siege, was something that was planned and executed. They even showed leia going over the plan with pilots, one of whom expressed concern over the odds. In TLJ, we have the empire moving to wipe out the last of the rebels with under 20 TIEs and some walkers that spend most of the time standing around. Then a YT freighter takes off from the base and leaves orbit without any incident. Like...what? It just cuts to them already in hyper space as if its just a trivial thing to escape an imperial fleet that is desperately trying to kill you. I would call all of this a plot hole. It also cuts any tension as it feels like the empire is not actually trying to kill these people. The echo base fight in ESB showed that the rebels wouldn't stand a chance if they were just trying to hold out. Their whole strategy was to hold off the ground assault long enough for the transports to escape the system. They also showed how out gunned the rebels were as the ATATs cut through ground forces as well as the speeders. Before anyone can ask, "why didn't they overwhelm them with TIEs??!", the film explains that the extreme cold prevents both sides from using their primary fighters. This all lends itself to writing that is clearly very conscious of the story.

 

The speeders didn't work on Hoth. X-Wings and TIE Fighters operate in space which is a great deal colder than Hoth. The X-Wings were assigned to escorting the transports which is why they weren't in the fight.

Is the lack of tracking the Falcon a plot hole? Put another way, is there a reasonable or even merely plausible explanation as to why the Falcon wasn't tracked? I believe that there is:

The Supremacy was extensively damaged, so not unreasonable to assume the tracker didn't work.

Other Star Destroyers were also damaged.

Once the Rebels make it Crait, the First Order has to come up with a task force whilst dealing with the Holdo aftermath - damaged ships, emergency repairs, rescues and so on.

It is not until the ground battle is well underway that the Falcon shows up. Before then, there were no light speed ships to track. So with everything else going on restoring the tracker can reasonably be assumed to not be a priority.

There's no indication that the First Order tracked the Falcon arriving at Crait. There's no message from the Star Destroyers, they spot it through the window.

I don't see anything implausible in the above, so it's not a plot hole.

 

Revised scenario on the bridge of SD#3

minion: "Sir! There's a rebel freighter about to break atmosphere."
captain: "move us to within range."
minion: (*shakes his head) "No good, sir! The movie ends in just 22 seconds!"

 

that sounds like something straight out of spaceballs.

 

This is a really good point. Even before the novel, I thought that he was going to use the bond as way to track her and Luke (especially when the water carried over to his space; if matter like that can travel, why not a person?).

Unless Snoke wanted to separate Rey from Luke as a power move (until he read Rey’s mind he considered Luke an active threat from the light). Admittedly it’s weak and underminded by the fact that Snoke easily subdued her.

Then again, while Snoke may be strong in the force, he is very weak in the body (judging by the way he walks). I wouldn’t bet on him a in fight against Luke (who is both still strong in body and in the force when he bothers). That is why he is using Kylo Ren in the first place (Darth Vader was defeated by someone with Skywalker blood and thus Luke could be defeated the same way).

 

The movie literally states that they even had to work to adapt the speeders to the cold. As has been said countless times before, hard science is not something that is held fast to when it comes to star wars. The film uses hoth's environment to explain the absence of X wings and TIEs. They used ATATS because of the terrain. There is no reason for ATATs on crait as its surface is flat.

I wasn't even talking about the falcon being tracked. I was talking about how it even got into orbit in the first place. The film treats their escape like its a foregone conclusion, ignoring the massive lopsided stand off the film had set up. An imperial fleet in orbit, a massive ground force right next to them, yet they take off and escape with no incident.

Now that you mention it, the falcon shouldn't have been able to just show up like a ninja, not with the imperial presence. The only reason it does is so we can get that "look who's here to save the day" moment. Rey gets a tripple kill that wow's us, but glosses over everything the film set up in terms of the dire situation the rebels find themselves in. Once the story beats are through playing out, the rebels just leave, ignoring again, what was set up by the film. A massive imperial presence on the ground and in the space above. The rebels casually board the falcon an the next time we see them, they're already in hyperspace. I'd call that a plot hole.

 

Yes! I don't know how the First Order is managing to reign over anything because they are terrible at "strategery."

Also...where the hell is the Falcon for the whole standoff? It bursts out of the ground...and then disappears for twenty minutes or so. What was the plan of the Resistance without the Falcon? They've been dead from Starkiller - well, I guess 12 people surviving is better than nothing?

Every space battle in TLJ has elements that make no sense - either from sheer flying (Poe's turn in the first battle), the whole "they can't outrun us but we can't catch up," no auto pilot, Holdo sitting there on the Raddus not doing a damn thing while transports are destroyed, the whole circus not leaving D'Qar in the first place AND not having a planned fall back!

 

It seems like the excuse to everything regarding kylo ren's inconsistent writing is "he's unstable". (its nothing against you, we just see this from a lot of fans online.) Even if he's in a bad place during his fight with luke, the blue saber should've instantly caught his eye. I was in an unstable mindset after watching most of the film and even I was like "why is luke using anakin's....eff it, whatever.".

 

There was nothing to stop Luke from building a new blue lightsaber. And blue is one of the most common lightsaber colors. And the hilt was mostly covered by his hands anyway.

Also, given that Kylo never saw the destroyed lightsaber, he thought that Anakin's lightsaber was still in one piece, and it is very easy to assume that he thinks Rey gave it to Luke.

 

Your points about how common blue sabers are, etc. Doesn't excuse the simple fact that a student would at least take pause in the weapons his master/former master uses. If the
audience would instantly wonder why luke is using anakin's (blue) saber instead of his own green one, then luke's own nephew should've noticed as well. As for kylo never seeing the broken saber, that is never illustrated in the film. Kylo never seeing the broken saber is something that RJ had to explain to people after the film had been released. All that said, kylo also didn't seem to notice that luke hadn't aged since the last time they saw each other.

 

When Finn pulled the lightsaber on Kylo in TFA, he instantly recognized it, even though he had never seen it before.

 

Exactly. He’s only heard about it - maybe, now that Luke apparently was not around much when Kylo was a child.

There was a dropped plot that Kylo had found it and Maz stole it from him because otherwise, how could he have recognized something that was lost before he was born? Unless Han and Leia had home holos of all of them back in the day. Or, like everyone else in the ST, Kylo saw the OT and PT.

 

I was eager to reply with this running joke before I finished reading your post. You beat me to it.

 

As I said, there is a very simple explanation.

Kylo never saw the broken lightsaber, so it is very possible that he thinks Rey has given it to Luke.

 

He recognizes it on Starkiller Base - and yells that it belongs to him. If you cut out the idea that Kylo had found it and Maz had stolen it, which they did, Kylo has never seen Luke's saber - how could he? Unless he's seen Empire or Han and Leia somehow had holos saved on their datapads of the good ol' days in the Rebellion and made kid Kylo watch. Or Kylo found a trove of holos of Anakin somewhere that the Empire hadn't destroyed. And by then, we're doing too much work for the storytellers.

 

That is not hinted at or illustrated in the film. That is an explanation given by the director after the film was completed and released. If we could rely on directors and writers to explain away all plot holes, then the term "plot hole" wouldn't exist as every shortcoming could be covered by the words of the film makers after the fact. The director could tell us that there were spacial anomalies on the supremacy and thats why that guard's second knife disappeared into thin air when he had the chance to stab rey in the back. That is simply not how film making works. You create something that stands on its own two legs. You don't get to chat away all the things you over looked after the fact. The film they shot and edited had rey jump from the supremacy, to the falcon on crait. Jarring, but whatever. Kylo Ren not noticing his uncle not aging or the fact that he was using a lightsaber that was destroyed right in front of his freaking face, is a plot hole. That was an oversight on the part of the film makers.

EDIT: and both of those points are strengthened by the fact that TFA depicts kylo as someone who would notice such things. As others pointed out, he immediately recognized that finn was using anakin's lightsaber, despite that fact that it was being held with two hands. His very first line of the trilogy was (directed at lor san tekka), "Look how old you've become.". Yet, TLJ has him not notice his uncle looking the same as he did the last time he saw him, nor did he notice him using anakin's lightsaber.

 

Nobody had to explain to me what I saw. Kylo was knocked out for quite a while, and he never saw the broken lightsaber.

I did not even know that Rian had the trouble to explain this afterwards. I could reach this conclusion myself.

Given it was the most famous lightsaber of the history, and his teacher was the man who used to hold that lightsaber, it is quite possible it was described to him in enough details so he could join the dots and know it was the lightsaber he was trying to find.

Kylo is a collector for Vader stuff, He took the trouble to find the mask, and it is very reasonable to assume he knew the characteristics of the most famous lightsaber of all times.

 

I'm confused how Kylo didn't see the broken lightsabed. I thought he was the one who broke it.

 

He didn't see it because exactly when the lightsaber was about to break, Holdo was lightspeed jumping on the Supremacy.

It happened exactly at the same time. So it is not unreasonable to assume he didn't know it ended up broken.

Since Kylo and Rey were pulling the lightsaber on its axial end, he did not have the view we as audiences had of the lightsaber about to be broken in two.

 

thats a strange conclusion to make after watching that scene. Either way, there's a reason so many viewers asked the question, "why did rey wake up and just leave?" The last thing we see is the saber breaking and the flash of light. I don't know why that would read as "only kylo didn't see the saber break.". For a vast majority of viewers, it didn't read like that, which is why the director had to try and explain away the plot hole of kylo not noticing luke using anakin's saber. Even if he and rey never broke it, kylo still, logically should've been like, "why is he not using his own saber?". The explanation of rey giving it to luke doesn't make sense either as luke already has his own saber.

 

Also, as someone else noted, why not use the green saber, because that's what Luke tried to kill him with? Wouldn't that be more intimidating?

 

It's a strange choice, but maybe it was meant to be clue that Luke was not actually there.

Gotcha!