main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Plot Holes In The ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by zackm, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    It is so difficult to establish a proper discussion with a fellow user, when we see continued use of hyperboles and baiting, like claiming Kylo is Rey's "boyfriend"...
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    TCF-1138 and KembaSkywalker like this.
  2. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    yep...."nitpicking". Little things like ignoring emphasized deadlines should be ignored. Must not nitpick. Lets just enjoy our transf-err i mean star wars movie.

    I find it difficult to have a discussion when there are fellow users who can't seem to live with the fact that there are valid criticisms for a film they adore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  3. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Same way Leia "instinctively" used the force to save her life in space....trained jedi master should be able to do something similar.
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Just that if we reduce ourselves to that level of nitpicking we'll be whining about all of the SW movies. Which would make it hard to enjoy them.
    I can relate. I found that in a conversation I had yesterday.
    Leia's incident occurred within seconds. How long was Palpatine's entire journey to Mustafar? I'm playing devil's advocate here bcs all of these types of complaints are absurd.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  5. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015

    I'm guessing you're talking about the discussion where you tried to say that "colored people" are angry about the black panther film?
     
  6. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    The 18-hour fuel reserve deal happens a lot later in the film than some folks seem to remember, and Rey is on Ahch-To for a shorter amount of time than some seem to remember.

    When the Blu-Ray is released, we'll know for sure. But I remember talking about it in this thread.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  7. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    No it was where I posted some articles written by people of color who expressed some anger about the Black Panther film. Doesn't have a lot to do with plotholes in TLJ though, does it?
     
  8. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Rey started the movie already in Ahch-To.
    Even before the first scene when the Resistance is escaping the base on the ground, Rey was already there. She was there since the end of TFA.

    There is no way to say that everything we see happening in Ahch-To happens in parallel to what we see happening during the first part of the escape.

    This is alone more than enough to fully accomodate for the delta between both timelines.

    Kylo is not Rey's boyfriend. Saying this was not a criticism, and immediately breaks all good channels for a proper discussion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  9. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    No it doesn't have anything to do with the plot holes in TLJ. I don't know why you brought it up in the first place.

    I know she started the film there. After the 18 hour deadline is set, rey spends over 24 hours on achtoo. If you look a few pages back, I posted detailed summaries of the scenes as well as time stamps to prove that this is a plot hole. Naturally, people ignored that and started calling me a "pirate".
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  10. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I didn't mention it. You decided to play guessing games.
    Dubious assumptions. In any case, in these space fantasy movies if a so called error is not readily apparent without needing to calculate timelines then it's not a problem worth mentioning.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  11. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    How can we possibly know the exact amount of hours Rey stayed on Ahch-To? At no point this information is presented, how can you say that it was over 24 hours?
     
  12. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Getting back on topic. Has anyone figured how why hux didn't scramble every TIE in the fleet to swarm the raddus?

    Because day and night cycles exist on achtoo and are shown plainly in the film. Like I said, I already went though this song and dance a few pages back. Naysayers threw up a strawman. I'm not gonna detail all the evidence again. You can look back and see if you're interested. Or you can just continue denying the existence of any plot holes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  13. Dame sans merci

    Dame sans merci Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Well, we see Rey wake up having slept through the night, and her later confrontation with Luke also happens in near darkness. That suggests the passing of at least one day (although obviously we don't know how many hours there are in a day on Ahch-To).
     
  14. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Because the ship was out of fighter range - oh wait, Kylo Ren took fighters and attacked it.
     
    Blastaar likes this.
  15. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Hux mentioned in the movie, the TIEs were outside the protection range and were called to return. Without protection, the TIEs would be alone against the Raddus, and except their first strike which was lucky, all TIEs except Kylo were destroyed.

    But going back to the previous point, how can we possibly know the exact amount of hours Rey stayed on Ahch-To? At no point this information is presented, how can you say that it was over 24 hours?
     
  16. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Time & distance issues don't count as plot-holes in SW. Anymore than sound in space counts as one. Conflating time for dramatic convenience is a deliberate conceit used in all SW films.
     
  17. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Exactly: although obviously we don't know how many hours there are in a day on Ahch-To.

    Using real-world examples, how many planets in the solar system have a 24 hour day cycle? Just one. So it is not unreasonable to suppose that a day on Ahch-To has a different lenght than a day for other reference points.
     
  18. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Imperial commanders have never shown concern for covering TIEs in the past. If this is a sudden and new thing, thats called a plot hole. The enemy is intentionally not using tools at their disposal in order to progress the plot.
     
  19. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I assumed Hux was shown as somewhat competent in TFA. In TLJ he's all over the place.
     
  20. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    These are not Imperial commanders, they are from the First Order, why should them follow the same behaviour?

    The fact is that the movie says that the First Order is not willing to accept any losses to the Raddus, because the Raddus was too far for effective protection. This means that, for this universe, not losing the TIEs was important enough.

    Finally, I have mentioned how Snoke used the chase to torture Rey. And how Hux understood that victory would be just a matter of time, so there was no pressing reasons to hurry up and risk resources.

    Considering that all that is left of the Resistance is a dozen people crammed inside a single ship... I would dare to say that he is quite effective.

    No, in the movie Hux said: Kylo you need to return because you are outside the range we can provide effective protection for you and the other TIEs.

    Not the range where the fighters could go. The range where they could be protected.

    And to further even more this point, every single TIE is destroyed, except Kylo's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  21. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Where do we see her on Ahch-To for more than 24 hours after the 18 hour deadline?
     
  22. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015

    eh, your explanation is way too thin. I'm gonna have to add this to the list of holes. Them deciding to withhold their fighters in order for the story to basically copy ROTJ, would still make it a plot hole. The empire has over a dozen star destroyers, all with their own compliment of TIEs. This isn't even accounting for the massive amount of TIEs the supremacy is carrying. There's no logical reason why they're all sitting comfy instead of ripping through 5 cruisers. Their loses would be negligible at best. This is especially true considering the fact that 3 small fighters destroyed the entirety of the remaining rebel squadrons as well as blowing up the bridge of the raddus. The imperials could launch less than half their fighter compliment and utterly wipe out whats left of the pathetic rebel scum.
     
  23. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Someone explain why this timeline doesn't work for Rey's time on Ahch-To with reference to the 18 hour deadline.

    6:30am - First connection
    7:30am - First lesson
    9:00am - Second connection
    5:30pm - Lightsaber training
    8:00pm - Second lesson
    10:00pm - Cave scene
    11:00pm - Leaves island
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  24. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Huh? Even if it was a copy, which it was not, it would not be a plot hole, it would be a copy.

    The Empire was destroyed about 30 years before TLJ. So the Empire has zero star destroyers and zero TIEs.

    How many? Are they willing to use it for what good reason, considering that the fate of the Raddus was already sealed?

    The logical reason that they could be all sitting comfy and were destroying one after one of the Resistance cruisers. With no effort and no losses.

    The First Order would have zero losses if they just kept doing what they were doing. Why would them change a plan which incurred in zero losses, to a worse plan that would incurr in a few losses?

    Lucky strikes, and except Kylo which was using his personal TIE, the others were destroyed.

    The Imperials are dead for more than 30 years. The First Order was wiping out the Resistance very easily by just waiting and picking them apart.
     
    KembaSkywalker likes this.
  25. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    It certainly made for marvelous deflection away from criticism of the Greatest Film Ever Made. "Let's point out how shamefully BP portrayed unrealistic continental unity in Africa. Then everyone will see how truly progressive the cowardly janitor is as a role model for POC". It was brilliantly played.
     
    Blastaar likes this.