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Discussion Plot Holes In The Last Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by zackm, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    "What is she proposing?!" is made even better by the brazen-ness of the ADR and the possibility that one of the crew said it.
     
  2. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Indeed although,

    TPM - Actually never thought of that, they should have ignored the pitiful Naboo fighters and gone and wiped out the Gungans. Upon learning of the intrusion at the Palace, move the Viceroy to a secure location. I think this was owing to the poor strategic Nemiodian commanders. The battle droids were effective at battle, but were not programmed to strategise (thus a need for a tactician like Grievous or superior tech like Super Battle Droid B2 or Droidekas). I think the Naboo shields were strong and ship fast (Nubian you know ;) ) Launching fighters would have seemed appropriate though. Anakin flying in seemed pure luck agreed. The droid army switched off because it was explained they were commanded by a central command ship. A flaw corrected by AOTC. I think Droidekas should be the bulk of the forces. Agreed! And have a few regular B2's to man control points. I suppose, cost?

    AOTC - Yes Zam seemed stupid. I think there was a HISHE on that droid deactivating the window shield and blaster. I believe arrogance of Geonosians yes. Why didn't those droidekas just kill them even when the Jedi turned up? But otherwise the CIS got on with it when the battle came and the Jedi were beat if not for Yoda's arrival. Indeed it is the Jedi who don't surround and capture Dooku and let him get away.

    ROTS - I think Dooku and Palpatine ensured the Invisible Hand didn't jump away. That wasn't their plan right? It was all for appearances to set the stage for another duel. I believe Grievous was taking orders from Count Dooku as he says "Just as Count Dooku predicted" . As for Forcefield, it surprised them and I am guessing only used on that ship. Indeed it probably wouldn't stop multiple people as it's coverage appeared limited to a small area.

    TFA - why didn't Hux dispatch TIES to intercept Poe/Finn on their escape?

    TLJ - call for another Dreadnaught? "Give them everything we got!"

    I saw it as someone (one of the regular Joes/Poes and not an arrogant Council member) from trying to hear what Jyn was proposing. Save for one or two members, most appeared to interrupt Jyn and mock her for who she was without listening to her words/plan.

    But yes, it was a funny scene highlighting the politicking and lack of genuine aims/honour amongst many in the Rebellion.

    I wonder though could Luke not have arrived and did the blaster freeze thing Ren did?

    How did Finn/Rose get to hyperspace and escape the First Order? Couldn't everyone have done that?
     
  3. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    They weren't tracking a small ship. In the novel, it's also clear that Rose has also modified baffler tech so the small ships are effectively cloaked. Also, Holdo's plan would have worked had DJ not betrayed the Resistance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  4. KembaSkywalker

    KembaSkywalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Yeah, that bit is also in the Visual Dictionary I believe. She worked on developing technology that cloaks small ships from being tracked.
     
    Ricardo Funes and Satipo like this.
  5. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018

    whoa..no...there is a difference between a "fuel cell" and a "battery". The difference is that a battery stores energy while a fuel cell generates energy by converting available fuel. A fuel cell directly converts an energy source in to electricity through a chemical reaction

     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  6. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I didn't say a battery was a fuel cell. I said a battery is fuel. Fuel is far more generic than fuel cell. Your last two sentences demonstrate such an overwhelming ignorance to what you're talking about that I'm going to politely ask that you let this one go as to not embarrass yourself any further.
     
  7. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
  8. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I thought I understood splitting hairs and sarcasm until I browsed the ST forum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Blastaar likes this.
  9. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    No a battery isnt fuel. at all...like..google the damn definition before trying to point out someone elses ignorance. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when you said batteries are fuel by believing you meant to say fuel cell.

    Fuel (noun) - a material that is burned to produce heat or power.
    ergo..when someone says we are running out of fuel its in reference to the combustible material that produces power. When using the verb fuel you can say the battery "fuels" something but no..batteries are NOT fuel

    And i am so sick of your overly snarky attitude about anyone elses beliefs that dont align with yours. No sir YOU embarrassed yourself. I'm not going to stoop to your level of personal insults.
     
  10. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    That is but a single specific definition of the word fuel. It can be used far more generically. This is a common occurrence in the English language. Perhaps you should google the nuances of it.

    But the moral of the story is that whatever fuel they're using to power their engines is probably also being used to power the shields.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  11. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Stupid droids taking away everyone’s jobs. So maybe he’s just talking. It seems to be consistent behavior.


    He isn’t literally described as a janitor. He’s obviously a stormtrooper. By they’re very nature they’re elite. And he is chosen to go with Ren and Phasma on an important mission.

    I thought in the Disney canon novels and comics are canon unless there’s a contradiction. Where’s the contradiction?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  12. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Not this one again. Finn is not a janitor. As part of their training and regime, FO soldiers are rota'd onto menial duties as well as their active military duties.
     
  13. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Really?? Do offer up an example of the Noun form of fuel being used in such a nuanced way if its a common occurence. The definition i gave for fuel is in the NOUN form. Theres a VERB form that offers a wider array of definitions.

    and moral of the story is that they must be technologically far behind if they require fuel to run electrical systems. What if an asteroid or malfunction destroy the fuel tank?? Everyone would be screwed and all systems would shut down just because they ran out of fuel?! My 1967 runs electrical systems without fuel.
    It's unbelievable shield generators would run on the SAME FUEL SUPPLY that the engines that generate propulsion run on. Its poor ship design. Its illogical and i dont buy it.


    is that a movie source?? or a novel/comic...

    Movies trump novels and comics. Finn states himself in TFA that he's a janitor




    TFA finn says to Han that he works in SANITATIONS! What sense would it make to stick a highly trained war machine in SANITATIONS????????

    I guarantee you that not a single qualified Army Green Beret is currently stationed in a Quartermaster unit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  14. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Just seeing an argument and i gotta ask, how many of you assumed the rebels were talking about batteries when they said the word "fuel"? Just curious. To my knowledge, this whole argument stemmed from a person pointing out that fuel seemed a bit out of place in AGFFA. Am I correct in that? If thats the case, then what is so wrong about that statement? It doesn't make the film any better or worse. Its just an observation.
     
  15. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Well not fuel itself seeming out of place...my initial "argument" was that its a bit ludicrous for the shields to go down just because a ship ran out of fuel.

    My 50 year old car can still run electrical systems without fuel. Space ships should have some sort of power generator that runs independently from the engines that generate propulsion. It's simple engineering...you dont have all your systems tied to each other in such a way that when one thing fails everything else fails.

    He then asked how my car can run electrical systems without fuel...and i said it has a battery and then he claimed that a battery was fuel.

    I know fuel is still necessary in the star wars universe i just dont see how
    A) The shields and the propulsion engines use the same fuel...it seems like a MASSIVE design flaw no one would include...What if you run out of fuel in an asteroid field?? Not to mention why would you design your shield generators to burn the same fuel thats giving the ship its propolsion???
    B) The shield generators dont have a back up generator/battery to keep the shields powered in case a fuel line gets cut/electrical problems/fuel tank gets punctured etc.....

    It seems like no one even remotely thought about shiip designs...look at the difference in Wookiepedia entries for the MC85 Star Cruiser (raddus) and the TIES....the detail in the mechanical descriptions is definitely different.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  16. Starkiller17

    Starkiller17 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Finn is a stormtrooper and we have a movie source. The first scene in TFA where Finn is, you know, a stormtrooper. Second, when Finn straight up tell Rey "I'm not with the Resistance, I'm a stormtrooper."

    Now when he was stationed on SKB, he was assigned to sanitation. Not a big deal. Lots of soldiers get assigned menial tasks. Same with his position on the Supremacy.

    The fact remains: he is a stormtrooper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  17. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Green beret and a 92 golf (cook) are both soldiers.... Ones a killing machine with extensive tactical training.. The other goes through basic training and then just cooks at a dfac. Both are soldiers

    No one is saying finn isnt a storm trooper.. The question is about his status as an elite fighter
     
  18. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Ok then. That makes sense to me. Its a reasonable observation.
     
    Nadroj ilain likes this.
  19. Starkiller17

    Starkiller17 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Even so, it's really not out of the realm of possibility that, in the Star Wars universe, that FO stormtrooper are assigned menial tasks every once in a while.
     
  20. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    True. But how many Green Berets start out as elite? None. Basic training. So it’s possible that menial tasks are performed in Basic Training.

    Luke has to provide for himself on Achi-to. Elsewhere, how often would he have to search for food and cook his meals?

    So, maybe for mental discipline and survival skills Stormtroopers in training learn skills that are probably automated. Custodial engineering could fall under discipline if not disciplinary.
     
  21. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018
    But still.. In TFA he describes his role within the first order as sanitations. If he was an elite warrior he wouldnt describe his role as being that of a sanitations worker.
    The comics (i havent read them) seem to be describing him as some sort of elite stormtrooper. Thats contrary to what TFA tells us.

    I was a combat medic in the army.. Sure sometimes i mopped the clinic, sometimes i mopped the battallion and the brigade common areas... But i never had access to any top secret areas and i definitely didnt say my job was sanitations
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  22. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    I was light infantry. My roommate was medic. I remember doing menial tasks as well. Was his TFA role officially sanitations? And context? I can’t remember as its been a while. At the Resistanc Base or SKB?
     
  23. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Sorry. Too late to edit previous post.

    http://www.starwars.com/databank/stormtroopers

    “Elite shock troops.”

    And I think it’s reasonable Ren and Phasma will take their best with them on such a vital mission.
     
  24. Nadroj ilain

    Nadroj ilain Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2018


    Finn specifically says his job was sanitations. Now i know real world logic can only be applied to star wars so much but if cleaning was just a menial task of mine i wouldnt describe it as my main job.
    I'd expect him to say "i was part of an elite unit" "special forces" "infantry" or something and not sanitations. Your job was infantry...sure you mopped occassionally but that didnt make you part of sanitations and it was definitely not a part of your actual job description.
    There are soldiers who go through basic and have non-combat related jobs afterwards...cooks, mechanics, patient admins, dental hygienist etc. They're still soldiers but definitely not trained to the level of an infantry grunt, ranger, or green beret.

    movie canon trumps comics and novels no matter what. Finn being anything but a sanitations worker has never been mentioned.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  25. zackm

    zackm Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I think a key part of that exchange was "while you were stationed here". That leaves plenty of wiggle room for what Finn was doing while he was stationed on other ships.

    And Finn has been shown to be a Stormtrooper engaged in active combat in a movie. So regardless of what he was doing on SKB or on the Supremacy, we know for a fact that he was doing more than mopping floors.