CT Plot holes in the OT that weren't plot holes until they made the PT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by KilroyMcFadden, Mar 27, 2013.

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  1. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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  2. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Biggest one by far, Leia remembering her mother. That one bothers me.
  3. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    Ben Kenobi's apparent age being different always stood out to me.
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  4. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    And we were having the discussion the other day about Uncle Owen disproving of Anakin leaving Tatooine. That makes absolutely no sense at all
  5. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

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    Alec Guinness was born in 1914. He was 63 in 1977. He would've been a year younger than that during filming. I think Obi Wan was 57 during Ep 4, only making Alec 5 years older than his character, so not really that big of a stretch in age difference(granted Alec did look older than his age).
  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Kenobi wasn't given an age in the movie, so his apperence is the most natural way to judge his age. And given many of the other story cues we get from the movie about the apparent amount of time that has passed since the height of the Jedi, the PT does not match up well to this at all.

    19 years or whatever simply isn't enough time for what we see in the OT to have reasonably been true.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 27, 2013
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  7. CaptainHamYoyo Jedi Grand Master

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    I thought I read somewhere Obi was 25 during Ep 1, making him 35 for Ep 2, 38 for 3, 57 for 4. Could be wrong though.
  8. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    The character's apparent age, not the actor's age.
  9. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

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    Obi-Wan and Anakin being...friends.

    The force being mystical

    Anakin being a good person at one point

    C3PO and R2D2 not being recognized by Obi-Wan
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  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    See, but this is the thing though. Everyone on this board always wants to point to "I read this here, or Lucas said that there". The only thing I care about is what is in the actual films themselves. Those outside explanations, they don't count for much.
  11. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Yep, you don't teach the lesson that the physical doesn't matter, when in fact your connection to the force is based on force bacteria. That's a huge one.
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  12. Seagoat PT Trivia Tournament Game Host

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    *SIGH*

    The Midi-Chlorians are NOT the cause of the Force, nor are they the Force itself. They work the opposite way of how you suggest. They're an indicator of one's potential to use the Force, they do not determine one's potential, their potential determines their Midi-Chlorian count.

    Cleared up now?
  13. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

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    Those hot Tatooine suns aged Obi-Wan unnaturally.... or something.
  14. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    I don't need it to be cleared up, I've heard all these explanations before. They all fly in the face of Yoda's teachings in TESB, making his entire lesson a lie. Clearly, and example as called for by the thread title.

    No amount of rationalization by the fans, or Lucas changes that.
  15. Seagoat PT Trivia Tournament Game Host

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    No, Yoda is completely correct. He refers to the spiritual, mystic side of the Force, while the scientific side of the Force, more specifically the Midi-Chlorians, are like a by-product of the Force.
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  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    You keep telling yourself that.

    Yoda tells us that we are luminous, not the physical

    The PT tells us a Jedi's strength flows from a blood infection.

    Pure crap
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 27, 2013
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  17. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

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    That's not the impression I, my family, and three quarters of my LGS got from what was on screen.

    No, it's not cleared up. The movies > your opinion.
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  18. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    The simple existence of midiclorians as a concept flies in the face of Yoda's lesson to Luke. They are incompatible at a basic and fundamental level.
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  19. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    Anecdotal evidence isn't really much good for proving a point. I also got the impression that midi-chlorians were more of a byproduct of the Force than its literal "source".

    Midi-chlorians are a remarkably silly idea and there's a reason they haven't been mentioned much since TPM. Qui-Gon's explanation of the Force is certainly one reason to argue against a I-VI viewing order. But they don't really undercut Yoda's original speech as much as people like to think.

    They also aren't a "plot hole" anyway - that's things like the Leia line mentioned earlier.
  20. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Of course they are a plot hole by definition, when Yoda is teaching Luke about the nature fo the force, he tells him that we are not our bodies. That flies directly in the face of force bacteria.

    They are not a by product. They are a life form found in the living cells of beings, and through those life forms a connection to the force is made possible.

    Essentially, the exact opposite of what Yoda tells Luke. A plot hole. A giant one, and that is why people attempting to explain it away have to come up with concepts like "they are a by product". A transparent attempt to fix an obvious logic problem,

    That is what this thread seems to be about, logic problems in the OT caused by the PT. Well, force bacteria fits that bill to a T
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 27, 2013
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  21. Seagoat PT Trivia Tournament Game Host

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    As much as I'd love to say that's my opinion, I regret to inform you that everything I've said comes directly from George Lucas himself.
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  22. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    The sky is green. I can fly by flapping my arms. Jar-Jar is a popular character.

    Stating things as facts doesn't always make them true.
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  23. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    He says lots of things, it doesn't make it less of a plot hole
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  24. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    To what do you refer?

    That Yoda clearly dismisses the importance of the physical as a foundation of Jedi thought, and yet in the prequels we are told that it's about what's in your blood?

    Those are facts. Real ones
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 27, 2013
  25. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

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    Just because GL said it, doesn't make it less of a plot hole caused by the PT. GL designed these stories after all. Dude clearly wasn't concerned about internal logic in the movie, so why would he care about the internal logic of the movies in his off the cuff statements?
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