plot holes

Do you think we'll get answers to why things in the prequels don't match up with the original trilogy. I'm hoping they use the clone wars series to address these glaring issues which was more or less everything that anyone told luke in the original trilogy. It's kind of funny when you think about about it. These issues stick out the most to me: Obi wan's short term memory as he doesn't recognize R2(Then again you can chalk that up to him being an organic supremacist and hating on droids as we've seen in the new series), Anakin being a great pilot when he first met him (pod racing doesn't...doesn't count), taking it upon himself to train him( Qui-gon guilted him into it), being good friends ( how, he's always scolding him), "when I any diffenent when you trained me" ( When he was 5 years old?), etc. Then Leia says she remembers her mother, it just goes on and on, and it makes it had for me to enjoy the prequels (which is hard as it is).
At least the issue of obi wan serving under bail organa was addressed in wild space. And I hope these issues can be resolved with better explanations in the tv series. Lucas had 20 years to come up with explanations and apparantly it just didn't matter to him as long as he gets to tell the story he wants to tell, and it's up to us fans to pick up the pieces. So I hope the shows writers take some of this into consideration so we can watch the original trilogy again without getting a headache.

 

1)I wouldn't call 19 years of living on a desert short term memory.
2)Again, how are they going to fix that?
3)He and Anakin are good friends, evidence in episode III. Just because they fight alot doesn't mean they loathe eachother.
4)Leia is not even born, so I don't know how they are going to fix that

And besides most of the plotholes can be seen from a certain point of view

 

I could argue against all of those points, but it probably belongs in another forum. What they all come down to is that "certain point of view" anyway.

Basically I don't think you'll get all the inconsistencies fixed. It's a lot like a rash, scratch it and it only gets worse. Imagine any explanation that could possibly be given as to why Obi-Wan forgets Qui-Qon Jinn off screen in between ROTS and ANH that could possibly be fit into The Clone Wars, a show that takes place roughly 2-19 years before said hypothetical events.

I think those plot holes are better left untouched. If they are to be dealt with it should be in the Live Action series that is set in a time period that is better suited.

 

Agreed, if they try to touch on most of the listed points in TCW, it will only become worse.

 

Leia said she remembered impressions of her mother, "images really". Not like fond memories of walks in the park or anything. Anything else is from a certain point of view. If we are not mining EU sources, much is left unknown and off screen in SW. I would hate a poor attempt to explain something that doesn't really need explaining if you just sit back and enjoy the movie.

Of course, maybe we should just have Liam Neeson's ghost put in to TESB in the SUPER Special Edition! That would own!

 

lol, I can see Luke's face right now. "Who the hell is that?"

 

Would you consider Han, Luke and Leia good friends?

Don't they bicker in every damn scene of every damn movie?

Since when are (essentially) buddy cop movie friends like Obi-Wan and Anakin not allowed to bicker and argue?

 

Good point, best friends argue all the time, at least that is what I do!

 

Obi-wan does take it upon himself to train Anakin. Just because Qui-gon asked him to, doesn't mean Obi-wan has to defy the council and Yoda and do so.

Well if Pod racing doesn't count, how about his flying at the end of TPM when he blows up the droid control ship. I'm sure to other people that was pretty impressive to watch. Besides we see him hold his own in ROTS enough so that when people talk about him in the OT you believe that he was a good pilot. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing more awesome flying in TCW. I want to see him as the best star pilot in the galaxy... doing really amazing things like Han Solo does in the OT.

 

He still took it upon himself to train Anakin, and we don't know that he didn't recognize R2.

 

Surely R2-D2's not the only blue Astromech droid in the galaxy. Why would Obi-Wan have any reason to assume it was the same droid? Assuming he remembered him at all, it HAS been nineteen years, and Artoo was never that big a part of his life. And say he did piece it together, perhaps because seeing C-3PO and R2-D2 together sparks his memory, and R2's carrying a message from Bail Organa's daughter, what is he supposed to say? "You know, Luke, I saw these two droids a couple of times over the course of the Clone Wars. They were around when Darth Vader murdered your mother." Was he supposed to strike up a conversation, ask them how they'd been? He doesn't speak Astromech, C-3PO's memory's been wiped... he'd just look crazy. I don't see this one as any sort of plot hole.

 

Hallo all...hope you don't mind if I butt in....but your right in a way...in a very general way there's no reason for Obi-1 to remember 3PO or R2.

Except that if you look at the PT - he spent quite a bit of time with them. If anything I would expect him to remember R2...

Now in TCW - we are seeing an Obi-1 that has no "feelings" for droids. He tells Anakin a few episodes ago when R2 was missing - that he (Anakin) could get another droid. Was he crazy!?

So Obi-1 went from the PT appreciating R2 and 3PO (final secens of EP 3)...to not remembering R2 at all...

 

He doesn't say he doesn't remember R2, he says "I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid." Well, he didn't. Certainly not R2. I wager he knows exactly who both R2 and 3P0 are, but why Tattooine would he ever bring it up? What point would that serve, certainly not the point of view that he was about to throw at Luke. Certainly not a plot whole. Obi-Wan's just a liar... well he tells things from a point of view that will help him get what he wants. I seem to recall him also telling Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered his father... not entirely what happened there either.

 

Is it possible he recognized R2 but didn't want to acknowledge it? Not sure what sense that makes either.

Obi-1 a liar? For shame! The best of the best? Sitting out on that rock called Tatooine for almost 20 years, he just invented "another point of view."

 

I think most of these "issues" just point out the silliness in GL making a very out of the way planet the center of the SW universe. For example - If 3PO had to be introduced in Ep 1 - why not just have him as a protocol droid serving Padme in some capacity? Why did Anakin have to build him? What point did that serve? Why even did Anakin have to be from Tatooine? Couldn't he have been from another planet - and Qui Gonn/Obi/Padme land there in TPM? Why in the book are Obi and Owen brothers - but clearly not in the prequels? Why couldn't they have been brothers - makes sense then that Obi might take Luke there - but no, had to make Owen Anakin's step-brother instead. Little things like that.

The line Obi Wan says about "was I any different"... that can be explained by knowing that Yoda, while not having Obi Wan as a padawan, was an integral part of Obi Wan's training and did instruct him from time to time... I assume the line could even be interpreted to mean AFTER Obi Wan became a Jedi Knight in TPM when surely he relied a lot on Yoda and was still quite impatient himself.

But some of the other head scratchers in the SW story revolve around GL trying too hard (in my opinion) to try and have a very wide and expansive story boil down to a handful of characters that are all miraculously related or tied into one another... starting primarily with everyone/thing going back to Tatooine.

In the end... gives us things to talk about.

 

Exactly.

ANH established that he was from Tatooine.

We don't know that.

He doesn't seem very reckless after that point IMO.

 

1.)Even IF he remembered after 19 years of solitude why would he think its important to tell Luke? This is REALLY no big deal.

2.)Pod racing doesn't count? Oh really?! Doing something that no other human could ever do, being better at it than the champions in the sport and doing it at the age of 10 doesn't count?! and lets not forget how he pretty much won the space battle at the end of the movie when no one else could and SINGLE HANDEDLY saved the whole planet.

This is ANOTHER thing that fans have always been totally unfair about because they all love to complain about it but if Lucas didn't put the pilot stuff in than A.) anakin wouldn't have had any action in the movie and B.) it would create the plot hole of him not being a pilot. People think its unrealistic that a kid(the chosen one) can pilot a spaceship but they have no problem with using the force to make things levitate. The force was with him. period. after that there should be no more need for more explanation.

3.)He DID take it upon himself and in the movie we see WHY he took it upon himself -because of Gui-gon, and he didn't "guilt" him into it, he now believed in qui-gon for believing in anakin and rightfully so.

4.) They were best friends, master and apprentice and an unstoppable teem in the clone wars, we even learn that anakin thinks of obi-wan as a father figure and obi-wan thinks of anakin as his brother. The little arguments they have and bickering they do means no more than when R2-D2 and C-3po do it. Its the FANS that have been thinking up problems with the ani/obi relationship since 2002 and if they put just some of that energy into understanding that the bickering and competing make for a more interesting dynamic relationship that petting and hugging each other all the time would than this whole overrated complaint would not even exist.

5.)he was talking about alot more than 5 years,more like his whole life until the age of 12 or 13. he was talking about the whole first stage of jedi training witch is pretty much the most important part of jedi training as we see what happens when you go without it with anakin. and he was a little naive and impatient as a padawan -witch all jedi are.

6.)Leia did remember her mother because she felt it in the force. you can believe that the force can lift x-wings out of water but not let one have memories and/or visions of birth?

The fans have now had 10 years to understand these things but they apparently don't want to.

Really, is it THAT hard to cope with how Lucas chose to portray the answers to these questions? and yes all of them are

 

Ok, that post was like a blissful calm in a sea of madness. obi-rob-kenobi, I'd like to shake your hand.

 

I'm really growing tired of the "Obi-Wan forgot about R2 plothole" attack on the prequels. If you own a toaster, but move away and leave it behind only to come across the exact same toaster in twenty years, are you going to recognize it as your own? Seriously? Moreover, there's nothing to say that Obi-Wan forgets about Artoo. He's certainly deceptive to Luke throughout the whole OT; what makes you think that he's not just concealing the fact that he knows about R2?

 

WOW! Obi-Rob! I think I've got a couple of different swings on your great post....

You're right of course...it isn't a big deal, just one of those small flaws that Lucas missed when he moved into the PT... And why should he remember R2...all droids look the same, do the same jobs...except...isn't R2 a bit different? More, if I may say, independent? Was it important to tell Luke he knew the droid or ever owned a droid - nope. But why not just say something along the lines of "I've met many droids." Because R2 coming from Bail via Leia is very important. It connects the past with the present and future.

Agree...in one foul swoop, Anakin's extrodinary abilities had to be showcased...and what better way. I can't believe someone thinks the pod-race a waste of time...

Well...I'm with the guilt guys. For me the first remark Obi-1 makes when meeting Anakin, " Why do I get the feeling that we've picked up another pathetic life form?" For some reason that stays with me. For me his attitude throughout the rest of the film lays out Obi-1's lack of compassion, his coldness...and I don't seem to get away from it until the OT opens. I like that Obi-1 much more than the PT Obi-1.

No I wouldn't expect to see them exhibiting undue emotionalism, but didn't your teeth grind as they started talking to Pad in EP 2? If Anakin, the younger, impetitous boy-man, seemed disrespectful to Obi-1 - I saw it as a response to Obi-1's disrespect of Anakin. Yes, they are together the heroes of the galaxy and soon to be even bigger. Friends? I never get that feeling until EP 3...in the elevator. Finally for me there is a camaradie that I believe. Father and brother? Sure and as the father Obi-1 continually lecturing seems appropraite, but are fathers really friends to their sons?

 

MargoChandler - Well...I'm with the guilt guys. For me the first remark Obi-1 makes when meeting Anakin, " Why do I get the feeling that we've picked up another pathetic life form?" For some reason that stays with me. For me his attitude throughout the rest of the film lays out Obi-1's lack of compassion, his coldness...and I don't seem to get away from it until the OT opens. I like that Obi-1 much more than the PT Obi-1.

At first he was all business and wanted nothing to do with jar-jar as well as anakin BUT then he learned how right Qui-gon was and he even apologized to Qui-gon for disagreeing about the boy. Thats his little story arc in that movie. After all we all know that Qui-gon was indeed dead right about everything he ever sed in that movie so just add to that the fact that Obi-wans character was supposed to be naive and "too by the book for his own good" and there you go.

It wasn't guilt. He didn't say "aww man! now a have to baby sit this kid" at that point in the movie he legitimately changed his mind about anakin and believed that he was the chosen one because gui-gon believed it and as the chosen one he very well could have been instructed just as well as yoda. He even went as far as to tell yoda that he would train anakin WITH OUT the permission of the council if he had too.

See, what im trying to say is people wanted it spelled out. Because obi-wan sed in the OT that he took it upon himself to train anakin, fans wanted the satisfaction of him looking at the camera in TPM and saying the words "i take it upon myself to train him" but its unnecessary to just do that when the character already says that thats why he did it after the fact (in this case his speech in ROTJ). So Lucas chooses to show us the reasons FOR the reason why what the people in the OT sed happened happens. See what im saying? (i know that must sound terribly confusing lol)

This is the case with many complaints about the PT. Same thing with leia saying she has visions of her mother -she indeed has them or else she wouldn't say she does, maybe it was from just being in the womb but like a wise little frog man once sed- "though the force...things you will see, other places...the future, the past, old friends long gone."

 

At this rate, obi-rob, I may not have to post here anymore. You rock.

Nevertheless, I must complain that this has become a basic prequel/saga discussion, and no longer belongs on this forum. After a decade of these conversations, its really, really tired.

 

I have one question: How come Owen Lars didn't recognize C-3PO? And shouldn't C-3PO have remembered Owen?

Ah, anyways, not a big deal to me. Oh, but another thing that gets me is how in Episode IV they all refer to R-series as "R2" units, when the one Luke and Owen bought was an R4, hehe.

But still, I love SW, and none of those so called "plot holes" bug me.

 

I guess because the last time he saw him, C3P0 wasn't gold plated. On a side note, considering Owen's desire to keep Luke seperated from his past that, that Owen wouldn't have bought 3PO if he had recognized him.

No, he had his memory wiped under Bail Organa's orders at the end of episode III. (Trust me it's in the movie, not EU.)