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Discussion Poe Dameron & Rey and their dynamic moving forward in IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Ben-Solo, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Darkspellmaster

    Darkspellmaster Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    @Thrawn082 , I agree that it isn't the same. I have a feeling that a lot of the reason why we don't have much between all three characters is because Rian asked that there be space between them in regard to how they met and so forth for his movie. We know that he asked for changes in Episode VII to match with things that were going down in Episode VIII. I don't like it either, but JJ had to comply because the next story wasn't his. Now, however he can do as he wants. Maybe, after he's done with Your Name, he could come back and do his own trilogy with the Trio having them interact properly?

    That's a good point. Clothing in Star wars has always been important to the over all visual story telling. Episode VII had Rey specifically in the tan outfit to invoke Luke, [​IMG][​IMG]

    they put her in Hans outfit to note her connection to Han, and were probably going to see her in an outfit in the next one closer to what Leia or Luke wore in the next movie.

    Poe on the other hand seems to invoke both Cassian from Rogue one,
    [​IMG]
    and Han
    [​IMG]

    and Leia
    [​IMG]
    in various ways.

    For Han it's the darker jacket look he's got going on from Empire. Cassain also seems to have that look going as both he and Han were the smug, cynical, seen the world and think they don't care, types. Yet Poe is different. If anything, Rey has more of the cynic in her then Poe, who seems always to be optimistic about things and willing to help and care for others that he likes. Which is more like Leia than Han. But visually they group him with those types of characters, where as they put the optimistic hopeful colors of tan and such on Rey, who is optimistic, but also someone that can be very internally cynical about things and people because she's been hardened by the world she lived on. So It's interesting that they invoke that.

    Then there's the fact that with Poe, we see him in a lot of brighter calmer colors. Reds, whites, Yellowish, lighter browns, blues in TFA and more of a darker color scheme in TLJ, but it mirrors Rey's colors too. The more she goes down to darker colors, the more he goes down as well, ending with them both in the darker colors coming into the light! I mean, just look at the bolder scene for example with the color scheme in what is going on there at least in regard to their journeys. When Poe starts off he's in his flight suit, turning into the darker outfit we see him in for the rest of the movie. He also is visually shown in a darker lighting as the story progresses and he feels less and less in control of the situation. While this same thing happens to Rey. The more she falls down into that darker view, the more her look changes till she's wearing Black and gray.

    Then we have the whole cave sequence, where we have them both coming into the light. Rey lifting up the bolders, we see them over her head, then she looks, and he looks at her amazed,
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I mean look at this moment, she's happy to see Finn, but look at his face upon seeing those boulders move and seeing the reveal of her. It's, as weird as it sounds, very much like a gender flipped moment from the story of Amatratsu and the cave. So in the story, the sun goddess got scared of her violent brother the sea god, who was rampaging after she showed some sort of attention to a mare on earth. So upset was she that she ran away to the cave where she hid herself causing the light to not shine. During this time demons and darkness enveloped the land, and she refused to come out because of how she was feeling. The other gods and goddesses tried to come up with a way to get her out, and no begging or pleading worked. Eventually her other brother, later Husband Tsuki-yomi, god of the moon, got the idea of asking the goddess of laughter Uzume to help out. So Uzume went and put a mirror out and decorated around the cave with pretty things, and started a party, calling out to Amatratsu, that they had a new sun goddess. Amateratsu, feeling curious, came out and saw herself in the mirror and realized who they were talking about with all the compliments. They sealed the cave and she stayed out, pushing the demons and darkness away.

    Now, the scene here can be read as Poe and the other Rebels, were the ones sealed in the darkness and Rey, acting like the goddess of the sun, pulled away the cover of the cave and lead them into the light. Also, if you see her as the sun goddess, then you can see Poe as the moon god. Tsuki yomi is known for being gentle and caring and composed and, while not as bright as his sister, was able to shine as well. It was his kindness that ultimately won over the Sun goddess in legends. Given that the light reflects off Poe's face and it opens up in a way that one can almost say it's moon like, I would say these two circle the whole issue at hand, acting as two halves to the whole of the rebellion. Poe as the Moon reflects the light that Rey gives as the Sun, or inspiration to the Rebellion.

    Hope this all makes sense.
     
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  2. cappoe

    cappoe Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2018
  3. Darkspellmaster

    Darkspellmaster Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    I do too. It's a nice shot that's framed. Reminds me just a bit of Empire's end with Leia and Luke together. The other cool thing is that Rey and Leia are between Finn and Poe, showing that they're all being connected in a big web of things to come. I really can't wait to see what they pull out for the novel. There's got to be more to this. then what we saw in regard to their views about things that are happening on screen.
     
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  4. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2017
    Yes the novel to me is something that will hopefully delve deeper into the connections between Rey and Poe, and how the heroes (Finn & Rose, Connix, Leia) actually thought through decisions throughout the film and how those decisions affected each of them. Rey and Poe in this manner I believe are the most important in that the exposition of the scene (through script/novel) may tell us motivations and purpose.

    An example of this can be Rey and her decisions on the Supremacy when the pull was the biggest and (how her connection to Han and Leia, Poe, the Resitance, Finn etc.) helped define her growth in the film and how it may continue to evolve her relationships with them in IX. As to the scene I believe it one of the most powerful scenes in Star Wars because of what it means to the characters involved; Relief, hope, new beginings, new friendships/relationships and resolve to finish what they all started together.
     
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  5. Darkspellmaster

    Darkspellmaster Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    Wish that I can like this more than once.
    Great point on the novel showing how they feel. I wanna no what Poe was thinking when she lifted the rocks and saw her in the light.
     
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  6. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 5, 2016
    I hope their relationship is less toxic than Kylo and Hux's.
     
  7. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    [face_rofl]

    Almost anything else would have to be.
     
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  8. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    It will be interesting to see how much time passes between 8 and 9.
     
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  9. Darkspellmaster

    Darkspellmaster Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Agreed. I had wished that they would have had a more Thrawn/Paleon (and I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong) relationship going on with Ben and Hux. But I'd explain more in the Kylo Ren thread on that since not quiet on topic here.

    Anyway, yeah, I don't think anything could be more different between these two duos. As for how Poe and Rey's dynamic would go in regard to just interacting, I can see a few interesting scenes coming out of the movie.

    You can have a scene where Poe is fixing a ship, and we know Rey is a mechanic so the two could discuss the plans with the remaining x-wings and if we'll see new ones. They could talk about Poe building his own pod racer and Rey talking about her sand cycle thing from TFA.

    You can easily have a scene where the two are alone and Rey talks to him about the situation with Ben in regard to his comment on her family. Poe can then talk about his mother and father and their relationship as well as the fact that he grew up a lot with his grandfather and how his dad chose to become a farmer after the war.

    Another one could be a scene where Rey is having a nightmare about her time with Ben and Snoke and she goes outside and meets Poe who's dealing with his own issues at the moment, and the two discuss the situation with the FO and their view on Ben, who he is and what he's become and how they can stop him.

    Other scenes can be strictly strategy moments, and some funny ones where Rey mentions Jakku all being Sand and Poe being like, "Yeah I know, it got every where!" or something that gets her to laugh about the place. Maybe they go to Tattooine and see that place and it's like "Oh god not sand again."

    If we need romantic, a starry night and Rey talking about seeing the stars around Jakku and seeing the ships take off, and Poe talks about how different it was with the whole living on Yarvin IV and the way it looked living by the Massi temple. He could tell her stories about his life as a kid and the two bond through that.

    There's a lot of easy moments to show a growing dynamic between these two. I had wished that Ben could have had a better relationship with Hux, who did have family issues, and the like with his father. So he knows about what being the heir to the family line is like. You would think that he could at least back Ben and be like "Yeah Snoke's an ass." But their personalities clash so hard. Could be an interesting paraell to draw from. Poe and Rey trust each other, Ben and Hux don't.
     
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  10. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Well as long as Rey does not force push him we should be good.
     
  11. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2017
    I actually want to know a few things in regards to them; what Poe was thinking when he saw Rey with the boulders, and what Rey was feeling when she was by herself looking at Finn and Rose and how she and Poe transition to the meet and greet.
    This is an interesting idea and this could be a very pleasant interaction, adding that her experiences scavenging and reading technical manuals led to her being confident enough to fly (pilot) anything including the Millenium Falcon

    .

    This could also lead the conversation back to the last force tree, Poe's parents interactions with Leia and that his joining the Resistance was because of Leia and Shara Bey relationship; and how Han saw what he (Poe) sees in her and how his experiences as a kid could be comforting to her to hear.

    Not much to add here but they could also address each's individual torture scene and how it shaped thier perspectives of Ben Solo and the impact it had on them.
    I love this ^

    The could also bond over thier common interests and the ships they've flown, the stories BB-8 recalls and how a chance encounter with Finn led them both to each other and how because of that they along with Finn and others are those entrusted with restoring peace.

    Date night is a quick trip in the Falcon or Poe's new X-Wing..


    Knowing that the Resistance needs to be rebuilt, Leia's passing will need to be addressed and that each faction needs to regroup in some manner I believe at least a 2-3 year time jump is expected. Which also allows for certain relationships to develop further.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  12. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    I was thinking the same thing. Similiar in length as ANH to ESB.
     
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  13. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 5, 2016
    Thinking about it. Rey's relationships will end up like Buffy the Vampire slayers'.

    Rey = Buffy (the main heroine)

    Kylo = Angel/Spike (bad Boy on the opposite side who she shouldn't be with but has the heated main tumultuous relationship with)

    Finn = Xander (lifelong goofy friend who will always be there, but no romance)

    Poe = Riley (likes him, military good guy, but he's a rebound guy, ends up fizzling out too soon)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  14. mlsw

    mlsw Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 30, 2017
    I'll bet on Candy Candy (orginal version) instead.
    We can see references everywhere....
    Or to say it better, almost everything may be taken as a reference.
    All the tales deal with the same tropes. More or less.
    And still, every tale may end one way or another.

    That is why I really hope she won't end with anybody.
    That will be new.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  15. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    I'm not very familiar with the Buffy franchise at all, but I know that people enjoy comparing parallels in different fictional characters. I do it all the time.

    I think that we should keep in mind, though, that just because there are similarities, it doesn't mean that everything will sync up. For example, I've found that Rey and Kylo's interactions and the resulting storyline remind me a bit of the Marvel comics characters Laura Kinney (X-23) and her older brother, Daken (they're both Wolverine's kids, albeit Daken being a biological son while Laura is a gender-swapped clone of Wolverine that the famous X-Man adopted as his own daughter), down to the bad guy's origin and both characters' relationship with the father. However, there are massive differences in the characters (Marvel telling a story about siblings while Star Wars is about unrelated characters being an obvious one) and where their stories go will presumably be different because of the pre-existing differences and the needs of the medium (a movie that needs a finite ending vs. a comic series that cannot have a definitive end).
     
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  16. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 5, 2016
    Plus Laura knew her mother.

    And wasn't Daken raised by the man who killed his mother, Cyber?
     
  17. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Poe and Rey already have a healthier relationship then Rey and Kylo. We can all agree on that.
     
  18. Darkspellmaster

    Darkspellmaster Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    I wouldn't equate this cast to that series honestly. I just can't see Kylo as Angel or Spike. Finn certainly isn't Xander, and I can't see Poe as Riley.

    The one series I can equate though is Full Metal Alchemist.

    Rey =Edward Elric (Main hero, trying to do good for him and his brother/family)

    Finn =Alphonse Elric (younger, slightly, brother who is a goof but can stand up just as much as his brother)

    Poe =Winnry Rockbell (Ed and Al's best friend and the person that keeps them going)

    Rose =Ling (character that has his own goal, but helps out the group)

    Luke = Roy Mustang (Helps out the brothers and is a badass who does his best for the team)

    Leia =Olivia Armstrong (Strong competent leader, who can get anyone to follow her to hell and back)

    DJ =Greedling (a version of Ling that can be seen as bad and good, as he's very ambiguious)

    Ben Solo =Scar (Someone hurt by the actions of others and is now doing things to pay them back)

    Snoke =Father (Manipulative monster who plans on destorying everything to get what he ultimately wants)

    Hux =Kimbly, (ego maniac who loves to bring about chaos just to boost his own ego and put himself in power)

    That's the series I see at least.

    Yup, unless Rian is literally pulling from the movies like he did with Poe's section. For me, hard to unsee.

    Daken and Laura are a great example of how that dynamic can actually work well. Laura cares about Daken, but she doesn't respect his choices and calls him out on his actions. Daken still will attack and cause harm to get what he wants (example: Not that long ago the Iceman comic had Bobby Drake kind of Befriend him, Daken is Bi, but it seems like he really likes Bobby a lot. However, Bobby is not into him, and told him as such. Events took place where Daken was implanted with a seed that connects to Apocolypse (Hey funny connection to Oscar Issac right there. XD ) and it's been elevating his temper, his self loathing, and other emotions, making him intensely jealous and ragey. So, along with another character, who's a bad guy, he stormed the X-mansion, and may have killed Bobby's boyfriend, all because he "wants him" and he's "angry" at him for not choosing him. Iceman for his part keeps trying to talk him down.) .

    Daken is also known for belittling people to put them down so he can manipulate them, and he has a pheremon thing (much like Xizor from the Legends verse) where he can manipulate others. The more I think about it the more I can see Daken and Ben as being a like. It also bring up the idea of Poe as possibly one of the other characters as a mentor figure towards Rey as Laura doesn't really have too many love interests (well outside of other dimensional original teen Warren Worthington III, please don't ask, it's...complicated).

    No, not really. See the one that killed his mother back in 1946 (Yes he's that old), was James "Buckey" Buccanan, back when he was in Winter Solider mode. He was taken, literally, from his mother just after she died by a guy name Romulus, who put him with a family in the Miyagi prefecture. While the father actually cared for him, the Mother was scared and wanted to get rid of him when she was having her own child. This lead to him killing the baby when he was around 12 or 13, and his powers manifested when attacked, and he killed the family. Then Romulus swooped in and twisted his mind more, etc. By the way, his name actually means "b****** dog" in Japanese with the Kanji.

    Interesting how all these things connecting to the Marvel universe and the whole thing about Japan keep cropping up in this. I keep thinking that there's going to be some connection with Poe and Rey and the Respective Moon and Sun to light the way back for Ben.
     
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  19. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Yep. And unlike Rey, Laura's mother did love her and was a fixture in her early life (while not explicitly stated, it has been implied that Sarah Kinney's efforts to undermine the program that cloned Laura and tried to make her a dehumanized assassin weapon is the reason that her daughter retained enough of her humanity to be able to ultimately reject her life as Weapon X 2.0 and become the hero she is today).

    I'm not that familiar with the Daken character outside of his occasional appearances in comics I do collect, but I do think that @Darkspellmaster got it right, at least from what I recall of the Marvel Wiki.

    Didn't we discuss this in another thread? I know I've been using the comparison between Rey/Kylo and the Wolverine siblings often on and I recall a response to the comparison having a lot of the same content. As far as Rey and Kylo having a similar dynamic to Laura and Daken, that could work on paper, but I think the question is if it could be set up in a logical way. In the case of Daken and Laura, they seem to have mutual respect because of their similar pasts. As I recall, Daken also didn't really have any respect for Laura at all (and seemed to see her existence as a clone of Wolverine as an affront to his father despite hating him) until he saw that she was as good a fighter as her reputation said. In Laura's case, I recall being told that the Wolverines series had a bit that established that she saw Daken as the only family she had left -- given that both her parents (Sarah Kinney and Wolverine) were dead and she'd been forced to sever ties with her material aunt and cousin to protect them (of course, since then Wolverine has come back, she got a little sister in her own clone, Gabby, and was able to reconnect with her aunt and cousin). I have to admit that I'm struggling to think of material that would allow Kylo and Rey to do something similar, but I could see that it's plausible.

    Daken's situation with Ice Man does sound like how a darker turn for Kylo and Rey could do, depending on how he takes her slamming the door in his face. (Don't Apocalypse seeds turn people into Apocalypse clones or something? I've heard of them before, but haven't read a series with them.)

    Yeah, except for the emotional control thing. I guess it remains to be seen what role Poe has with Rey. They could do that, although Finn does have more personal history with Kylo, so he could be a more effective lynchpin character if they wanted to bring Rey's circle with friends into the mix (Kylo messed him up pretty badly in TFA and Finn's defection has really ruined the First Order's day as of late). It seems like there'd be stronger feelings with that history.

    Laura did have a would-be boyfriend in fellow X-Men student Julian "Hellion" Keller in the Childhood's End iteration of the New X-Men series (set when she was fifteen or sixteen). While reciprocated, they never really got together (possibly in part to them having a difficult time expressing their feelings to each other), and it ended really badly in the X-23 solo series (Julian decided that he did want to be in a relationship with her and was trying to start one while Laura had come to the conclusion that she didn't like him in that way -- although to be fair, neither of them were in a good position for a relationship at the time for some very good reasons).

    I wouldn't be surprised that it's not that well known. For starters, Laura was the only New X-Men cast member to really become a notable character. Also, the relationship was not actually that long lived; New X-Men: Childhood's End was published in five trade paperbacks, while they meet in the first one, Laura doesn't develop feelings for Julian until the very end of the third book (he saved her life, nearly killing himself in the process) and Julian himself doesn't seem to return them until the fifth and final book (in private, he admits to a friend that he can't stop thinking about her). Then, you got the Messiah trilogy of events and the X-Force series and while there are a few reminders of their connection, they're basically doing their own things. Then came Laura's X-23S series where it all goes down. While I think the breakup makes sense and I was never a huge fan of it in the first palce, it was interesting while it lasted and I can't help but think seeing them reconciling and trying to have another go no that they've matured since would be more interesting than what we got now.

    I think the time-displaced Angel is the only other one in the series so far. Personally, I'm not a fan, although I did skip the All-New X-Men series that introduced it (I've heard consistently bad things about Laura's comic appearances set between her X-23 and All-New Wolverine solo series) and only know him from his occasional appearances in All-New Wolverine, which makes Laura's relationship with her little clone sister Gabby the main core of the series. (On the comics forum I follow, I have heard rumors wondering if the relationship is on the way out; apparently Angel has not only been seen hitting on other girls despite ostensibly already being taken, but he may need to go back to his home time or something or other.)

    That does sound a lot like Kylo. Less than ideal family background (albeit with different kind of problems), violently lashing out, and being taken in by a villain who set down an even darker path.

    Didn't Daken also eventually turn on Romulus like Kylo did with Snoke? I seem to recall that the chief way he was a foil for Laura (beyond morality) was that he embraced being a weapon but wanted to be in control of his weapon-hood, contrasting her deciding "I am not a gun" (to quote The Iron Giant). Heck, in the Collision story where they first met, she talks him into joining her against the villains by pointing out that he enemies will have the means to utterly control him if they're not stopped.

    I wonder if it's just happenstance. After all, the Wolverine franchise has had Japanese connections for years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  20. cappoe

    cappoe Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jan 12, 2018
    Agree the book will definitely explain more clearly just what was going on in those big moments in the movie and I cannot wait.
     
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  21. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2017
    Not only will the novel give us more exposition in regards to character thought, desire, and intention but also direction of scene; another important release will be the actual script because although the scene will accurately with (subtext, italics, boxes) emphasis on the motives and character feelings, desires.
     
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  22. cappoe

    cappoe Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jan 12, 2018
    When is the script released again?
     
  23. cappoe

    cappoe Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jan 12, 2018
    The official novelization is coming March 2nd.
     
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  24. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2017
    Probably early March with the novelization.
     
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  25. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2017
    March 6th is the release date according to the Star Wars Show; it's going to include of new information, background and scenes (i.e. as an example as mentioned in video Han Solo funeral)



    This this new information especially the confirmation that scenes between Rose/Paige are included I forsee exposition of the Rey and Poe Dameron dynamic to be explored further in detail. Only 5 more weeks;
     
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