ST Poe Dameron & Rey and their dynamic moving forward in IX

Which one (I can't find it).

Circumstantial evidence with a dash of confirmation bias. Seriously, as much as I hate to have to admit this, what with the new canon policy and all, the tie-ins have zero impact on the movies, unless the writers are given insider info. The tail, not the dog, gets wagged. (It's pretty funny scene, though.)

 

We were told to drop it, so drop it. Thanks. And clearly people agree with what I'm saying on the thread cause go look at the number of people liking on my minority erasure post. You may not have meant anything by it, but you can understand why someone seeing that would get that impression. Thanks again!

Anyways going back to Poe and Rey did everyone see the new sneak peek for Poe's comics. Poe is straight up flirting with her and it's great and she's kind of flirting back.

 

I'm still calling confirmation bias with the lack of any other supporting evidence.

 

Yeah, I just see it as three friends chatting after a stressful time.... Poe's personality seems flirty in general... hence why people saw Finn/Poe post TFA & others saw something between him & Holdo in TLJ. And he's like 13 years older than Rey, right? So he was 18 when she was abandoned by her parents... ick.

Yes, I agree... & why would something as big as a romance/love interest for the main character be in a comic that not many people read?

 

I don't know if the age gap would be problematic several years down the road (Han and Leia had a ten year age gap and no one seemed bothered by it), but in context, as of TLJ, Poe is thirty-two (Force Awakens Visual Dictionary) and Rey is nineteen (Force Awakens Visual Dictionary, et al). (In context, as of TLJ, Finn is twenty-three [Force Awakens Visual Dictionary] and Kylo Ren is twenty-nine [Aftermath: Empire's End], so arguably age would be problematic for any of the popular shipping scenarios, albeit some more so than others.)

Yes, I agree... & why would something as big as a romance/love interest for the main character be in a comic that not many people read?[/QUOTE]

It could be remotely possible that they were asked to seed something for Episode 9, but everything I've heard about Marvel is that they do their own thing and submit it for approval.

 

Well I can only say what would be problematic for me, Han & Leia's doesn't really bother me nor would Finn or Kylo's age gap. To me 13 years is a few years too much, especially as I pointed out he was an adult man when she was a 5 year old child (whereas at that time Finn would've been around 9/10 & Kylo 14/15, aka still adolescents).

Sure, anything is possible, however I'd consider it highly unlikely. Especially when I think this particular comic was being planned before they would've known/seen the 9 script (the author had hinted at this around a year ago?).

 

Personally, I'm not bothered by Finn's age gap (it's the smallest and I think that it helps that the characters seem to be at a similar level of emotional maturity), but I file Kylo's in the same place you file Poe's (and to be honest, I don't like Poe's age gap either).

Agreed.

 

Poe is 32, Finn is 23, Kylo is 29- 30 and Rey is 19..



Going by this, Kylo and Rey have an almost 11 year age gap. It would mean Kylo was nearly 16 when Rey was a 5 year old, making his age as ick as Poe's (going by your argument) and only Finn's age would be an acceptable one for Rey's love interest. That being said, let me point out that there are relationships where the couples have big age differences, and as long as people adults and consenting, I don't see who we are to judge them.

Secondly, Poe isn't flirty with everyone. He doesn't flirt with Snap Wexley, Jess Pava, Connix, Rose or even for that matter Leia in the movies. The whole Finn-Poe thing arose from people reading a lip bite and a "keep the jacket" line as a big romance. But if you check Oscar Isaac's interviews, he often does this mannerism. So unless he is hitting on every interviewer, it is just a case of people reading into something which may/ may not be there.

Thirdly, the comic could be setting up something that will be further explored in episode 9, as has been done previously with other canon media. They did this to explain how Phasma escaped the garbage chute, DJ landed up in the Canto Bight jail, Hux ended up in charge of the stormtrooper program, Leia created the resistance, Luke found the way to Ahch-to, etc.

I don't think any romance with Rey is canon as yet, so technically any reading of a romance with Rey with Finn, Poe or Kylo, whether based on their interactions, using canon material or drawing parallels with other literature and movies as "evidence" would be tainted by confirmation bias. So until we get a final answer in canon, I would think all discussions and evidence cited to support Rey's romance with any other character are equally valid and equally filled with confirmation bias.

Lol. Rey and Poe's interaction was pretty cute actually, and it does have a Han and Leia vibe to it (especially when she tells him she doesn't crash anything she flies). One thing that got my attention is how Rey is so composed and has moved on from everything she has been through while Poe and Finn seem disturbed.



My takeaway from this preview is that Rey, Finn and Poe will end up spending more time together in episode 9 as they seem to be getting to know one another better. I also see her having a calming influence on Poe.



On a separate note, did you watch last week's Collider Jedi Council? Looks like there are others who think Rey and Poe might get romantically involved.

 

I would agree with that at this point. (I know some people -- myself included -- were using the TFA novelization as evidence for one scenario, but it was at a time when we thought that the sequel trilogy was far more planned in advance then it turns out it is and given that the movies have not really built off it, it seems to not be a factor anymore.)

 

Pablo has also said that the age gap between Rey & Kylo is 9-10 years (so apparently if he's 30 she's turning 20) so that's not an 11 year age gap, and no to me (who is the only person I can speak for) it is NOT as ick as Poe's age gap, which I've already explained is because both Finn & Kylo were still adolescents not yet adults, unlike Poe. You don't have a right to argue with my feelings & opinion on that the matter, nor does bringing in other couples & their age gaps affect my thoughts because we're talking about fictional characters not 'consenting adults'.

My comment re: Poe being flirty is in regards to how Oscar plays his character, you don't have to agree with me, that's fine. But how can you say Finn/Poe fans are reading into something that isn't there, yet people aren't reading into the Rey & Poe scene in TLJ?

I don't deny that LFL seeds things into the various books & comics, but I disagree that something as important to the plot as a romance between the main character and another lead character is one of those things. P.S. we already knew Phasma survived into 8 before that comic was released, that Leia started the Resistance (from TFA & Bloodline), that DJ was in Canto Bight Jail (TLJ), that Hux was in charge of the Stormtrooper program (TFA), AND that Luke was on Ahch-To... all the comics/books did was fill in details on what we already knew, thus since Rey isn't in a romantic relationship at the end of TLJ they certainly won't put her in one in the comics.

Didn't feel like a Han & Leia vibe to me at all.... In no way do I see Rey having a calming influence on Poe from a comic preview... besides it's not her job to be a calming influence on him just like it isn't her job to save Kylo.
I do think Finn, Rey, Rose, & Poe (heck even Connix) will get along, working together for the Resistance. However, I can see Rey & Poe's personalities clashing quite a bit especially since Rey is into salvaging & Poe is into burning things down. And I believe this thread isn't only for those who support a romance between Rey & Poe, so I am free to post those opinions.

 

What Rey & Poe scene? Hi/Bye, blink and you missed it? Not a snowball's chance in Hades of those two hooking up in the 3rd film of a trilogy with zero setup in the first two films.

 

What's collider?

 

Fast Forward to 25:25 I guess these folks read the script they are totally against a Finn Rey romance even know Boyega who's in the film raved about daisy shooting him a text saying they are back together again...What is interesting is we don't know what in depth the text messages between he and daisy noted also that he preferences a finn/rey romance which speaks volumes since he is in the movie. Any how these guys may have read the script they are saying that the writers are definitely going for Poe and Rey romance and that finn's boyfriend comments meant nothing and that poe and rey's meeting in the film plus the novelization sealed the deal for Poe and Rey and Finn will marry rose but they don't have any chemistry and won't be in many scenes together.

 

Please cite the source of your claim because as far as I am aware, all Pablo Hidalgo's tweets specifically mention that Kylo is between 29 and 30 when Rey is 19, which means Kylo is between 10 and 11 years older than Rey.

Here is a second tweet that reconfirms this:



This confirms Kylo was nearly 16 years old when Rey was a 5 year old, and when I last checked adolescence is between the ages of 10 (sometimes 13) and 19. Kylo was well into adolescence when Rey was a 5 year old. So if Rey and Poe's age difference is ick, so is Rey and Kylo's age difference. I am not saying you cannot call fictional pairings "ick" but I have as much right as you do to give my opinion as you do and I see no difference between a nearly 11 year age gap and a 13 year age gap.

You obviously did not read my post properly. I said people are reading the lip bite as a confirmation of something that might/might not be there.
So fans of Finn-Poe can read clues as confirmation of a romance, but those who see a potential romance between Rey and Poe are not entitled to discuss it without being told they are wrong? A potential romance they might like to see is "ick"? I can't even...

I never said at any point in my previous post that a romance between Rey and Poe (two main characters) will be covered in a comic. I think I clearly mentioned that the comics could be used to have Rey, Finn and Poe spend time together. And yes, if the three of them spend time together in the comics, I can see them showing a Rey and Poe romance in episode IX (for that matter, if they get rid of Rose, I can even see a Finnrey romance happening as well).

I disagree with your point regarding comics filling in details that we already know.

For instance, there was nothing in TFA to suggest Phasma survived. There were news articles and leaks mentioning that she survived but that is not the same as canon material. The first actual confirmation of her survival was in the Phasma comic.

Similarly, Leia might have been running the resistance in TFA but there was nothing in TFA about the origins of the resistance or Leia setting it up before Bloodline. The TFA novel just had a passing line by Kylo mentioning using clones instead of stormtroopers, but there was nothing in the movie to indicate Hux was the one in charge of the program (or how he was given charge). As a matter of fact, TFA gave the impression Hux and Phasma were heading the program, going by the movie and the Visual Dictionary mentioning that Phasma held a senior rank in the first order despite being called Captain. And DJ was "sleeping off a hangover" according to the TLJ movie. The comic gives a different story.

Just to add to the list of things seeded- Holdo's history with Leia was seeded in a book before TLJ's release (Leia Princess of Alderaan), Finn's backstory with Phasma was dealt with in a novel before TFA was released (Before the Awakening), Poe's relationship with Leia (and why she would be so fond of him) was seeded in a comic series (Shattered Empire) and a book (Before the Awakening) before TFA was released. So once again, I disagree with you. I think Rey and Poe's relationship can easily be seeded in a comic, and can be further developed into a deep friendship or romance in episode 9.

That is a matter of opinion on both counts.
Secondly, I never said it is her job to calm Poe. I just made an observation and since this is a discussion forum, I think I am allowed to do so when I last checked.

Nothing in canon suggests Poe is into burning things beyond the opening scene of TLJ (which anyway contradicts prior canon)



But even if we take the opening scene into consideration, Poe changed his stance on fighting/ blowing things up at the end of the movies when he chose to retreat instead of attacking the walkers on Crait. So I don't see Rey and Poe having any personality clashes. If anything, Rey likes salvaging things, plants and flying (all things Poe is into as well if we go by canon books on Poe's life as a farm boy prior to joining the new republic military).

Lastly, I don't think I ever said this is a thread only for those who support a romance between Rey and Poe (as even I often mention I see them as being at least good friends). Either you are being unnecessarily defensive or you are trying to bring in a quarrel where there is none, neither of which I wish to participate in.

@nagajuna .... Thanks for posting the video.
I'm honestly not against a Finn and Rey romance (John Boyega and Daisy Ridley have amazing screen chemistry) and I expect Finn and Rey to spend lots of time together in the comics and episode 9. The problems that I foresee for it is that the TLJ novel gives all these weird lines about Finn feeling Rose's kiss even afterwards (tbh,, that kiss was just weird to me), how he felt Rey was not the same when they met again and also they might find it hard to get rid of their first Asian lead character so easily. But then again, Rose hasn't been well received by the general audience so who knows.

 

Poe says I know to Rey because Finn wouldn't shut up about her. Rey was the first thing he asked about not what happen to him or where they were BUT WHERE'S REY! Which is why Poe responded with i know

 

Possible (and I don't dispute Finn's importance in Rey's life)...but its also possible that Poe heard about Rey from others like Leia as well, and she represents everything he grew up admiring (since he was brought up to believe in the force and the jedi). He could partially be in awe of the jedi Finn and others praised, but 'I know' is too iconic a line in Star Wars to be used like that, especially when it's was used in both ESB and ROTJ in a romantic context. Poe could have just said- I've heard about you or nice to finally met the girl Finn talks about etc., if his chatting up Rey was only linked to Finn. I feel the line was to establish their relationship will be important, whether as great friends or as a romance.

 

Can't speak for the other user, but we do have canonical sources for all the character's ages and birthdates now. As noted, Rey is nineteen (Force Awakens Visual Dictionary, Force Awakens junior novelization, et al.), placing her birth in 15 ABY. Kylo is 29 in TFA/TLJ, being born in 5 ABY (Aftermath: Empire's End), making him ten years Rey's senior.

Agreed. (Had they first met when they were both well into adulthood, I think that would take a lot of the ick factor out of it, but when their being paired together at a point when one is an adult and the other is still in their teens -- at the cusp of adulthood, but still -- there is a queasy factor to it, IMHO.)

Just because the first we hear of a certain data point doesn't mean that it originated in the tie-ins. All the clues to the movies and set-up, those were written after the movie was scripted. Also worth noting that, so far as we know, Episode 9 has not been set yet and the Poe comic would've had to be written in advance before it could've been. Conclusion, it's highly unlikely that the authors of the comic know where the story is going, so that scene was not written to set up stuff for the movie. (Long story short, they do use the tie-ins to seed things, but only when the course has been set.)

That was the vibe in the junior novelization. However, the adult novelization actually says the exact opposite:

IMHO, the adult novelization seems to be a better match to what we saw in the movie than the junior novel. (There are a number of discrepancies between the two novels; for example, the adult one suggests that in the last Force Skype scene that neither character showed any emotion and leaves the state of things with them unclear, while the jr. novel is clear that they parted as enemies.)

In any event, Episode 9 is not bound by any of the novelizations. Case in point, TLJ the movie ignored the fact that Rey and Poe had already met in the TFA novelization, so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

I checked the TFA Visual Dictionary and couldn't find their ages mentioned anywhere. However, you were right about Rey being confirmed as 19 in the junior novelisation of TFA. That being said, I never disputed Rey being 19 years old. My request for a source was specifically for Kylo's age.

As for Kylo, he was born during the battle of Jakku, which took place a year after the Battle of Endor, but nowhere in canon is it specifically mentioned that Kylo is 29 years old. (I have checked everything from the Visual dictionaries, to the novels, the junior novels and even books like Princess Leia: Royal Rebel.) Being born at the beginning or end of a specific year can change a person's age.

In the absence of an actual canon mention, I would think that the twitter confirmation of a character's age by a member of the story group (who are in a position to know such things) would be the most accurate. Therefore Kylo is between 10 and 11 years older than Rey (being between 29 and 30 years of age when she is 19).

We are talking about a fictional world and fictional characters where 19 year old characters get into physically intimate relationships and even marry shortly after (Anakin). Rey has had to look after herself from a young age and has seen more of life than most adults. So I would not classify her as a typical teenager when it comes to maturity.

That being said, I don't think anyone who discusses Rey and Poe in a romance has said that they will jump into a relationship from the get go (especially with a jedi order and resistance to re-build, respectively). Most people assume a time period passes between episode 8 and 9, during which they can easily get to know one another and if a romance happens, it will be when Rey is in her 20s (an adult for all intents and purposes, in the real and fictional realm).

I don't disagree that those set-ups were seeded into the other canon materials after the story for the movie was written (but not necessarily after scripting as we know for a fact that changes were made to TFA even during filming).

JJ Abrams and Chris Terio pitched their story back in early to mid-December 2017, the script was finalised some time back, Daisy Ridley has read the script (going by recent news) and filming starts in June 2018.

This leaves more than enough time to come up with tie-in material. And while Marvel might not be given the script of episode 9, it is highly likely that they might have been asked to take certain story directions in upcoming comics to set up the movie, including Rey and Poe's friendship (or romance).

Rose cannot just be made to disappear from the scene that easily for a number of reasons:

1. First, here are some extracts from the TLJ novel and junior novel:

As the shield door was torn apart, Rose inclined her head and kissed Finn—just in case he hadn’t heard her, or had missed her meaning. The big goof had a good heart. But he also had a way of missing the obvious. (TLJ Novel)

Finn watched, holding Rose’s hand, as daylight appeared at the top of the tumbled heap of rock. On the other side of the hold Rose lay in the Falcon’s relief bunk, a diagnostic scanner monitoring her vital signs, while Finn rummaged in the compartments beneath the bunks. They were filled with junk, of course—as Leia and Rey watched, he shoved aside batteries, old tools, and a scattering of ancient books until he finally found what he was looking for, extracting a blanket and gently draping it over Rose’s sleeping form.
(TLJ Novel)

“Saved you, dummy,” she said, coughing. “That’s how we’re going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.” The cannon’s blast shook the world. Rose didn’t need to see the impact to know the shield door wouldn’t hold. Nor could she hold back her feelings. Lifting her head, she kissed Finn. (TLJ Junior Novel)

But his lips tingled strangely, probably from the salt in the air. Or was it from Rose’s kiss? (TLJ Junior Novel)

Based on the above, it is clear Rose is romantically interested in Finn. In Finn's case, the junior novel hints at Finn reciprocating the feeling, but the main novel is more ambiguous, confirming that Finn cares for Rose but not revealing more.

2. I agree with your point that the novels are not as canon as movies, especially if there is a contradiction between them (as you pointed out Rey meeting Poe in the TFA novel only happened during TLJ). However, there is no contradiction between the scenes of Finn and Rose's interaction in the movie and the novels, especially since the novels were released months after the movie release. But even if we disregard the novels, let us look at the movie itself- Rose kisses Finn after declaring her love for him and later, he is gently wrapping her in a blanket. So at the very least, Finn care a lot for her and is protective of her.

3. Also, TFA and TLJ have borrowed many beats from the OT and PT. In ESB, Leia kisses Han after declaring her love for him...in the PT, Padme kisses Anakin after declaring her love, and now in TLJ, Rose kisses Finn after declaring her love for him. Going by precedent, signs point at Rose being Finn's love interest.

4. Finally, even if we disregard all this and want Rose to vanish, it will not be that simple to just get rid of the first Asian in a major role in the trilogy movies without it becoming a big issue. And her declaring her love for Finn adds more complication.

Of course, they could still write out her character in some way....I'm just saying it wont be that easy after all the build up in TLJ.

 

It was one of his deleted tweets and no, I don't have a screenshot. Nor do I need one as per what WebLurker posted;

??? As I had said if Finn is 9/10 and Kylo is 14/15 when Rey was abandoned that puts them BOTH in adolescence & NEITHER were adults at the time. No, I have a right to see Poe's age difference as 'ick' for the reasons I've already detailed a few times now. Never said you don't have a right to give your opinion, but you don't have a right to argue with mine or tell me it's wrong.

Excuse me, but my posting my opinions doesn't tell you your opinions are wrong nor should my seeing something as 'ick' affect you in any way. We both have a right to our views and as far as I know, we both have a right to post them here.

I'm referring to his quote at the end of TLJ.

I am being neither. I posted my opinions, you were the one arguing with them as if they are wrong or that Rey & Poe being in a romance is the only option.

Totally agree. Also Collider knows nothing, they didn't get anything right about TLJ and Harloff went back to Rey Skywalker at the drop of Pegg's hat. I doubt any have read 9's script.

Woah, what? 'Get rid of' their first Asian lead character? Really?

Totally agree.

@panki your username looks familiar, are you the same poster who was a Reylo and had previously debated with me whether Rey had Dathomirian Nightsister ancestry?

 

First, I have responded to WebLurker regarding the canon ages (refer above for details). Kylo's exact age is mentioned nowhere in canon.

The only information is that he was born after the battle of Jakku. I have provided 2 screenshots of tweets clearly indicating Kylo is 29-30 years old. So unless you can cite an actual canon source indicating he is just 29 years old or provide a tweet, I would have to go with actual evidence that exists.

I never said you had no right. But I do have the right so say I do not agree with your opinion (unless there is some rule preventing this? Cause when I last checked, this was a discussion forum.)

As I stated earlier, Kylo was 15-16 years old (going by what was confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo on twitter, screenshots available above). There is no difference between an almost 11 year age gap and a 13 year age gap.

You are more than entitled to feel something is "ick"....I am more than entitled to my view that it is a double standard, and well within my rights to call it that.

Did I? Obviously you did not read my posts then because I talk a lot about Rey and Poe ending up as friends and I have never said romance is the only option for them. Kindly point out where I said this.

So one line about the resistance (not even him) being the spark that burns a fascist group like the first order down means Poe is into burning things, and his actual deed of retreating to save lives doesn't indicate the contrary?

I think you should spend time reading the post I wrote (and its context) before all the exclamations of outrage.

And how does this pertain to the dynamic of Rey and Poe? Secondly, I haven't debated about Rey's ancestry (Dathomirian or otherwise) on this forum.

 

IX is just TLJ in reverse order. It'll fool everyone

 

If that means bringing Luke back, I'll be happy.