ST Poe Dameron & Rey and their dynamic moving forward in IX

I don't actually have copies of those books. I was consulting the Wook and they provided birth years for the characters, citing the Visual Dictionaries as the sources for that info. It could very well be that the compliers were mistaken in that regard and so the Wook is wrong on that point. If you checked and it's not in there, then I guess it's not (the Wook did not clarify if the Dictionaries ostensibly gave an outright birth year or if you have to calculate the age yourself based on information from that source).

As for Kylo, he was born during the battle of Jakku, which took place a year after the Battle of Endor, but nowhere in canon is it specifically mentioned that Kylo is 29 years old. (I have checked everything from the Visual dictionaries, to the novels, the junior novels and even books like Princess Leia: Royal Rebel.) Being born at the beginning or end of a specific year can change a person's age.

In the absence of an actual canon mention, I would think that the twitter confirmation of a character's age by a member of the story group (who are in a position to know such things) would be the most accurate. Therefore Kylo is between 10 and 11 years older than Rey (being between 29 and 30 years of age when she is 19).[/quote]

I was getting Kylo's "exact" age by crunching the numbers (subtracting the year of his birth from the year TFA/TLJ took place in). In my opinion, that was close enough for "exact age" and I tend to trust information from canon sources more than Tweets (although that can be tricky; there's a running discrepancy in the Rogue One materials regarding Jyn Erso's age by a year, and there are even two mutually contradictory accounts of how she was arrested and sent to Wobani in the first place). I will concede that there no "Kylo's birthday is such and such span of time in relation to the movies," so if that was what you're looking for, fair enough. I guess I don't see why we need to be that specific when working out how old he is "now."

I don't think Anakin is a good example of anything for marriage, personally and a really good example why nineteen is not a good age for that sort of thing.

Fair enough though that we have seen characters around Rey's age or younger have physical relationships in the franchise (Rebel Rising showed that a sixteen-or-seventeen-year-old Jyn Erso lost her virginity to a boy she'd fallen in love with and Leia: Princess of Alderaan strongly implies that Princess Leia had teen sex between chapters). However, in most of those cases, the partners seem to be obvious peers, which I think kinda automatically nullifies instinctive red flags (while one may not approve of teenage sex in and of itself, it's not like jailbait is likely to come to mind when the people involved are close in age).

Honestly, to me, the character seems to be a mix of adult-level maturity and naiveté of someone younger, thanks to her upbringing. IMHO, the latter really seems to come through in terms of socialization, which doesn't really help me see the hypothetical relationship very favorably.

Maybe. However, I don't think there's any evidence that they're going that route yet (either in there being a major time jump, much less Rey and Poe being a thing even happening period). Just saying.

Sure movies do change in progress, often after tie-ins are made (apparently the discrepancy between Holdo's characterization in the Leia novel and the movie proper was the result of changes during production after the book was set).

Possibly, however it was my understanding that comics have to be scripted months in advance. As far as whether the tie-in production teams are asked to hit specific things, I'm not sure. I guess the way I see it is that the tie-ins are used to foreshadow and seed things for the movies. I just think that it's too early to see Episode 9 seeding right now due to the time it takes to produce things, if that makes sense.

I think we had a misunderstanding. I don't think that Rose will disappear (nor do I want her to, being one of the few fans she seems to have). I was more commenting that the novelizations inherently have discrepancies with both the source materials and each other, making them tricky to use when examining the facts (and that I don't think we should worry about them not meshing up with current or future works). That said, while I do feel that the novelizations will not affect Episode 9 very much, I will agree that, for the moment at least, they provide the only canonical information about the state of the characters by TLJ's end.

That's a no-brainer. I don't think that can be argued, nor would I, since I agree with that. The novelizations outright say that (the adult one even tracks the progress of her falling for him), it fits with the movie, yeah, that's official.

As far as Finn goes, that's gets a little stickier, IMHO. I think it can be factually confirmed that he does care for her (as we're shown in the movie). It's when there's discrepancies between between the novelizations that I'm not sure how to sort things out and which is the "correct" version (the differences between the books in regards to how Finn feels about Rose can work together, but the two sources have polar opposite takes on where Finn and Rey's friendship is at the end and Kylo seems like a different character in each).

Unless they're setting un an unrequited love story, I'm inclined to agree with you. (Besides, most movies do have a love story angle and I somehow suspect that the other major characters might be too occupied with their story arcs to have one.)

 

I agree with you regarding Anakin...he definitely wasn't ready to be a husband at 19, and am not a fan of movies that advocate people getting married at that age anyway.

I guess the age difference thing is a personal preference. I don't mind watching onscreen romances involving characters with a big age gap....some of the recent pairings I've liked in Star Wars had big age differences....for examples, Han and Leia (of course), Quinlan and Asajj and even Iden and Del. But that being said, I wouldn't want to see Rey get into some serious relationship or marry at 19. I would ideally like a time period of at least 4-5 years to have passed before the next movie if (and I say this because I'm fine with her not having any romance) they plan to write in a romance for her with anyone.

I agree that there is no confirmation of a time jump between episode 8 and 9, but it makes sense for there to be one considering a few factors-

1. The PT and OT had a few years pass between episodes (even upto 10 years between TPM and AOTC). There has been no time gap between TFA and TLJ, so it would be odd if episode 9 just picks up immediately where TLJ ended.

2. The resistance is a handful of people in the Millennium Falcon and a few other scattered members out on missions. For the war to end all wars that John Boyega claimed we'd see in episode 9, the resistance would need time to rebuild itself to at least stand some sort of chance against the first order. This can only happen over a period of time.

3. Daisy Ridley would be 27 next year. She is beautiful and can pass off for 19, but I cannot see her continuing to play a 19 year old in episode 9 as well. I'd imagine Rey would be in her early 20s by then.

I guess the Rey and Poe thing is subjective....some see hints of a future romance and others don't. But then again, clue hunting and theory crafting is part of being a Star Wars fan.

You could be right and we'll never really know how many months in advance things are planned. This is speculation but I based my calculation on Poe Dameron #14 (released on May 3rd) which contained a eulogy of sorts for Carrie Fisher, around four months after her passing. This would be a similar time gap between JJ's story for episode 9 being pitched and accepted, and Poe Dameron #26 being released. There is also the problem that we've hardly seen any interaction between Rey, Finn and Poe together in the previous two films. Its a personal preference but I hope they lay the groundwork for more interaction between these three characters in the comics before episode 9 comes around (not the romance part, just their being close friends and working together as a team would not seem forced).

Lol. My apologies. I kind of assumed you were into finnrey and by extension, not a fan of Rose. I don't dislike her as much I am irritated by her story arc because I feel they could have done a lot more with her character (and in turn, given Finn a better arc as well). I agree with your point about the novels, especially since episode 9 could easily retcon a whole bunch of stuff so one can rely on a source being canon only for the present.

I agree There needs to be some better co-ordination to make sure the writers understand the script writers and director's vision.

I agree with this. TBH, I'll be quite alright with a Finn-Rose romance and no romance for the other characters especially if the story and character arcs are good. But I would enjoy seeing Rey and Poe have a strong friendship (even sans romance), maybe show off their piloting skills or explore some planet or asteroid as part of a mission...I guess this is where the comics might help.

 

Yeah, I think Lucas could've tweeked the writing a bit and smoothed over a few details (making Anakin a few years older and changing the backstory where he and Padme had been in some kind of contact over the years instead of having them known each other for less then a week, zero contact for 20 years, then get married after crossing paths for another number of single digit days).

Fair enough. I don't think that the age gap is problematic in and of itself. Something about one being an adult and the other not at the first meeting kinda makes me pause for some reason. Had the both characters been over twenty-five with the same age gap, I don't think I would've given it a second thought.

Wouldn't the exact passage of time between the movies depend more on the narrative needs of Episode 9 then how past movies have handled it?

Fair enough (unless part of the plot of Episode 9 is rebuilding the Resistance for the huge battles or something).

Never thought of that.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Okay, that could be plausible for the timing, if LucasFilm was willing to tell the people at Marvel for the comic (I'm not quite sure how things work in that regard).

Yeah, I'd like to see the three characters doing stuff together in some form of media.

I do swing that way, but I'm coming to think that it's probably not the outcome and given how well the characters interact as is, that's probably fine. (I'm pretty convinced that the TFA novelization writers thought that was how things were going to go; there are some pretty heavy-handed suggestions in those books.)

Guess I wasn't bothered by the Canto Bight stuff myself.

I suppose it depends on how far afield the authors go. The TLJ novelization was written with a lot of input from Rian Johnson and his vision for the movie. if JJ Abrams decides to follow Johnson's ideas, the TLJ novel could stay more intact then a case where the novelist was given permission to make up his own stuff (for example, while it hasn't been contradicted, the TFA novel's account of how Poe got off Jakku was invented by Alan Dean Foster from whole cloth, so I would expect that it would be ignored if Abrams wanted to revisit it for some reason in Episode 9).

The really weird thing is that the previous novelizations and junior novelizations meshed fairly well, barring the odd minor difference that would be expected from different authors retelling the same story (granted the Rogue One junior novel was such shallow retelling of what was onscreen, that wouldn't be too hard). Wonder why this one had such notable differences? There are cases where the authors are allowed to make their own embellishments (Foster was given permission to invent his own version of how Starkiller Base worked despite it not fitting what the movie showed), but you'd think that the Powers That Be would want things to be reasonably uniform.

Yeah, hope the new stories are good. That's about all we can do.

 

Future Husband and Wife and the overseers of a New Jedi Order; obviously Poe being more in a "supportive" role to Rey in this regards because he is not a Force User - unless JJ has some serious character development in mind for Poe in 9.

 

Counting that interaction a page back, these two are really giving off the cliche vibe that Han and Leia had. Also Ron and Hermione. Guy tries to sound really awesome to impress girl and girl literally could not be less impressed. Gotta love it.

 

I definitely see the Han-Leia vibe.....also like Rey's response to being the notorious lady scavenger.... lol. Great comic.....definitely want to see more of them together.

 

My potential issue with it is less the age difference and more the experience one. These films play up Rey as this naïve young person who has little idea of how the greater galaxy works. Whereas Poe is a much more experienced traveled person. So there's a potentially iffy gap right there.

Whereas with Han and Leia, Leia was more mature than her age would suggest (and had been groomed to be a leader for most of her life), whereas Han was somewhat less mature than his age would suggest. Plus Leia had been traveling around doing Rebel stuff for years before ANH as well. So the dynamic felt more equal despite the age different.

 

I think judging the emotional maturity of a person is a better criteria to determine how mature a person is, as compared to places traveled and political knowledge.

For instance, Leia in canon might have been groomed to become a queen but her adopted parents were especially protective because of her real lineage (if we go by the Leia, Princess of Alderaan novel). It was only after she turned 16 that she started participating in the apprentice legislature and subsequently in the rebellion.So she only had around 3 years of experience of galaxy politics before ANH. Han on the other hand saw a lot more of the galaxy during his travels than Leia and yet, she appears the more composed and mature one.

In the case of Poe, he might have traveled to places as part of the resistance and the New Republic military, but prior to that he led a sheltered existence as a farm boy on Yavin IV, helping on their orchard and going for treks with his father. And even after joining the resistance, he wsn't involved in galaxy politics. Rey might not have traveled as much as Poe, but she had to take care of herself from a very young age. She was street smart, having had to survive and earn her keep amidst thugs, scavengers, and traders from all parts of the galaxy (from whom she learned languages like shyriiwook, ewokese etc). While she might not have seen much of the galaxy, she had to grow up fast and see a lot more of life.

Rey's skepticism and having to grow up at an early age can be seen in TFA when she is tempted to sell BB-8 to Unkar when offered food and when she doesn't trust Finn when they first meet. Conversely, Poe shows more openhearted naivety and a trusting nature when he first befriends Finn despite knowing he is a storm trooper in TFA.

Even in the latest Poe Dameron comic set after the events on Crait, Poe is shown to be visibly upset, reflecting on how things could have been different. Rey takes a more stoic approach, focusing on examining her broken lightsaber and even telling Poe that there is no use dwelling on the past and to concentrate on the present. Based on their behavior, I feel Rey's emotional maturity offsets their age gap to a great extent.

 

Poe - upset?
He looks to me as the most relaxed man in the GFFA at least in this panel. The only one who looks upset is Finn.

 

Poe's body language seems relaxed in the first panel, but a close up of his face in the next panel shows he has an unhappy expression as he talks about all the heartache he could have avoided So he is obviously upset by everything that happened before and was dwelling on it. Finn definitely looks upset as well.

 

They should cut to the chase and have Poe, Finn, Kylo, and Rey appear on The Dating Game.

 

I don't think its a competition (or should be one) with Rey as some sort of prize.
Not commenting on Finn or Kylo vis-à-vis Rey, but I'm actually first and foremost interested in seeing Rey and Poe becoming great friends due to how much they have in common. If they take a romantic route in episode 9, that would be great too. If they decide to give Rey no romance, that would also be fine. What matters is a good story.

 

I'm the same way. I think Leia was 19 in ANH and ESB had only a 6 month time skip, but I don't feel weird about the age difference between Han/Leia. My preferred pairing is Finn/Poe and they have an age difference, 23 and 32, but even though Finn is experiencing life in new ways in parallel with Rey, he doesn't have that naive quality like Rey. I doubt Rey would be so horribly naive that it'd cause issues, but the story stresses this aspect about her enough that it makes me think about how young she is. So I'm more interested seeing her go from a naive girl into a confident young woman through her adventure with the Force and stopping evil. Personally my ideal is Poe being a sort of protective big brother figure for Rey.

 

Prediction! Hux appears to slip
away at the end but Poe catches him or kills him.

 

I think it also helps that Han and Leia had extensive scene time together (which showed the actors bouncing off each other well) and that it was codified pretty early on that there was some kind of interest (Han's "either I'm beginning to like her or I'm going to kill her" assessment after they just met, Leia showing admiration for him having bravery, Han and Luke having a little rivalry for her attention, etc.) With Rey and Poe, they've literally only said hello, with noting concrete established beyond that they seem to be friendly with each other. (In other words, Han and Leia were designed to have some kind of sexual tension, for a lack of a better word, even when most people were probably betting on Luke getting the girl, while Rey and Poe have zero definition on what kind of dynamics they're supposed to have.)

 

I'm not hugely invested in any ships, but Dameray is my favorite, so I hope JJ goes that way. When I watched the movie I didn't come away from it thinking Poe and Rey had a thing for each other. My immediate expectation was a Reylo wedding at the end of 9. But reading this thread made me see the chemistry and possible foreshadowing and now it makes sense to me if it does happen.

 

Yeah. When I first saw ANH, I didn’t pick up on any age difference between Han and Leia. But of course, I was seven years old, and anyone over 15 was just old.

But seriously, I always considered Leia to be more mature than Han, and to me, that made Leia simply seem older than he was.

But with Rey and Poe, I agree. Their pairing would come across as naive Rey choosing older, more experienced Poe, and that would probably not be a good look.

 

Rey's only show of naivete till date is choosing to trust Kylo after Snoke joined their minds (something she had no control over).

Otherwise, she has the skepticism of someone who has seen a lot in life. She contemplates selling BB-8 to Unkar (having faced the constant threat of starvation), she beats up Unkar's thugs who were larger ad more in number than her (like she has plenty of experience with it), she doesn't immediately trust Finn, she knows about the gangsters who previously owned the Millennium Falcon (implying she is at least familiar with the names of gangsters and the underworld) and she has also had to make her own home and survive in the middle of a desert, dealing with traders (from all over the galaxy), thugs, scavengers and the likes of Unkar Plutt from a young age. She would need to be both tough and somewhat worldly wise, having learned the hard way over a period of time to survive that long.

Poe on the other hand displays naive optimism at ever turn- he ran to save Lor San Tekka and the Tuanul villagers( though he was one guy with a blaster rifle and the first order people there included Kylo, Phasma and a host of stormtroopers), he trusted Finn immediately despite knowing that he was a stormtrooper (even taking him directly to Leia on D'Qar), he helped with Finn and Rose's plan to disable the tracker on the Supremacy and tried to buy them time with the mutiny, he ran behind crystal foxes trusting they'll show him the way...and most of all, he hasn't seen enough of real pain and suffering based on his reactions to watching the bombers explode, medical frigate blow up, the escape pods get destroyed, reaching the blocked tunnel end and facing the possibility his people could be destroyed and even later still upset when reflecting on all this loss (in the new Poe comic).

In contrast, Rey watched Han die, Finn almost die, her hero Luke fail her, Kylo fail her, the resistance bombers blow up, faced torture by Snoke and yet she remains calm and even cheerful at times. So despite her young age, Rey has seen too much in her lifetime to be called naive, to the extent that Poe has seen less of the problems of the galaxy or faced hardships to the extent than she has.

Based on the movies, Poe comes across as the one who is more enthusiastic, trusting and hopeful, while Rey comes across as someone who has seen a lot and is therefore calm and cautious, hence the more mature one.

 

For naivety I mean little stuff like when she is on Jakku, she puts on the helmet and eats with her mouth open. It is a little juvenile, endearingly so, but shows that in many ways she’s still a kid.

 

Or maybe she didn't have any role model to teach her better? If she grew up on Jakku, I assume table manners would be her last preoccupation.
As for the helmet, I simply saw it as a shorthand to say: here's a good person who hasn't lost hope amidst dire circumstances.

 

Really, because it made her seem almost child-like to me (it was kind of adorable). And her entire dynamic with Han in TFA was "girl who wants her idol's approval."

Also far from being "calm and cautious," she seems more impulsive and rash a lot of the time.

 

That is what I thought as well. Here is someone with no parent figures to guide her when it comes to social skills, and must rely on her imagination for entertainment and the hope of a better future. Saw it as imaginative and optimistic more than childlike.

I meant calm in the face of adversity, which is what she demonstrated when she turned up Crait smiling and ready to fight despite being tortured by Snoke and put through the emotional wringer by Kylo just a short while earlier, when she saw the the giant boulders and remembered Luke's lesson,and subsequently when she sat with Poe and Finn examining the broken lightsaber. This is also probably what Snoke sensed when he called her a true jedi.

I don't think she was ever rash, except when she shot at the stormtrooper first on Takodana, when she attacked and confronted Luke on Ahch-to about his past with Kylo and then ran off to see Kylo. But the latter two actions are linked to Snoke bonding her to Kylo, not something she displayed a lot of before that. She definitely has a temper especially when she feels she or her friends are in danger, but that is not the same as being impulsive.

 

I'm not so sure:

I agree her trusting him was a serious mistake for any number of reasons (the least of which, as she reflects in the novelization, was believing that Kylo would be an instant convert back to the light after years of being a loyal dark sider). I don't think that was her only example of naiveté, though. I agree with @Thrawn082 that she was seeking Han's validation throughout TFA in a way that echoes a younger person rather than a more mature one. She's also (as we know from both TFA and TLJ) been lying to herself about her past to the point that she seems to have almost convinced herself. She also reacts to the Force's call by running away at first.

Sorta. After the moment of awe passes, she instantly turns him down and never looks back. Had they used the alternate versions from the tie-ins where she initially sells BB-8 but has a change of heart and negates, I would see the point.

It's unclear where Rey learned the Falcon's history (I thought she learned it from Unkar). As far as the other points, knowing how to survive on her home turf doesn't mean that she has even maturity across the board.

Sort of. Her first thought was that Finn was a thief who may have done something to BB-8's master (not a totally illogical conclusion and seemingly based off of BB-8's thoughts, as well). However, she accepts his story as a Resistance operative pretty much at face value (the junior novelization did note that when the First Order attacked, she took that as proof that Finn was telling the truth -- why else would the devote so much resources to killing a man if he wasn't a Resistance spy? -- which is not an unreasonable conclusion). She's also the only person who believes the story despite Finn being a bad liar about that.

Maybe. It could also be part of the recklessness that Leia was trying to train out of him and just being human.

Think is, I think that Rey has a blend of maturity levels. In some ways, she's much older than her actual age (survival, life skills, etc.), but in others seems somewhat underdeveloped (social situation, interrelationships, etc.). I think the latter is the stumbling block for some people, given the disparity between her and Poe on those fronts.

 

I agree with your point regarding Rey seeing Han as a parent figure and seeking his approval. But by the same coin, Poe does precisely the same thing when it comes to Leia. Poe lost his mother at an early age (just like Rey lost her family), and its obvious he sees her as a mother figure, especially when holding her hand as she is comatose in TLJ. I see this as something both Rey and Poe have in common, seeing an older hero as a parent figure.

A person lying about their past (to themselves and to others) isn't immaturity as much as being in denial or suffering from a traumatic event. I think this could happen to anyone at any age. Similarly, Rey's running away is part of the hero's journey of initially refusing the call. Even older characters in literature, whether Bilbo Baggins from the Hobbit, Rincewind from the Discworld series and even Jonah from the Bible initially refused the call (Jonah literally running away).

While the novel does elaborate on Rey's thoughts on selling BB-8 for food, the movie clearly shows her holding the packets and contemplating her next move. So while she doesn't tell the audience her thoughts, its clear she is tempted to sell BB-8 and there is no contradiction between the movie and the novel.

She never mentions Unkar told her the previous owners of the ship. However, she excitedly recognizes Han Solo as a 'famous smuggler', even mentioning this to Finn when he calls Han a former rebel general, indicating she knows the names of smugglers and other shady characters.

Rey's home turf is a desert, where every day was a struggle to survive. She faced constant threats whether from desert creatures, thugs or even the other scavengers. And yet she managed to make a home for herself, teach herself skills like flying and languages, build herself a speeder. and become Unkar's best scavenger. Learning to fend for oneself is part of growing up (children transition from being dependent on parents to building a life for themselves is a part of this), and Rey managed this in an extremely difficult and hostile environment.

She does trust Finn, but only after Finn names Poe as the owner of the jacket (which BB-8 confirms), and that he was also from the resistance. And even then, she tells him not to hold her hand as they ran from the first order. It was only after they actually escaped the FO using the Millennium Falcon that she got totally comfortable with him. And once she did, they never looked back. But my point is that she did not immediately trust him when they met in contrast with Poe, who trusted Finn immediately despite him wearing a stormtrooper suit. Poe's Flight Log even reaffirms Poe's thoughts at the time, indicating he saw that Finn was a good person when they first met.

I don't see how Poe being reckless made him lack humanity. I got the impression Leia felt Poe was too much into being a hero and a hotshot pilot, and heroes got killed. She wanted him to curb his impulsiveness and be a leader (which can be interpreted as growing up).

I agree that Rey lacked the opportunity to develop inter-personal relationships while on Jakku, but it would only be a stumbling block for her and Poe if she continued to remain that way in episode 9 (impossible considering she is a jedi and a member of the resistance, which means interacting with others) If anything, I can see Rey and Poe being a great influence on the other, with Poe's interpersonal skills rubbing off on her, and her stoicism rubbing off on him.

 

I think Poe is secretely Luke Skywalker's son. Initially hidden from the Emperor at birth, Poe was raised by the Damerons and trained in secret by Luke so that he could defeat the Dark Side if it ever rose again. Poe is the 'Leia' of this trilogy. Think about it.

He and Rey will have a thing for each other. They will marry between 9 and 10 basically making Rey a Skywalker.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Also, he seems to sense Rey's pain in 8. And he is 'the best pilot of the Resistance', just like Anakin was 'the best star pilot in the Galaxy' and Luke was brilliant with an X-Wing too.

J.J. Abrams said they initially wanted to kill him off at the beginning of 7 + there is a lot of emphasis on Poe's parents in the comics - all in order to trick us.