ST Poe Dameron & Rey and their dynamic moving forward in IX

I can see the point. However, I still feel that there's been insufficient buildup to Poe being Force-sensitive at this point in the movies.

Hmmm. I still think that Leia not being outed in ANH at least makes muggles being able to resist torture like Poe's a viable option, but fair enough.

Okay.

For what it's worth, the novelization implies that Poe's intuition on the subject was not Force-based.

I guess I see this as movie logic, but your mileage may vary.

I don't think regular good pilots took out that many targets in a single run. It is pointed out in the script of TFA that one x-wing stood out as it took down the x-wings and installations. Poe's flying was something beyond the normal. That is why he is referred to as the "best pilot".[/quote]

That doesn't explain how he did it, though, which is the question of the day.

We have seen muggle pilots make those kind of trench runs before, like Poe's squadmates were doing.

This's Poe's attack run:



Poe is just shooting all the equipment out of the room. There's nothing here that the couldn't be done without the Force.

True, but we have yet to see that confirmation and we do know that muggles can do some pretty impressive stuff.

TLJ needs to stand alone in context of itself and make sense without seeing a TV show. In the context of itself, there's no reason to believe that Poe is using the Force in that scene. (Also, Rebels could've paralleled the scene on purpose without Poe being Force-sensitive.)

That's the thing, though. All we have is circumstantial evidence.

It is an interesting word choice, fair enough.

In many cases, those seeds were retroactive creations, since they were produced after the movies were locked in place. Tie-ins have seeded things in other tie-ins much more organically, but those are also easier to coordinate.

The FFG Star Wars RPG is not canonical.

Some of that sounds like happenstance (Kylo Ren's parallels to Jacen Solo don't prove that one was based off the other) and could just be drawing from the same well independently. All of Last Shot's foreshadowing was created retroactively.

It's possible, but I guess I'm not sure if they would.

At this point, I feel it's theoretically possible, but I'd like more concrete proof before considering it likely and I still feel that the twist hasn't been given proper setup yet.

 

I adore the new comic that just came out. Poe and Rey bonded over being tortured by Kylo, we got a hint of force sensitive Poe, and to top it all off Poe and Rey were having a moment with Rey's quote about the belonging she seeks and then they were literally porgblocked. I mean wow.

 

Torture buddies! It's funny that it sounds like I'm joking even though that's literally what he tells her Is there somewhere I can read the full thing?

 

Fair enough if you feel that way but from my point of view, there is more than enough evidence that hints at his being force sensitive. I would say that either POV is a matter of perception.

The Force Awakens novelisation was based on an early version of the script. Poe's Flight Log, which was released afterwards mentions that Poe felt there was light in the galaxy even in the darkest times when he was helped by a stormtrooper. I don't take this as a guarantee of force sensitivity- maybe just a strong belief in the force itself. But I kind of read this in tandem with other points.

I guess this is again a subjective POV.

I believe that is where the Poe Dameron comic comes in to explain exactly how he felt at that moment, how he tapped into something when he made those shots.

Poe didn't just randomly shoot equipment out of the room. He flew through a burning structure and made a single shot at the Oscillator before exiting (starting from 2:18 of the video you posted). The shooting that can be seen are the TIEs attacking his ship as he approaches the oscillator.

Muggles have done impressive stuff but that doesn't make Poe a muggle by default.

Also, I am basing my discussion here completely on the assumption of - what if they confirm Poe is force sensitive in canon? And if they do, then is exceptional piloting skills would be a result for this force sensitivity since most of the great pilots in canon have been force sensitive.I am not taking it as the official confirmation of force sensitivity, just a factor that would make sense to his being a force sensitive.

While I agree that books, comics and other materials are not as canonically important as movies, the TV shows have always been considered as canon as the films. This is also why characters from the movie (especially the OT and Rogue One) made appearances on Rebels.

I think it is a reach say the scene is a parallel without the force element playing a part in it. For one thing, the crystal fox leading Poe and the resistance paused to wait for the them to catch up with it when they fell behind. If there was only logic and no force element, it had no reason to wait.

Also, the loth wolves in SW Rebels had glowing yellow eyes whenever the force was guiding them to help Ezra and the rebels.



The crystal fox being chased by Poe has glowing eyes (the other crystal foxes had normal eyes even though the Crait base was in darkness after the doors were closed)

Poe's Crystal Fox

Normal crystal foxes

I didn't deny it can be considered circumstantial for now. But in the event that Poe is confirmed to be force sensitive, then all this circumstantial evidence would become foreshadowing and hints.

I think that is the point of tie-ins. They are meant to seed the general direction of the movies, and that can only happen if they have a movie story locked in place first.

It is only after they finalize a story that they can look at what they want seeded in tie-in work and plan accordingly. I never said that things were seeded independently and later the movies adopted it. I just said that some of these ideas were first discussed in a comic or a book, but they appeared months and even a couple of years later in a movie or TV show. So keeping that in mind, if they are bringing up Poe tapping into the force by any chance, it is entirely possible this is something being seeded based on episode 9 (since the script is in place and shooting begins next month).

It is canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens_Beginner_Game

I don't think a heavy emphasis on criminal gangs and their collecting rare objects is just happenstance if it is seen in more than one comic (appearing in three stories). There has to be some planning to it, especially when something similar is seen in a movie as well.



As for the Last Shot, the seeding of certain plot points is natural and has to be done to connect the book and the movie, and has to give the audience some hints of what to expect. It has to be done retroactively for the seeding to make sense.

Fair enough. But I don't think Poe being force sensitive is some big twist since I don't see him turning into some earthshaking super jedi even if he is force sensitive (at the most making some small display of force ability- for instance, I can see him doing something like Leia sensing Luke in danger in ESB and finding him).

Also, I think there are enough clues (or circumstantial evidence, going by your interpretation) that can be seen as foreshadowing if Poe is confirmed to be force sensitive. I just think that upcoming comic uses some interesting wording and if they take that route, it would confirm something I have been suspecting since I saw TFA.

Wow!!! I cannot wait to read this comic!

Porgblocked? Hahah!

 

IDK how else I'm supposed to take this.

 

So much for people saying Kylo did not torture Rey. Poe and Rey are torture buddies.

 

I wonder what was behind the decision to have that porg jump in between Poe and Rey screaming like that. He was just trying to comfort and get to know her.

 

Felt like one of those cliches in romance movies. When two people are bonding something interrupts them or gets in the way. In this case it was a Porg.

 

In a vacuum, that really sounds to me like a figure of speech. It would work very well if Poe is a Force-user, though.

Fair enough.

I'll have to read that when the trade comes out.

I must be really rusty on the movie; I thought Chewie's bombs simply opened a hole for Poe to fly into.

Checked it again. It really looks like the explosions on the walls are Poe's fire. There's also the question if Poe would've needed the Force to make the shot if it was only one blast. I mean, I'm still not sure from watching the clip why Poe would "need" the Force to do what he does.

Very good point.

Makes sense. I my view is a mix of "I think the movies would've clarified it at this point," "if it's not in canon, we can't know for sure," and "facts over theories." Certainly such a position would be quicker to discount evidence is circumstantial without a smoking gun, which we do not have one way or the other.

Historically, the TV shows were considered more valid than the other tie-ins, so I'll bite.

Very interesting.

Or lucky accidents (I'm positive that the idea of his family having a Force tree was generated long before it was known how Poe and the Force related), but agreed.

I'm not denying that. I guess I've just become extremely cynical about, as far as the movies are concerned, the integrity of canon holding. I'm starting to expect that, sooner or later, we're get back to the pre-Disney model where the tie-ins try to be canon, but the movies honor tie-in canon only in the breach and essentially just run their own show, creating a messy continuity that doesn't hold up that well.

 

I wanna see all three heroes swingin’ lightsabers! Heck yeah!

 

I mean. That would be kinda cool honestly Go back to the prequel style of things. Imagine THAT kind of reveal in the theater where two other lightsabers fly to Poe and Finn. That would be like the dopest trio moment of all time lol

EDIT: no but really, I think these comics so far have done a good job establishing a bond between Rey and Poe. Still can't get over torture buddies for a while though haha

 

Torture Buddies! Rey doesn't really dig it.

 

@WebLurker .... that's great! Am a big fan of RPGs (have collected most of the non-canon ones over the years) and I have a few FFG RPG books too- Ghosts of Dathomir, Nexus of Power and Disciples of Harmony. I know those books are a mix of canon and legend.

TFA Beginner Game and the bonus adventure 'A Call for Heroes' is fully canon, probably because some of the characters and events in TFA (especially the Jakku denizens) make an appearance here as well.

But back to the topic of Poe and force sensitivity, issue #27 is finally out and we have a clarification. Rey thinks Poe might have tapped into the force, Poe isn't convinced (though he brings up the force tree again). Leia clarifies that Poe has the force but also that they all have the force. Based on this, I am guessing that anyone in the galaxy can potentially become a force user.



This might just be my headcanon but I agree with @Strongbow- I would love to see Rey, Finn and Poe as force users (loosely inspired by the Exile and the Ebon Hawk crew).

In my opinion, Leia's words might be foreshadowing this possibility. Again, I don't see Finn and Poe's arc involving Kylo (to defeat or redeem him has to involve Rey)- but there need to be others to fight those remaining KOR (and maybe even other dark side users), and broom boi is a little too young, even if the story picks up 3-4 years later.

The Art of TFA has interesting concept art of a giant battle with several red lightsaber wielding force users attacking and a smaller group of blue lightsaber wielding force users forming a line of defense. It would be amazing if this concept gets recycled to be the war to end all wars that John Boyega talked about for episode 9.



Leia also mentioned that she is not a 100%, needs rest and would speak to Poe separately. I guess this would be about Leia preparing Poe to take over the leadership of the resistance (am happy for Poe but really sad for Leia).

I loved the panels of Rey and Poe bonding after Finn went to check up on Rose. They were quite funny and sweet, which was to be expected....laughed when their conversation was porgblocked and when Poe called them torture-buddies (though Rey doesn't seem completely onboard with the new moniker ). Can't wait for next month's issue!

 

Into the Force and Destiny part, huh? Edge of the Empire is more my speed (love the smuggler and outlaw part of the franchise best), although playing as a FaD Sentinel would be my second choice after Smuggler/Technician, the Morality mechanic sounds like a really fun way to play, and I'd really like a compete set of the lines, if possible.

Does being solely based on canon materials make it canonical, though?

We do know that people have to have a certain level of midi-chlorians to weld the Force, so it's not something everyone can do. I'm taking the scan to be more of the idea that the Force impacts more than just the users but the muggles as well. We have seen this idea in canon before, with various muggle religions that are centered around the Force. Zeb seemed to help direct the Force to find the Lasat homeworld despite being a muggle in the Rebels show. Chirut's flipping the switch in Rogue One apparently showed the Force offering divine protection to a non-user. We also see Jyn bowing her head and holding her Kyber crystal necklace in a critical moment, looking like someone praying while holding rosary beads. Judging by Chirut and Baze's conversation in the Partisan cell, it sounds like muggles can pray to the Force and it could answer them.

I guess, to borrow Judeo-Christian theology (or other religions with similar traditions), I wonder if the Force is like God, the Force users that become Jedi and other such traditions, are like the people in religious accounts that are divinely called to serve God as prophets and miracle workers, and that the muggles are like the rest of the world, not able to perform divinely-powered feats but can still have God/the Force intervene in the course of their lives. So, I think, in this analogy, Poe would be more along the lines of someone who practices a religion than a prophet/miracle worker of said religion. (Bad analogy, but I hope it makes sense).

Wow, I'd really like to know what the story idea was behind this.

Wonder how the franchise will handle Fisher's passing?

If the rumors that the trio will be working together a lot over Episode 9, having some background would be appreciated.

 

I like the role of a Consular the most in Force and Destiny. Edge of the Empire looks like a lot of fun but I don't have any decks or rule book. Someone gifted me the Dawn of Rebellion supplement but I haven't gone through it. Morality definitely makes things more interesting. Can't it be adapted to Edge of the Empire as well?

Well, not by itself. But the map in the game is canon (I think this was confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo some time back), the images used in the book are from TFA and even the places, characters and game itself are listed as canon on wookiepedia (and some of the characters can be found in TFA also). So it made sense to me for the game to be canon as well.

You could be right but I just feel God would be intervening a little too often in Poe's life for him to be a regular muggle.

But on the topic of the force, Leia's comment in the new comic made me re-visit a set of tweets by Pablo Hidalgo where he discusses how the force works in SW. Here is a link to a discussion on reddit with all his tweets:



Everyone has a connection to the force, and is capable of using it so there really is not distinction between wizards and muggles. He even implies that even Han used the force while flying (from a certain POV) though he didn't believe in the force. People exhibiting remarkable abilities and capable of swaying people are using the force.

I think they are also moving away from the notion that a person requires a certain number of midichlorians to qualify as a force sensitive (which is a great thing in my opinion).

In Poe's case, he is a prodigy when it comes to flying and shooting as evidenced in both TFA and TLJ, and now even he admits he feels like he tapped into something at the time. In another issue, he switched off the comm of his x-wing (like Luke in ANH) to focus before escaping a dangerous cave-in. And he is also capable of swaying people, though unintentionally. There are many instances of this in the comics but even in TFA and TLJ, people were ready to follow him into battle or even to mutiny.

And of course, the force tree given to his family has come up again in the latest comic (The original tree constantly comes up in different canon books and comics). I still think it is a strange choice for Luke to have given Poe's mother a force tree from the old jedi temple (which is the equivalent of a holocron and the location padawans trained in canon) if that story line is going nowhere especially since they constantly bring up force trees in canon. Mystical trees play an important role in many religions, including Buddhism which heavily influenced Star Wars lore. The Buddha gained enlightenment under a Bo tree, and saplings from that tree were considered equally sacred. Going by this, the force tree being planted on Poe's family ranch screams of a mystical/spiritual element i.e. the force being involved when it comes to Poe.

Poe even mentions that he grew up hearing stories about the force, with even Leia telling him stories of Obi-wan. So he has both a connection to the force and a strong belief in it. Looking back at those tweets has made me even more convinced that Poe could be revealed to be a force user.

The piece is titled 'Snow Battle, Destroyer Shot Down'. There isn't much written about it except that it might be an ice planet, the red lightsabers are going towards the structure and a line of blue lightsabers is defending it. I just find it fascinating because we are yet to see multiple lightsabers in a battle situation in the movies (except maybe the fight on Geonosis in AOTC) but even there it wasn't a large scale battle where lightsabers clashed.

In a previous Poe Dameron comic, Leia has a talk with Poe about leadership and she makes a comment that strongly foreshadows her passing away in the future (since Poe had spoken a few panels before at a funeral about them all being luminous). The latest issue shows that she is tired and wants to discuss something with Poe.

I am taking a guess here but I think Leia might pass away before or in the early part of episode 9. One explanation they could give is that her being shot into space affected her health and she eventually passes away. But I have to admit, these are the parts of the comics I skim past because they make me sad.

I'm completely on board with the idea of the three of them spending time and working together. (something long overdue!) I hope we get some minor adventures of the trio in the comics to tide us until next December (nothing to make the general audience feel left out but enough to keep more hard core fans happy).

I guess I am excited to see Rey and Poe finally interact and it is turning out to be as fun as I always imagined it would be.

 

Okay. I think I'd prefer a more action oriented role, but I could see a Healer being an interesting way to have a team medic or the Consular serving as the voice of reason for the players.

General mechanics are the same, but the species and ships are mostly different. Some overlap in general tech. Fluff is different, of course. If you want to play Firefly in the Star Wars universe, this's the book you want (although can also play as law-abiding cargo haulers, citizens of an old west-style town, or other types of careers on the frontiers).

I have that one and have read through a lot of it. It's designed to fit with any of the lines, although the emphasis on pre-AHN Rebels cells might make it fit best for an AOR campaign. You get a lot of stats for Rebels characters and some Rogue One ones as well (although there are some really odd exclusions, like Jyn Erso). New species are background Rouge One aliens, which I found disappointing (I wanted official stats for Lasats and Madalorian humans, like in a fan PDF I found online). A few new worlds, including the Death Star (hard to imagine a way to use that in a canon-compliant game, although AU campaigns could go nuts with it).

Beyond having Rebels character stats and stats for the new tech and stormtroopers from Rebels/Rogue One, what I like most are the new universal specialization trees, which allow for a wider range of character possibilities, like muggle Force worshipers, Clone Trooper veterans and Padawan survivors.

Yeah, it can. The Force and Destiny book has some guidelines for blending the lines together if you want Force users and Rebels and scoundrels to work together like they do in the movies and one option is to give everyone the same mechanic irregardless of their "home" series. On the other hand, each mechanic is kinda tailored to their specific genre that it might make for a wonky experience replacing one with the other. I'm aware that Duty is used to generate advancement through the ranks in AOR, for example.

I haven't had a chance to play yet, so I'm just spitballing, but I understand that Morality is a bit unforgiving and I could see that trying to play as a team of antiheroes, like the Firefly crew, could be really tricky. At the end of the day, though, whatever is more fun should be the way to go. One interesting idea I've heard is to give characters two mechanics. As a movie example, Han Solo would have two, Obligation (his debt to Jabba and subsequent bounty) and Duty (his loyalty to the Rebels and his friends). So, case by case basis?

I think the Wook is inconsistent in how it considers the FFG stuff (I've seen them post data in canon articles from sourcebooks they designated as Legends) and, at the end of the day, LucasFilm is the final decider on that. If Hidalgo said that aspect is canon, I'd trust that more than the Wook.

Maybe, although in movie land, characters do tend to have fate, God, or random chance help them more than in real life.

That doesn't really make any sense to me, as explained below.

However, TMP is pretty clear that a person does require a certain number of midichlorians to qualify as a force sensitive (and that movie was described as something new canon must adhere to). Also, if anyone could learn to use the Force, what point is there in singling out certain ones? Anyone could be a Jedi (or a "child of the Force" that the Empire hunted down). Frankly, I never understood the dislike of the midi-chlorians. If it was because of bringing "science" to something mystical, ANH beat them to that. The very first thing we learn about the Force being that it's an "energy field" that surrounds the universe and can be tapped into. The Force has always had a foot in both science and mysticism. (Besides, trying to ignore a key piece of canon just undermines the internal integrity of the franchise more than working with it to create something that balances out the old and new ideas.) My two cents.

Interesting, esp. that no one's bothered to seed this into the movies, where it would be paramount to have these things (if Poe is indeed supposed to be a Force user).

Maybe the tree's importance was retroactive?

I still maintain that it's a mistake to only set this up in tie-ins that only a fraction of the movie audience will see, leaving the movies with zero indication that this will/might happen.

Given how tricky it is to make sabers, I really wonder what the story behind them would've been.

Since LucasFilm has been consistent with the idea that Leia will not be recast for Episode 9 and I don't see them having her die in the movie without actually seeing her (even if they use stock footage and audio somehow), so my money's on her passing away between the movies. What I wonder is if that'll be told in a tie-in or if they'll leave it alone and not make a story out of it (e.g. have her die in the line of duty vs. passing away in her sleep or something).

I just hope that Episode 9 doesn't step on the toes of the tie-ins.

 

I like being the arbiter and generally avoiding fights. It can be boring for most, but I kind of enjoy it.

Sounds really interesting. Am planning to look into the book this weekend. Maybe even order the Edge of the Empire book and cards to try it out.

Disciples of Harmony delves into this a bit (the muggle force worshipers part).

I guess that blending would be a good way to go since an apples to apples equivalent of both sets of characters would be near impossible while determining which mechanic to give.

That makes a lot of sense, though I personally would find it a little confusing in practice.

I agree. Wookieepedia is made by fans so there is a chance for error. Maybe someone should ask Pablo Hidalgo about its canon status?

But the RPG game being canon aside, the material in the game book that the first order built large ships and had trained large numbers of officers and stormtroopers is canon since it is shown in TLJ and also mentioned in Finn's Story and the Phasma novel.

In the GFFA, that would be the force. So the force obviously likes Poe a lot.

But it is the canon stance on how the force works and who qualifies as force sensitive. I guess they want to return to the position in ANH where a person who really wanted to become a jedi trained and became one. It does make the force more inclusive, which I personally like.

Pablo Hidalgo explained in the tweets on the force that using midichlorians to judge force sensitivity was a narrow view held by some jedi, and it was a narrow minded view point given purely for narrative purposes. So even if it was mentioned in TPM, it was being used (even back then) to explain the jedi order's flawed way of thinking, not as something good. At the end of the day, the canon stance is that judging people's force sensitivity by midichlorians was a restricted view.

And even if we consider midichlorians, Poe's midichlorians were never tested. How can we just assume Poe has low or no midichlorians? He learned to fly an A-wing at the age of six, and even built and flew a podracer as a child.

Going by how Anakin's flying skills in TPM were used as a clue to his force sensitivity, I don't see why Poe should be treated differently.

I disagree. Poe's incredible flying and shooting have been depicted innumerable times in both TFA and TLJ. He is constantly called the best pilot in the resistance, best pilot in the galaxy....even Kylo states that he is impressed that nobody managed to get information out of Poe.



- He flew a special forces TIE despite being unfamiliar with the controls despite being brutally tortured and mind probed just a short while before.

- He did that incredible flying on Takodana. The camera literally focuses on him doing incredible aerial maneuvers while shooting down TIEs and picking off stormtroopers on the ground just next to Finn and Han, but not hitting them. Finn even reiterates Poe's incredible skills by exclaiming - that's one hell of a pilot!



- He took the shot that blew up SKB. Poe shoots in the aerial battle before flying into the well where the oscillator is housed but not after.



The green laser shots seen as Poe makes his run before hitting the oscillator are coming from the TIEs behind him and are not his shots.The shots can easily be differentiated since the FO shots are green and the ones Poe and the other resistance pilots make are reddish-yellow. (This has been the case in the OT also where imperial lasers are green and the rebels are reddish-yellow)



He only makes a single shot at the oscillator before flying out of the well. This again is a testament to his accurate and incredible shooting/flying skills.

- In TLJ, He blew off the cannon emplacements of a dreadnought alone and even out maneuvered TIEs while doing this. No other 'muggle' pilots have done this kind of flying in a SW movie (since we are taking movies in a vacuum to discuss seeding of an idea).



All this is clearly shown and even mentioned in the movie. So the fact that Poe shows exceptional abilities has been blatantly seeded into the movies.

QUOTE="WebLurker, post: 55090507, member: 1419038"] Maybe the tree's importance was retroactive? [/QUOTE]

The great tree was important years before issue #27 of the Poe Dameron comic, and has been making an appearance from as far back as 2011.

- It first appeared in concept art in 2011 while depicting the training grounds of the jedi temple.(and is still part of the Star Wars website image gallery so still canon)

- It then appeared in an episode of TCW where jedi padawans were training beside it.

- It made several appearances in the trials of Yoda, both when Yoda hears Qui Gon's ghost calling to him, and subsequently in his visions where he sees the whole jedi order standing under the tree (obviously emphasizing its importance).



- TCW ends with Yoda near the force tree after experiencing visions of the future and learning to be a force ghost, so again it is important.



- The force tree sapling that Luke gives Shara Bey is depicted with a glow around it, alluding to it being no ordinary tree.



- The Poe Flight Logbook mentions how Poe played on the branches of the tree as a child, and even looked after it for some time.

- The Forces of Destiny TV show has Ahsoka being given a bead for her padawan braid by Yoda at a ceremony in front of the force tree. (again signifying its importance)



- Now the tree has once again been mentioned in the latest Poe Dameron comics in relation to the force.

Based on this, it is clear that the force tree's importance and relevance was planned a long time back, and isn't something decided retroactively.

You are focusing on each point independently.

I am saying that when Poe's extraordinary skills in TFA and TLJ are taken into account combined with the tie-in canon material, there is a clear background to explain Poe being a force sensitive.

The movie audience is well aware of Poe's skills. Even if you remove the tie-in materials, people will just re-visit the instances of his abilities being exhibited in TFA and TLJ and connect the dots. The tie-in material is just the potential foreshadowing for more hard core fans.

Since the Art of TFA has a few mentions of Rey finding the lost jedi (force sensitives who did not have the chance to become jedi), my interpretation is that this could be a battle between the few Rey finds and trains vs. the dark side users working for the First Order.

I agree. Even if her death comes up in the movie, they might start the movie with her funeral so fans can mourn too (something not done for Han, sadly). I cannot see them recasting either.

I found the canon largely consistent with TLJ being the only material that often goes against other canon. With all the backlash, I'm certain they will be much more cautious about inconsistencies.

 

Fair enough.

Cards?

If I find that book, I'll have to check on that.

Yeah, and it sounds more interesting if players have different kinds of motivations and problems.

I kinda try to look past the rules and get an idea of what the story is supposed to be. At the end of the day, the rules are just to provide structure for a story.

I suppose Twitter would be the way to ask that.

Agreed.

Well, he is a big deal in the Resistance...

Even in the context of the original movies, I really got the idea that not everyone could be a Jedi, but fair enough.

All right then.

Fair point.

Well, if they do make Poe a Force user, I hope they capitalize on all this in the reveal.

Huh. Every time I see the movie, it looks like its coming from the X-Wing. Weird.

I suppose. I guess given that movie characters often seem able to do impossible stuff, it can be hard to tell what's supposed to be superhuman and what we're supposed to see as "normal" (case in point, in real life, Black Widow would be superhuman, but we're supposed to see her as "just" being a highly trained professional.)

Good research. I was only thinking about the tree the Damerons were given, though. Was that event in Shattered Empire intended to build into something (like Poe being a Force user) or was that seed planted with the idea that other writers would decide where it went?

I guess everything he did in the movies seemed like it was in the normal range for a muggle within movie logic to me. Mileage may vary.

Well, if the movies go this route, I hope that it works well and is an "aha" moment, not a "what the heck?" one.

That could be interesting, although given that the sequel trilogy has had only a small number of Force users, I kinda wish that they'd stick with that to the end.

Or maybe doing something like they did in Star Trek Beyond when Leonard Nimoy passed away.

Maybe. I have gotten the impression that the filmmakers are essentially give free reign to do what they want irregardless of the continuity issues it creates with the tie-ins.

 

I mean the accessories. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/...aying-accessories/products/scum-and-villainy/

I'm a bit of a completionist so tend to buy the whole series of anything that interests me.

I like that book a lot, probably more than Ghosts of Dathomir (which I expected to like but was a little disappointed)

That's very true.

I did ask about the map more than a year ago and found it was canon. Didn't bother asking about the rest as I was more interested in which planets were canon at the time.

One can argue that the force helped him become a big deal in the resistance.
.

I'm sure a reveal (if they make one) would be a build up from all this.

The laser color of the shots makes it relatively easy to see which ships are shooting, and all the lasers are green during the run in the well.

The old explanation (not sure if its canon anymore) for this color difference is that the quality of Tibanna gas used by imperials was superior to what the rebels could access. Now I think its just the signature color of each side based on what was depicted in the OT being retained for consistency- green (imperial/FO) and red (rebel/resistance).

I do agree with your point here, which is probably why I am waiting for a movie confirmation to be certain.

Its just that so far only force sensitive pilots have shown a commensurate level of skill in the movies.

Thanks! I've been following stories linked to the Jedi Temple Tree since 2014 (the Yoda's trial episodes in TCW are my favorites), which is probably why Poe got my attention in 2015 after I read Shattered Empire (and my suspicions of his being a force sensitive from back then).

From what I have read in old interviews, the LF Story Group gave Greg Rucka the idea of incorporating the jedi temple tree into the Shattered Empire story. This could be just for that story but it makes me think they have something in mind for it later, especially since that specific tree has continued to pop up in other stories as well.

For what he did to belong to a normal 'muggle' range, a muggle needs to have done something similar. No regular pilot has pulled off what Poe has done in the movies, or for that matter even come close to it (especially since even Han is supposed to have channeled the force in canon while flying).

The only people flying like he does or having such unerring aim have been force users. Until a regular pilot pulls off something similar the canon movies to set a benchmark, what Poe pulled off in the movies is beyond normal.

I am expecting it to be mostly the former since SW is known for its dramatic reveals. There will always be people in the audience who don't want Poe to be force sensitive so a few 'what the heck?' reactions will definitely happen. But I'll settle for a good number of "aha" responses in case it happens.

I guess I'm in the other camp, and want to see more force users and lightsaber battles. I really enjoyed that aspect of the prequels a lot, with lots of space wizards in their cool robes.

When TFA was being promoted, I imagined all three characters were force sensitive- Finn (because of the lightsaber on the poster), Poe (because of the force tree in Shattered Empire) and Rey (because of the rumors). There were even promotional pics of Daisy Ridley, John Boyega and Oscar Isaac holding lightsabers to promote TFA (none of the other cast members were promoted like this as far as I am aware).



So I wasn't happy that they revealed only Rey as the force sensitive among the trio in TFA.

I collect action figures and there has seriously been an overdose of rebels, imperials and a variety of blasters in the new movies (with repetitive costumes) but not enough mystical looking stuff (except maybe Chirrut who wears a nice costume). I am really hoping for more of that in episode 9.

I also think it would give Rey and Poe something to bond over.

In my opinion, poor Luke had a very heavy burden rebuilding the jedi order alone and that could have contributed to its eventual destruction. If Rey has the help of force sensitive Poe and Finn (even Kylo if he is redeemed), there would be more people helping her to shoulder the burden and their chances of success at rebuilding also increase. Maybe that is why Leia tells them they need to know one another and are all they have left.

I'd weep buckets in the theater if they did that.

I think they are to a large extent (or at least Rian Johnson might have been given free reign. According to old interview, JJ consulted the story group a lot and the story group gave a lot of input for RO too, as evidenced in the set visits shown on The Star Wars Show).

But after the recent backlash, its unlikely they are going to let people do what they want with impunity (look at even how Lord and Miller were fired for improv and deviating from the movie script).

 

I know the feeling. Me, I'm hooked on getting all the rule books, but for cards, I'd rather just type up my own notes or write them down on note cards. Cheaper than buying reference cards I don't really need.

Isn't the Ghosts book a pre-made adventure? (Only pre-made I have myself so far is Jewel of Yavin. You gotta love Ocean's Eleven/Leverage-style heist stuff.)

 

Makes sense to write your own notes etc, especially if you are not into collecting the cards. I personally like the cards.

Yes, it is a pre-made adventure (which can get tedious- I primarily got it because it heavily features my favourite planet). Jewel of Yavin sounds fun- on the topic of Oceans' Eleven, I was really hoping the new Solo movie would be an adaptation of Timothy Zahn's legends novel Scoundrels.

I don't think there was any heavy duty serious planning as much as a potential end goal for the tree, considering it once belonged to the original jedi order.

For instance, I can see Poe's force tree being linked to Rey's new jedi order since the original tree was located beside the jedi training grounds and the location of ceremonies (like the one where Ahsoka received more silka beads for her padawan braid to show her growth as a jedi).

With this end goal in mind, they could insert references to the tree in different canon materials where they feel the tree being mentioned or seen would make sense so people continue to be aware of its existence.

I wouldn't mind seeing him do some impressive stuff but I wouldn't keep my hopes up with the rumors of Qi'ra and Chewie being the ones who complete the Kessel run. Even if he does impressive stuff, it would only reaffirm the idea of Han connecting to the force while flying (which he called luck and Obi-wan considered the force).

Maybe. I guess this is a personal preference. To me, more force users means more discussion in movies of how the force works, more lightsaber battles etc (a more fairy tale element). In my opinion, if I wanted to just watch two human factions in uniforms fight battles, then I would just rent a war movie not a space fantasy.

Finn's melee weapon background in the novel really helped him in the lightsaber fight, especially his managing to injure Kylo. I hope he gets another chance to use a lightsaber again in episode 9.

Unless you had read Shattered Empire comics and the Before the Awakening novel, it is unlikely that you'd think Poe was force sensitive. In the comic, we learn about the force tree (hidden by Palpatine in a secret facility) and young Poe. In the novel, Leia mentions that Poe's flying reminds her of Luke and later Poe senses Leia mourning the loss of someone, describing it as a blanket wrapped around her.

Having read both, I did expect a reveal at some point of time that Poe was force sensitive. Rey is a little trickier. The Before the Awakening novel does give the impression she is a fast learner and ends up being proficient at whatever she tries. But I have to say that the early plot leaks were where I first heard that Rey was a force sensitive.

I normally collect the 3.75 inch Hasbro action figures but also have some black series, Kotobukiya, S.H. Figurarts and Hot Toys. Characters are definitely important, but I also give some importance to costume. There are only so many variants of the characters that one would want to buy.

Most of the regular resistance members are either in pilot uniforms, brown uniforms etc. Similarly, the FO are in black or stormtrooper gear. C3PO at least added some variety when either an arm or a leg was of a different colour. In TFA, there were at least some interesting Nima scavengers in interesting costumes.

In contrast, the prequel costumes were so much more interesting. Even if the jedi masters mostly wore traditional brown robes, many of them had personalized accessories (with interesting stories behind them) and unique lightsabers or other weapons (like Chirrut's kyber topped staff and lightbow). This is probably why I hope we get more force user action figures.

I agree with you completely. I don't want Poe to become a force user just to scratch off a diversity checklist or just to give him a reason to bond with Rey.

Rey and Poe have common interests and friends for them to at least be great friends. I just see Poe's potential force sensitivity as one more thing on which they could work together rather than the only thing. He has seen strange force related creatures on his travels which he could talk to Rey about....and going by the new comic, he could tell her more about his force tree (since he brought it up in their conversation), she could tell him about Luke's force projection since he was curious about it (until the porg distracted them) or the three of them (Finn, Rey and Poe) could go over the jedi texts to make sense of it.

I love the idea of the jedi having regular normal lives and "day jobs" but meeting to jointly make decisions or in case a threat/emergency arose. Tbh, I had no problem with the monastic existence of the jedi either. I just didn't like the idea of them being so cut off from regular peopl.

I would like to see them become more hands on, something like the Guardians of the Whills and the Disciples of the Whills who were a spiritual order but lived among the common people, teaching them and helping those in need rather than serving political interests.

I never really liked the old five levels of canon that existed before the Disney acquisition, and this is probably one of the main reasons why I was happy when a story group was created in 2012 to ensure canon was kept uniform across all media.

Its also probably why I wasn't terribly upset that the old lore was relegated to legends. If they never intended to keep canon lore as uniform as possible (barring a few minor changes here and there), then I don't see any reason for them to have got rid of legends if canon is just as expendable.

Lol. I am not saying I am privy to their meetings, but I am basing my speculation on the reported reasons they fired some of the directors as well as some of the fired director's own statements.

For instance, when Lord and Miller were fired, the stuido cited "creative differences" but there were also reports by magazines like Variety that the directors “were stunned to find that they were not being granted freedom to run the production in the manner that they were accustomed to. They balked at Kennedy’s tight control on the set.”

There were also the Rogue One reshoots were Tony Gilory was brought in to change the tone of the movie, after Gareth Edwards had already made a diector's cut. (Tony Gilory mentions this on The Moment with Brian Koppelman podcast)

Finally, there is the firing of Colin Trevorrow where again there are reports that Kathleen Kennedy was unhappy with the script.

Going by these director's experiences, I somehow doubt Rian Johnson (or for that matter any other director) would be allowed complete free reign he once enjoyed on any subsequent SW movies, especially after the TLJ backlash.

 

My issue about Poe being a Force User is that I don't like the message that "you have to have the Force to be awesome." That gets too close to DBZ logic for my tastes. Also the idea that you have to be two Force Users in order to find common ground or "bond" is silly imo. There's no reason why Rey and Poe cannot find said common ground even if one of them isn't a Force User. Luke and Han did, Rey and Finn did, etc.

 

Not really a Solo spoiler, but just in case:

Spoiler

Apparently, based on the Solo movie info, Han was 32 in ANH. Poe is 32 as of TFA.

Make of that what you will.

 

Hmmm... not sure there IS anything to make of it, but... interesting none-the-less. Oh wait.... you're thinking he's Rey's ultimate love interest? I admit they have good chemistry, but so do Finn and Rey. We'll see.

 

From what we’ve seen onscreen thus far, I think FinnRey is more likely and is much better set-up, but age-pottery is a Thing in the Saga, it seems. Rey’s and Finn’s ages were almost certainly deliberately chosen based on that principle.

Just thought PoeRey speculators might find that interesting.