Pokemon Trial Draft Now Open -- Winner: Specterace

Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by The_Chim, Feb 29, 2008.

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  1. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, Agree

    Man, I do really plan on doing some theatre, but I've got some career stuff to figure out. Hopefully I can do a little bit soon...
  2. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Let's keep it moving before I hit another rough spot.


    Round Two
    The Rated R Pokestars (2) vs. Sea Electric Air Land Squad(SEALS) (2)
    Dismay's Rangers (0) vs. Kyp's Kids (4)




    Next number is THREE.


    Round Two
    Golem vs. Moltres
    Suicune vs. Kingdra Prepared with Trainer Misty


    Location: Viridian Forest/>
  3. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    Fairly simple match, I think.

    For one, just about all of Moltres' attacks are ineffective against Golem. Flying does next to nothing, and the same goes with fire. Golem, on the other hand, has some powerful rock moves he can use to down Moltres (Rock Throw, Rock Blast, and the high-critical hit Stone Edge), something that will prove VERY effective considering that Moltres not only happens to have a weakness to Rock-type moves, but a 4X weakness to Rock Moves.

    (Strength to types) + (powerful moves of the corresponding type) + (4X weakness to type on the opponent) = Win for Golem

    Specterace
  4. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Golem vs. Moltres

    Rarely am I willing to vote for a ground Pokemon over a flying one, but this just seems to be one of those cases. With Moltres being dangerously weak to Rock, and Golem being resistant to Fire, sooner or later he'll manage to get a hit in on Moltres and that'll be the end of it. Could go the other way, though, if Moltres doesn't swoop down for a Sky Attack and such.

    Suicune vs. Kingdra Prepared with Trainer Misty

    :oops:

    Water against Water, just wonderful. I'm going to have to vote Kingdra here, simply because of the trainer advantage and the powerful Dragon moves that will actually be able to damage Suicune normally. The higher attack and special attack mean that Kingdra is going to be dealing out some heavy damage here, and its speed means that it'll be able to keep up with Suicune. Extremely difficult match, though.
  5. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Okay, yeah, that second match is over and there's no reason to hold this up. So, Agree
  6. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Short and sweet...


    Round Two
    The Rated R Pokestars (3) vs. Sea Electric Air Land Squad(SEALS) (2)
    Dismay's Rangers (0) vs. Kyp's Kids (5)




    Next number is FIVE.


    Round Two
    Arcanine vs. Crobat
    Slowbro vs. Nidoking


    Location: Pokemon Battle Cruise Ship/>
  7. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, I have some opinions but this isn't nearly as clear-cut as the last match. Worth the wait indeed.
  8. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Arcanine vs. Crobat

    Somewhat difficult match here, but it boils down to two things for me. One, Crobat is a lot faster than Arcanine. Two, location. Arcanine is at a lot more of a disadvantage than Crobat is with the location. Arcanine being large and heavy, and Crobat being small, light, and able to fly. If Crobat can avoid getting hit, then it can weaken Arcanine with Poison and whittle down his health from a distance with ranged attacks.

    Slowbro vs. Nidoking

    This match is considerably easier. With Nidoking being weak to both Water and Psychic attacks, Slowbro is not going to have to wait long before Nidoking is knocked out. Nidoking does have Megahorn, which would be effective against Slowbro, but I think Slowbro has enough variety with his moves (including Disable) that it'd be able to win before Nidoking got the upper...er, claw.
  9. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    Huh? I REALLY don't agree with that decision AT ALL. Arcanine should be the winner here.

    For one thing, there's no type advantage in this match. Therefore, all damage depends purely on long-distance move power and stats. In this regard, Arcanine has two BIG moves: Flamethrower (95 Power) and Heat Wave (100 Power). Crobat has no move that even approaches this type of base power. Plus, both Arcanine's Attack and his Sp. Attack (the stats determining how much damage he'll do with his attacks) is higher than Crobat's by a good margin (40 points difference for Attack, and 60 for Sp. Attack), and their defense is the same, with Arcanine having a slight HP advantage. Basically, it's a matter of Arcanine out-gunning Crobat in offense in a long-distance battle.

    As for evasion? Crobat can get airborne, yes, but the size adavantage is nowhere near what you think it is: Arcanine stands at six feet and 341 pounds. Plenty small enough to maneuver on the Battle Cruise ship decks. Crobat, on the other hand, is MASSIVE for a flyer, with his 5'11 height and god knows how much wingspan. There's virtually no practical maneuverability advantage in terms of size here: Crobat with his size is a MASSIVE target for those Arcanine long-distance flame moves, so much so Arcanine would basically have to be blinder than a Zubat to miss it. And judging by how much fire it can belch and how big the flames are likely to be with Arcanine, he'll hit him eventually. On the other hand, Arcanine can always use it's speed to dodge behind cover on the ship whatever winds come from Crobat.

    So without a type advantage, Arcainine's available cover and manuverability, and Crobat's big size target, that basically means that Crobat has to get in close to Arcanine to hit him with most of his attacks (and ALL Poison attacks Crobat has [namely, Cross Poison and Poison Fang] require close-range). The problem is, that's where Arcanine can open up on Crobat EVEN MORE. Crobat getting in close opens up the chance for Arcanine to use Lightning Fang (2X damage to Crobat), Crunch, Fire Fang, Flame Wheel, Extremespeed, and the uber-powerful Flare Blitz. If Crobat's not careful, he'll find himself totaled and grounded before he can get in a single hit. And if Arcanine can reach him to bite those wings off, Crobat will be grounded on the deck, and at Arcanine's mercy.

    It's a good battle, and it will be fun to see the war of attrition at the beginning, but I think Arcainine's superior firepower, his availability of cover, his moveset, and Crobat's vulnerability at being SO DAMNED BIG for a flyer should give Arcanine the win here.

    Specterace
  10. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Let's look at Crobat's ranged abilities, shall we?

    Screech, Supersonic, Confuse Ray, Mean Look (pointless), Air Cutter, Haze, and Air Slash.

    Arcanine has:

    Roar (again, pointless), Odor Sleuth, Heat Wave, Flamethrower, Leer, and Helping Hand (still pointless).

    Crobat has the advantage in ranged here, and variety of what it can do. Crobat may be large, but he's also not restricted to the deck. Sure, Arcanine has free range on the large deck, but it'd be rather difficult for it to maneuver in smaller areas. Plus, Crobat has the ability to simply fly off the side and duck down where Arcanine would be unable to reach it. Crobat isn't that obvious of a target, with its speed (70 points higher than Arcanine's, I might add) it'd have little trouble dodging moves like Flamethrower.
  11. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Arcanine only has a few long-range moves, but they're very effective with a hit. With its intimidate ability, as well as roar, it'll have a psychological advantage and is also pretty smart. Haze won't do much for long, as arcanine will burn through it. Crobat's advantages are its ability to poison and confuse, and its speed. But arcanine can increase its speed, and I don't really think crobat, even if it confuses arcanine, is gonna be able to close the deal before arcanine catches it with a few devastating heat blasts. Just as likely crobat gets burned as arc gets poisoned, so I'm gonna go with Arcanine

    Slowbro of course
  12. Dom_Perignon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2006
    star 3
    I'm not very sure on this, but I like Aracnine. I was going with Crobat initially, but took a close look at its move set. Most of its attacks have a need for Crobat to be up close. If Arcanine's speed was less than what it was, then I would give it to Crobat. But as it isn't, Arcanine will hit it hard when it gets in close. Supersonic is a very viable reason why Crobat could possibly win, but even if Arcanine is confused, Crobat having to get close to land a good poison hit, or something like wing attack or bite, would spell trouble for it.
  13. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah Arcaine!



    Round Two
    The Rated R Pokestars (4) vs. Sea Electric Air Land Squad(SEALS) (2)
    Dismay's Rangers (1) vs. Kyp's Kids (5)




    And there you have the first and last play off round is over with a surprising farewell to BaSSiL, and we are saying goodbye to RX as well. Thanks to you two for playing, we will see you next time!

    For the two teams remaining, Kyp's and Specter's, congratulations on making it this far. You are officially part of the the first Pokemon Championship Match we have had. You each have 24 hours, give or take, to get your numbers in to me, so let's keep this round sim free shall we?



    Championship Round
    Kyp's Kids vs. The Rated R Pokestars



    />
  14. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Wow. My predictions... Were so wrong...
  15. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Nothing like a good surprise in a draft, I suppose.
  16. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    Numbers in, good luck Specter.
  17. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    Numbers in, and the same to you Kyp.

    Specterace
  18. Tyi-Maet_Nefer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2005
    star 6
    I'm not surprised to see Kypt in there. He's always been for this draft. :D

    Enjoy the final.
  19. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    That was fast guys good job, so fast I didn't have enough time to put it all together last night. But that's ok I will put out a number now to keep your urges for a new match low, so thanks guys!



    Championship Round
    Kyp's Kids vs. The Rated R Pokestars


    Let's keep things simple and start it all off with a favorite...
    ONE.

    Typhlosion vs. Arcanine


    Location: Cinibar Islands Volcano Crater

    Looks like a real slobber-knocker.
  20. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    At first glance, yeah.

    Typhlosion vs. Arcanine

    Rollout. Quick Attack. Repeat until Arcanine faints. Typhlosion is faster than Arcanine, and Rollout is an attack which is very effective against Arcanine. Arcanine lacking anything of the sort to use against Typhlosion means that this'll be a simple one. Yeah, Arcanine has some pretty powerful moves, but Typhlosion can keep up with stuff like Eruption and Double-edge. Typhlosion also has bunch of convenient Normal moves, while Arcanine focuses primarily on Fire moves.
  21. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
  22. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    Sorry. I disagree completely. But I have class in a few minutes, so any further arguments from me will have to wait a few hours.

    Still, I will part with a few little factlets and tasks for TLI to munch on:

    1) Extremespeed >>>>> Quick Attack

    2) Bite OR Crunch > Swift

    3) One of these Pokemon posesses the ability to sharply increase his speed (and by extension, his practical evasiveness) in a battle. The other does not. Guess which one does.

    4) One of these Pokemon can negate any effort of the other to boost it's evasiveness or lower accuracy. The other cannot. Guess which one can.

    5) One of these Pokemon posesses 6 non-Fire type attacking moves, all with over 65 base power. The other also posesses 6 non-fire attacking moves, but only 3 of them are over 65 base power, with one of those moves HURTING THE USER. Guess which is the former, and which is the latter. When you do, take some time to look at that little statement saying that Typhlosion is more versatile in his moveset than Arcanine, and see for yourself how LOL-worthy it really is.

    Specterace
  23. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    1) Not that essential, but both have moves that strike first. Small difference in damage, but Arcanine has a harder time hitting Typhlosion than Typhlosion does Arcanine.

    2) Bite/Crunch = close range, Swift = ranged. Swift = can't miss.

    3) Agility raises speed. The points Agility raises it by still won't bring it up to Typhlosion's speed. Best it can do is make it a bit closer.

    4) If boosting evasiveness/lowering accuracy is not a prime component of a Pokemon's moveset, 99% of the time I'd say any of those moves are practically useless to begin with.

    5)
    Arcanine: 2 Normal, 6 Fire, 2 Dark, 1 Electric, 1 Fighting.
    Typhlosion: 4 Normal, 6 Fire, 1 Rock (x2 damage vs. Fire!), 1 Steel (x0.5 damage vs. Fire!).

    Flare Blitz and Take Down, two of Arcanine's best moves, both damage him. Take Down has 85% accuracy. Reversal won't get really effective until Arcanine is half-out to begin with.
  24. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    ...

    Are you serious?!?

    Let's take this one by one:

    1) Extremespeed = 80 base power. Quick Attack = 40 base power. That's not a "small" difference in damage between moves, that's a difference of one move being TWO TIMES stronger than another! Where you got that crazy idea that the difference was "small", I haven't the slightest idea.

    2) Swift is SUPPOSEDLY can't miss. But I doubt it's actually can't miss when you have a super-agility boosted Arcanine who's Extremespeeding the living hell out of Typhlosion, thus, you know, not actually giving him a target to aim at to begin with. Or, actually, letting him get an attack off, for that matter. Basically, there's a FAR higher chance of Arcanine spamming Agility and Extremespeed to pull off a "rinse and repeat" cycle on Typhlosion than Typhlosion doing the same to Arcanine with Rollout and Quick Attack, especially when Typhlosion has no way to regain the speed advantage he loses to Arcanine once Arcainie uses Agility. And that increased speed and agility lets Arcanine get in close at will to Typhlosion, meaning that he has a far greater chance to use Bite and Crunch (moves more powerful than Swift) on Typhlosion before Typhlosion can counter back with anything.

    3)

    Do you actually look at the stat sheets before making judgments, TLI? Or do you just make stuff up off the top of your head and accept it as fact?

    Take a look:

    Typhlosion: 299 Speed
    Arcanine: 289 Speed.

    Where is this massive advantage in speed you see that Typhlosion has over Arcanine, TLI? Furthermore, are you actually trying to argue that a move that SHARPLY increases speed (like Agility is clearly and blatantly described as being) won't at least boost Arcanine's speed by that 11 speed he needs to be FASTER than Typhlosion? Please. That line of argument is even more laughable when you consider that Arcanine can use Agility MULTIPLE TIMES.

    Basically, here's what I'm trying to say: Arcanine is NATURALLY almost as fast as Typhlosion. By using a move that SHARPLY raises speed, Arcanine becomes FASTER than Typhlosion. The speed advantage is clearly with Arcanine, not Typhlosion. That advantage becomes greater with every Agility Arcanine uses.

    4) But that thing with lowering accuracy/increasing evasion IS important. Your whole argument on why Typhlosion can beat Arcanine is heavily dependent on Typhlosion being able to hit Arcanine more than Arcanine can hit Typhlosion. Also, Typhlosion's Smokescreen is a move he's likely to use when the going gets tough and he needs to regroup. Unfortunately, Arcanine's Odor Sleuth makes Smokescreen useless. And Typhlosion isn't exactly all that small, either, seeing how it's 5 feet tall and Arcanine's 6 feet tall.

    5) "Arcanine: 2 Normal, 6 Fire, 2 Dark, 1 Electric, 1 Fighting.
    Typhlosion: 4 Normal, 6 Fire, 1 Rock (x2 damage vs. Fire!), 1 Steel (x0.5 damage vs. Fire!)."

    You left out some points there, buddy.

    On Arcanine: The Electric move can b
  25. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    1) As serious as you are, apparently. I'll make myself perfectly clear. The difference in power has very little to do with my judgment (and forty points isn't much, in my eyes). Typhlosion has a fast move that deals damage normally. That's the key point. Arcanine has a move that does twice that. That's fine. But they both possess the move. Typhlosion on all fours is comparatively smaller, and rather ferretlike. Evasive. Quick. Quick Attack. Arcanine is considerably larger on all fours. Extremespeed is fine, but I can see Arcanine having some small control problems on that front. Large objects moving at high speeds having trouble turning and all that.

    2) Supposedly? Once you show me a case where it doesn't hit, I'll accept that. Until then, it's a never-miss move in my eyes. Moves with 100% accuracy could miss under certain circumstances. Moves with no accuracy rate because they always hit are a different story.

    3) No, though some may disagree, I have never intentionally done as such. What massive advantage do I seem to be talking about, to you? No massive advantage, 10 points. Tiny. Miniscule. An advantage. There is no massive advantage in this match. Not on your side, not on the other side. As such, every little advantage counts. And, as far as I could find, Agility boost Speed by 2 points. That means it has to be used five times to bring him up to Typhlosion's speed. Six to exceed it. Little much to be doing repeatedly. Indeed, Arcanine is almost as fast as Typhlosion, and could exceed him during the match, but one move is not going to make him faster.

    4) Typhlosion is five feet tall, standing up, I believe. When running on all fours, it's considerably smaller and less of a target.

    5) I don't care about the Steel move, it's weak as anything. It doesn't just depend on the opponent's speed, it depends on the difference between their speed, as far as I could find. Practically useless from the start. Tackle is out from the beginning, don't think I don't know that. Typhlosion's attack is also hardly low. 267 is rather good, for a stat it doesn't specialize in. Double-edge I see as having little problem hitting Arcanine, so long as Typhlosion can keep up (and I believe he can). Where do you get the idea Rollout would be slow? With Typhlosion rolling around like crazy and building up momentum in a crater, I can't see it being anything less than a really nasty bunch of hits for Arcanine.

    You got argument.
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