Pokemon Trial Draft Now Open -- Winner: Specterace

Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by The_Chim, Feb 29, 2008.

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  1. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    1) First of all, there's NO WAY a creature that stands 5 feet tall is going to be "ferretlike" on all fours. That creature is going to have serious problems maneuvering due to having a body that long. In effect it's length makes it just as bad if not WORSE than Arcanine when it comes to turning and all that (think a limousine compared to an 4X4). At least Arcanine is compact in it's body size. Typhlosion's 5 foot long body on all fours ain't.

    However, you're also right in saying that Arcanine is a big creature, hindering it's maneuvering ability. So in effect, it comes down to whose "fast" attack can beat whose. Seeing how Arcanine's Pokedex entry says it can run 6,200 miles in a day, and how his quick strike move is called "Extremespeed", and how it can boost it's Speed by a ton at will with Agility (more on that in a bit), I think the evidence is quite clear that Arcanine's quick strike capabilities are far better than Typhlosion's.

    In addition, the power of the move IS critical. A difference of 40 points base damage IS a lot. It's the difference between a "blah" move (Icy Wind, Charge Beam, Karate Chop, Astonish, Confusion) and a "good" move (Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Sky Uppercut, Shadow Ball, Psychic). It's especially critical when you consider the stats of the two Pokemon in question: Arcanine with his 319 (!!!) Attack vs. Typhlosion's 255 Defense, and Typhlosion's 267 Attack to Arcanine's 259 Defense (Plus, there's the Intimidate factor lowering Typhlosion's attack by a lot, which I'll
  2. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Wow. Yeah, I'm not gonna have a judgment on this up tonight at all.

    Interestingly, as closely as the anime tries to stick to the game nowadays, I saw swift miss a couple days ago. It was pathetically slow.

    Oh yeah, and there was also an argument in my draft about whether charizard and dragonite could beat Flash using swift. Someone bought into that. But it wasn't me. Cause no way swift hits Flash. Unless he like, doesn't see it coming or something of that nature.
  3. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    ACtually, I'm pretty sure that Fly and Dig don't cause swift to miss (it's been a while, but that's what I remember)
  4. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, it's an energy attack. I still don't buy it hitting EVERYTHING but since we are using game mechanics, I guess it does for purposes of my judgment. Still is weak though.
  5. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    No doubt, but used in conjunction with its faster overall speed, it's something that can be done on the fly and chip away at Arcs HP.

    But rollout is the big difference here, especially in a crater, as it makes it easier to come back and keep attacking.
  6. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Someone clear up... I mean, I know since it's based on the games I have to take it as a rock attack but... HOW THE HELL IS ROLLING AT SOMEONE A ROCK MOVE!!???

    The type is "rock," not "rock n roll."

    The creators ain't nothin but hound dogs.
  7. Specterace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 4
    The point is, TYPHLOSION DOESN'T HAVE A HIGHER SPEED. All Arcanine needs is ONE Agility, and it gets it's Speed boosted 250+ points higher than Typhlosion. Typhlosion can't wear down Arcanine's HP if Arcanine's doing Extremespeed with speed over 250 points higher than it, simply because it just won't get the chance to pull off attacks like Swift before Arcanine starts rushing it to hell with Extremespeed.

    And how is Rollout going to be the "big difference" here if Typhlosion can't keep up with Arcanine to hit it with it?!? You DO need to hit the opponent with a move for it to do damage, you know. And for a move like Rollout, Typhlosion needs to get in close, meaning it has to be able to keep up with Arcanine. That's something that Arcanine's boosted Speed due to Agility won't let it do in ANY WAY. If you want to play wear-down games, all Arcanine needs to do against Rollout is just to dodge out of the way of Rollout, and hit some Flamethrowers and Heat Waves as Typhlosion rolls by. Won't do big damage in one shot, but it's a viable way to chip away and win the war of attrition hit by hit and dodge by dodge given that Arcanine will have the far superior Speed thanks to Agility.

    Of course, as I said, it won't even get that far. All Arcanine needs is a couple seconds to pull off an Agility and an Extremespeed. Then, do another Extremespeed, and then another. Rinse and repeat until Typhlosion faints. Or, if Typhlosion actually does go and open with Rollout, all Arcanine needs to do is dodge Rollout and hit it with Flamethrowers in the back, and do that over and over until Typhlosion gets frustrated and tries something else. And the moment it uncurls, it'll use Extremespeed to hit it hard, and then use it over and over until Typhlosion faints. And if Arcanine can use two more Agility moves to boost it's Speed to 400% above normal (the max), the battle will be that much quicker. And it's even surer when you consider that Arcanine's Intimidate will neuter Rollout's power since it lowers Typhlosion already low Attack by 33%, since Rollout being a Physical attack depends on Typhlosion's Attack Stat.

    Bottom line, it's not Rollout that's the difference here. It's Arcanine's abilities, it's stat advantages, it's Agility move, and it's Extremespeed move. Typhlosion has too much to overcome here. It's outclassed.

    Specterace
  8. Tyi-Maet_Nefer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2005
    star 6
    Well this argument is very mundane and NOT EXCITING AT ALL. Liven up, people.

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  9. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    Wait wait wait wait wait-- discussion on a match!? I don't agree with this one bit. I won't stand for this in my draft!
  10. Zizz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2005
    star 4
    My pokiman is better than your pokiman.
  11. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    If this is mundane and not exciting, I'd hate to see what you'd consider an interesting argument...
  12. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    So, not sure if the discussion is over yet. Didn't realize such a close match would illicit such strong opinions.
  13. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    I'd say it's over enough to safely make a judgment. At this point we're just going to keep going around in circles until somebody makes a decision.
  14. Tyi-Maet_Nefer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2005
    star 6
    They always have taglines. :p

    By the way, you quoted me, which means you saw my entire text!
  15. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Chim! Chim! They think this is argument!

    Guess they've not been in a comic draft.
  16. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    You have guessed correctly, though this is probably as close to argument as you can get in a Pokemon Draft.
  17. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    No, this is a good argument. Nothing that's not for money should have arguments nearly as long as some that have been in comics. Good grief.
  18. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    That's why I like to avoid that place like the plague Yak. Oh wait...

    *realizes he is a judge*

    Dammit.
  19. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, so, after a thorough review of facts, opinions, references, etc. here's what I've decided.

    I don't know where it's said that rollout is rolling rocks, the description I got from bulbapedia is just rolling at you. Anyway, a whole lot of pokedex talks about arcanine's great speed, and agility will just make it faster and more agile, I'll agree with specterace there. I dunno that it'll dodge swift, though. That and rollout could potentially give typhlosion the win. The problem there is that once rollout starts it's not gonna stop for a good long while, and I can't see Typhlosion doing it from the start since its pokedex description is all fire this and fire that. Rollout not being extremely accurate anyway, and having to hit at least twice to do significant damage with the type advantage, and with arcanine definitely going to have a significant advantage in both speed and lateral movement, I think Arcanine will be able to eventually get in close and finish this match off with its superior phsysical moveset and stats.
  20. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
    I just... I...never mind. Matches. I'm not too sure if I already called that location, I can't remember. If I did and it makes a HUGE difference to anyone then I can grab another one for this match.


    Championship Round
    Kyp's Kids (0) vs. The Rated R Pokestars (1)



    Let's move things around a bit...
    SIX

    Nidoking vs. Golem


    Location: Viridian Forest
  21. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    ...Uh, no tiebreaker vote? Okay.
  22. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah... That one kind of needed a tiebreaker...
  23. The_Chim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2001
    star 6
  24. Dom_Perignon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2006
    star 3
    Arcanine. It would be an good match, especially telling from the arguments that have gone on, but Arcanine is superior in the most important aspects, including speed and attack. He has superior speed to the point he can dodge, and enough attack that he can damage Typhlosion.

    Edit:
    And for the current match while I'm on..

    Nidoking vs. Golem

    Golem's earthquake spells disaster for Nidoking. The weakness it has plus Earthquake being deadly to anything that has weakness to it pretty much is all the reason I need to say...

    Winner: Golem
  25. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    Meh, Nidoking is quicker and will be able to get in a couple of doublekicks before Golem can attach, although not being the type hurts that move. But yeah, whatever, I'd probably vote the same way.
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