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MOD Policy on Sexist Comments

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Bazinga'd , Mar 10, 2015.

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  1. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    As the the new TOS makes clear, comments of a sexist nature are not tolerated anywhere in the JCF. Violators (and their offending posts) are subject to immediate moderator action.

    I want to clarify two things:

    (1) Sexism is gender neutral. That is it can be directed toward both men and women, although the vast majority of sexism is directed toward women.

    (2) Responses to sexist comments can be as equally offensive and abusive. If there is an offensive post or comment, direct a mod to offending comment rather than taking matters into your own hands. An offensive or abusive response to inappropriate comment is also subject to moderator action. In other words, two wrongs do not make a right.

    Please let me know if you have questions or concerns.
     
  2. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I have a question/concern;

    In making a conscious choice to adopt a rallying cry of sexist movements like Men's Rights Advocates ("Men can be victims too!"), did you intend to signal defiance against the policy and a general move to end systemic bias against women in all tiers of society?

    It was purposefully intended that such MRA nonsense not be given any of the weight it does not deserve but demands.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It makes sense that "you sexist ***hole" would be a TOS violation as much as "your opinion is cute, now run along, sweetheart, go buy some shoes and get your hair fixed so you'll feel better." I personally don't have a problem with something like "All those steroids must have disintegrated your brain, go watch a football game and drink beer or something" being viewed as sexist.

    But "you know, that comment comes across as really sexist" gives the person making the comment the chance to say "Oops, my bad, I didn't mean it that way/didn't mean to offend anyone" without bringing a moderator in to solve the problem.

    And if a thread is derailed by someone repeatedly and insistently making sexist comments, it seems that the blame should rest solely on the person making the sexist comments.
     
  4. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Agreed. Voicing that a post makes you uncomfortable should not be a problem. People should be allowed to speak their minds, in regards to that. If the offending party wants to argue about it, then that should be handled by a moderator. One can point out sexism (or racism, homophobia, etc) without being abusive, and doing so should not be discouraged.

    I've got to agree that the "men can be victims too" bit is pretty unnecessary. You kind of come across like you begrudgingly made this thread in order to shut somebody up, and not because you genuinely care about how people are treated--that's my honest perception.
     
  5. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    bla bla bla.
     
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  6. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I weary that many here seem to dismiss men can and are mistreated here as well.
     
  7. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Everyone is too easily offended imo. However I will agree that TSC was way out of line yesterday with personal insults and incoherent ranting.

    anakinfansince1983 I hate watching sports and im a guy. :p A good book is much preferred for my tastes am currently reading Tarkin by James Luceno.
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    The only part I disagree with is the "everyone is too easily offended." And I'm not sure it's relevant, because the exchange I posted earlier handles any offense, whether the offense happened "too easily" or not. It's the "I can offend you with my sexist post if I bloody well feel like it!" that becomes problematic.

    Now pass me a Shock Top and turn on Tar Heel basketball.
     
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  9. sarlaccsaurs-rex

    sarlaccsaurs-rex Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Hmm never had shock top before. :p

    Pass me a MGD and turn on the History Channel... oh wait they don't show anything real on history channel anymore.
     
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  10. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    I agree with what has been expressed above, that responses to sexist posts by users (or to homophobic posts, as was recently the case on Lit, or any such offensive or prejudicial posts) are important, and deference to mods in every case often doesn't work; there may be mere veiled implication that one wouldn't expect a mod to act on, and sometimes clarification in either direction results from "taking matters into [one's] own hands."

    I think that interpretation is a little uncharitable. There is a shocking degree to which terms like 'sexism' and 'feminism' are very literally not understood, e.g. not understanding sexism applies both ways (and note that Baz explicitly outlined that the vast majority is directed towards women here), or that feminism deals with equality of the sexes, and so on. So to have a stickied post explain to the insufficiently educated what exactly sexism means (for otherwise there's the risk that people make sexist posts without realising it's a violation of the policy) is important.

    What one's thoughts on the MRA are isn't particularly relevant; one must remember that simply because the National Socialists believed the sky is blue doesn't mean someone taking note of the fact that the sky is blue is socially signalling association with the former.
     
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    When the new TOS was finished, there was a link to it in a banner across all the forums. The new policy included gender-neutral "hate speech" wording. I'm not sure why there was a specific need to clarify in this forum that it's also not OK to trash/stereotype men. That's already part of the policy.

    As far as coming back at sexist posts: name-calling for any reason has been against the TOS. "Hey, that was a sexist post"? Not so much.
     
  12. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    But that isn't the wording at all. If anything, it's more highlighting that it's not OK to trash/stereotype women: "the vast majority of sexism is directed toward women." The gender-neutral aspect of the new policy does bear repeating in a forum which I've noted to consistently have more cases of sexist vitriol and arguments.

    Agreed.

    Users shouldn't have to wait for a mod to notice to combat offensive content; as you said above, blame lies with whoever was persistently making sexist interjections into otherwise harmonious discussion. I think clarifying what is meant by "an offensive or abusive response to inappropriate comment" is very important, as otherwise said moderator action is at risk of being inconsistent, as well as unfair due to lack of knowing whether policy has been infringed, and then of course there's the separate but equally important concern as to what manner or harshness responses to sexist content should be allowed to take anyway.
     
  13. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Why so hostile?
     
  14. Only-One Cannoli

    Only-One Cannoli Ex-Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Who is dismissing it? I think every poster prior to you specifically acknowledged it. The difference is that men are mistreated EXTREMELY less frequently than women as far as sexism goes, which is why we mostly address females. It's that whole can of worms of the "White people can experience racism too!" argument. Yeah. Sure. It happens. But men *as a whole* don't get to ride on the coat tails of what women have been consistently dragged through.

    Have some sensible reason, this **** doesn't fly in the real world and it shouldn't here either.


    edit: Also I find it absurd that the OP had to actually specify that men suffer from sexism. Wouldn't it have just been more to the point and in line with what we're trying to achieve by not specifying both genders like it's a competition? Specifying both just unravels the whole goal.
     
  15. Crystalia

    Crystalia Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Also I find it absurd that the OP had to actually specify that men suffer from sexism. Wouldn't it have just been more to the point and in line with what we're trying to achieve by not specifying both genders like it's a competition? Specifying both just unravels the whole goal.
    --------

    EH I dunno, thought it was a fair point to mention both, you might get somebody who thinks (for whatever reason) it's acceptable to say something akin to AFG's point of "All those steroids must have disintegrated your brain, go watch a football game and drink beer or something"

    in the point of fairness I thought it was ok to mention both sexes, and certainly not something to grumble at to the extent it seems to have done.
     
  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    It amazes me the extent of denial. Men are very much discriminated against here particularly regarding race and age. Utterly ridiculous.
     
  17. Only-One Cannoli

    Only-One Cannoli Ex-Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Are you trolling or are you unable to read that everyone is agreeing with you for some reason?
     
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    So report the racism and ageism as you see it, as both are included in the hate speech policy. I have called out both quite a few times myself.

    This forum is the only one that has felt the need to spell anything out and yes, make it a competition as to who is the bigger victim. Repeatedly pointing out that "men are victims too!"--especially when not a single person here has said that it's OK to make sexist comments towards men--just looks like an attempt to play "Hey look over there!" and maybe dismiss issues like the comments in the recently locked thread. In fact, I can't see any other reason for the repetition of that point.
     
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  19. Crystalia

    Crystalia Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2013
    I don't see it as a competition on who's the bigger victim as you say, but agree to disagree.
     
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  20. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    No, I'm not trolling just stating my experience around the boards via reading and posting. Both genders are victims, AFS it's not about amount or size. It shouldn't happen at all. The fact it's so pervasive in general is the issue.
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Sooooo...report racism and ageism as I said, and sexism against men, since the hate speech policy covers that?

    SLG is right, people are agreeing with you, unless it is a who-is-the-bigger-victim contest with you, I don't know what you're arguing.
     
  22. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Racism and ageism has no place anywhere in society, and is absolutely terrible. That having been said, this thread is specifically about sexism, which is rather uncommon (but not unheard of of course) towards men as opposed to sexism towards women - hence the primary focus on sexism towards women.
     
  23. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    no hostility. i just find people droning on about it boring.
     
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  24. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Locking thread. This discussion was previously had over in Comms. If you have a specific question or issue, PM me.
     
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