POLICY: VIPs and Titles

Discussion in 'Communications' started by DarthSapient, Sep 29, 2004.

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  1. JustinZ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2003
    star 2
    I agree that people like durbnpoisn and the icon artists who make tangible contributions to the site and its community should have the titles. Everyone else has mentioned that they should be recognized for their work (and I agree), but there's another practical reason for such people to have titles: so that they can be approached by members of the community.

    For example, I'm not much of an artist, and I wouldn't be able to make an icon good enough to be acceptable here, but if the icon artists were identifiable by their title, then, if I had a good idea for an icon, I could PM one and discuss it with him/her. Without the titles, it's harder to identify people who might be able to help.

    Justin
  2. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "For example, I'm not much of an artist, and I wouldn't be able to make an icon good enough to be acceptable here, but if the icon artists were identifiable by their title, then, if I had a good idea for an icon, I could PM one and discuss it with him/her. Without the titles, it's harder to identify people who might be able to help."

    Is it that hard to go to the Icon Artists thread (which, as of this posting, was two threads below this one in the Communications thread listing), and say "hey, here's my icon idea"?
  3. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    Then surely everyone who makes quality, insightful posts are also deserving of titles, no?

    And yet, they're hardly complaining about the lack of "respect" or whatever you want to call it.

    Everyone contributes to the JC in some way. Most just do it for fun, not for some expectation of reward. All this policy does is reaffirm the original policy regarding titles which never should have been deviated from in the first place.

    Amazing.
  4. darth_nemisis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2004
    star 6
    I am not getting this. So we don't get titles anymore?

    [face_skull]darth_nemisis[face_skull]
  5. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    Everyone contributes to the JC in some way. Most just do it for fun, not for some expectation of reward. All this policy does is reaffirm the original policy regarding titles which never should have been deviated from in the first place.

    I don't think it can be said any better than that. I make banners, and I've been doing it for years. If my title and status was stripped away, would I complain? Would I stop making banners? Hell no. I do it because I enjoy it and I like contributing to the look of this place. Just seeing them up on TFN is reward enough.
  6. durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Ahhh.... Now we're getting some discussion here.

    First off... I don't do anything around here for hopes of reward. That's the wrong reason to do any sort of artwork, I think. I did the database because I thought it would be spiffy. Plus it was a good challenge. It turns out that it's been very well recieved. Which, for me, is the biggest complement I can imagine.

    But still, to be recognized by the staff as a contributer to the site, and the community, is still nice. To have it taken away because a completely unrelated group have ruined it, seems silly.

    So, please don't lump me or the other artists around here in the the category of "glory mongers". It's not like that.
  7. rogue_09 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 4
    So someone who's put in countless hours of his own time to make a working interactive database that greatly benefits those involved with Fan Films gets no recognition? It's a line of text, what do you people care if it's there or not? I know you can make the same arguement to have it removed, but what's the harm in leaving it?

    Your point for removing titles is to make said titles more of a reward for those who have earned it. I'd say doing what durbnpoisn did deserves a title and more. People who actually make a contribution to this community deserve some recognition. I know most people don't visit the Fan Films board, so you won't care, but those of us that do greatly appreciate what he's done. And you say you'll thank people more publically, but many of the Fan Films posters don't check the main boards and JCC mods certainly don't visit Fan Films at all. So that's pointless.

    durbnpoisn has never done anything for glory or reward, but for the sake of this place, and you're just slapping him in the face. No matter what you say, it sure looks like you're out to undermine the hard work of others. Take away pointless titles all you want, but don't screw over those that actually make this place better.
  8. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    So, please don't lump me or the other artists around here in the the category of "glory mongers". It's not like that.

    Then it shouldn't bother you that your title was removed, right?

    So someone who's put in countless hours of his own time to make a working interactive database that greatly benefits those involved with Fan Films gets no recognition? It's a line of text, what do you people care if it's there or not? I know you can make the same arguement to have it removed, but what's the harm in leaving it?

    The point of removing it is consistency. The title issue has been a slippery slope since zerosleep added it and it never should have gotten this far. This is just a correction and reaffirmation of the original policy.

    Your point for removing titles is to make said titles more of a reward for those who have earned it.

    No, the point is to remove excessive titles and keep them strictly informative based on the original policy.

    People who actually make a contribution to this community deserve some recognition.

    As I said previously, everyone contributes in some way. The problem then arises of what is deserving of a title. This has cleared that up. Just because you do something, doesn't mean you are automatically going to get a title. Hopefully you'll still continue to contribute because you do so out of wanting to contribute, not because of some silly internet title.

    Take away pointless titles all you want, but don't screw over those that actually make this place better.

    Ah, and here we get to the fun. What you see as pointless, others see as well-earned and vice versa. Should everyone then be given titles just because? Or should there be set limits to keep things from getting out of hand (again)? The latter makes the most sense.

    Mods, can I have the title of "MS Spokesman"?

    Amazing.
  9. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "Mods, can I have the title of "MS Spokesman"?"

    Like everyone else, you are free to add your own title to your signature. :)
  10. rogue_09 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 4
    Set limits and policies, I'm all for it. But I think something like durb's Database should be given consideration by the mods since it is one major thing, rather than a mass contribution like icons and such.
  11. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Set limits and policies, I'm all for it. But I think something like durb's Database should be given consideration by the mods since it is one major thing, rather than a mass contribution like icons and such.

    The problem is that everyone thinks that their special case (or that of their friend) should be given special consideration.

    What we did is set some very specific criteria for who should have VIP status (first of all). From that, we developed the two categories mentioned in the first post here. At that point, we held a poll in the MS for whether we should have any titles given other than the minimal criteria we listed above. The overwhelming majority said no.

    This isn't a decision that we make lightly. We had a long discussion on the matter.

    Kimball Kinnison
  12. OBIX1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2002
    star 6
    I was a little supprised to see my title go. But,it's not that big of deal to me.I'll still continue to make icons when I can anyway. :)
  13. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    Looking at the criteria listed for who gets VIP status and such, it still isn't clear to me why users such as Otis Frampton still have their VIP status and such.



    And anyways, as one of the icon & banner makers here on the JC, it doesn't matter to me if I am recognized for my work. Actually, I'm even more geared now than ever to make more graphics for TFN and the JC. It would be nice if a mod or staff member could please contact me about what needs some livening up around the site and forums. I have all this extra time and I realize that I could be doing more with it for the place.

    Anyways, thanks guys for the recognition, it was fun.

    jacemathem
    ecovingt@ucsd.edu
  14. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "Looking at the criteria listed for who gets VIP status and such, it still isn't clear to me why users such as Otis Frampton still have their VIP status and such."

    Otis is an ex-mod, and probably should have a title stating that.
  15. jacemathem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 5
    Otis is an ex-mod, and probably should have a title stating that.

    Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad to see that THDArtist finally got VIP and titles for his upcoming work. ;)
  16. Sara_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 7
    Banner makers having VIP status...

    That's fine, if they have that job every single day. I don't think making one banner, once a year, entitles them to permanat user colors, even if they say they are apart of a certain elite group.

    Icon makers did much more work, steadily, to earn their titles, then any banner maker has done on this site to earn permanat VIP status.

    And I'm not making this arguement for VIP status for myself, seeing as I'm in no position to ever have them at this point in time, or ever have been, so please don't insult my intelligence that way.

    There's two cases in Fan Fiction where they've only created one banner, months ago, and they have VIP status that has never been taken away.

    What makes banner creator's so special above anyone else is my question. [face_plain]
  17. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    The first post explicitly states that, from now on, banner makers will only have VIP status for a maximum of a month.

    "Icon makers did much more work, steadily, to earn their titles, then any banner maker has done on this site to earn permanat VIP status."

    I doubt that's the case 100% of the time. Also, there are people who put much more work than either of those groups, simply by working on intelligent posts. Yet, they don't get titles or colors. Where should the line be drawn?

    "The problem is that everyone thinks that their special case (or that of their friend) should be given special consideration."

    *cough* EUC Chancellor *cough*
  18. BaronFel88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 7
    I doubt that's the case 100% of the time. Also, there are people who put much more work than either of those groups, simply by working on intelligent posts. Yet, they don't get titles or colors. Where should the line be drawn?

    I've seen this posted countless times, and I have to know: what is an 'intelligent' post? A memorable one-liner or witty anecdote? Or contributions in to the JC somehow?
  19. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "I've seen this posted countless times, and I have to know: what is an 'intelligent' post? A memorable one-liner or witty anecdote? Or contributions in to the JC somehow?"

    All of the above. Anything that 'contributes' to the boards, which seems to be the argument that some people are using for why certain groups should still have titles. The point is that most members here 'contribute' in a positive manner, in one form or another, and it would be a waste of time to give them titles stating so.

    You should contribute because you want to, not because you want any sort of recognition.
  20. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    I've seen this posted countless times, and I have to know: what is an 'intelligent' post? A memorable one-liner or witty anecdote? Or contributions in to the JC somehow?

    That's the point of the argument. There is no set answer. A line has to be drawn somewhere and that line has been drawn. It was drawn two years ago when the title feature was first introduced, but before long that line was blurred. Now we're right back where we started and where we should have stayed.

    Amazing.
  21. DarthArjuna Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    I'm of the mind that titles should not be for the elite. Neither do I think they should be for everybody; maybe a system of checks and balances to keep titles from getting out of control, like three mods approving it, would be in irder. I think of VIP colors as the elite status signifiers (certainly, keep VIP colors to a minimum); titles should probably be given out a little more freely.
  22. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    That's fine, if they have that job every single day. I don't think making one banner, once a year, entitles them to permanat user colors, even if they say they are apart of a certain elite group.

    Icon makers did much more work, steadily, to earn their titles, then any banner maker has done on this site to earn permanat VIP status.


    I'm sorry, but having done both in my time here, I know for a fact that making a good banner takes A LOT more time than making a set of icons. But think whatever you want to.

    And to that affect, there are those of us banner makers that consistantly contribute new banners on a regular basis, which is why we were given the "elite" title.
  23. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I'm of the mind that titles should not be for the elite. Neither do I think they should be for everybody; maybe a system of checks and balances to keep titles from getting out of control, like three mods approving it, would be in irder. I think of VIP colors as the elite status signifiers (certainly, keep VIP colors to a minimum); titles should probably be given out a little more freely.

    We do have a system of checks and balances. It is called set criteria. Any exceptions to the above criteria requires the approval of the MS as a whole or the direction of the Head Admin/owners.

    Kimball Kinnison
  24. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    I just made like 8 icons last week, just to try it out. I even submitted them. They took like 5-10 minutes each. If that. Banners are much more intricate and complicated and are much higher profile. Also, there is a higher demand for banners.

    As far as the Fan Film guy's situation goes, he should be recognized for his contribution, but why can't that just be crediting him on the database and stuff like that? It's not like your work is no longer appreciated just because your title was taken away.
  25. DarthArjuna Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    I meant a system where special cases would be considered. Durb, for example, is a special case, deserving of the title. If one mod thought that he was deserving, he could bring it up for discussion. Since I don't know the inner workings of the mod world, I don't know how that system would work, but something like that.
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