POLICY: VIPs and Titles

Discussion in 'Communications' started by DarthSapient, Sep 29, 2004.

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  1. -Phi- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 3
    Another durbnpoisn supporter here. DarthSapient defined TF.N staff as "those folks who work on www.theforce.net and all the associated web pages."

    The FanFilms database is definately associated with the TF.N FanFilms page, as evidenced by the direct link to it. No other sites are acknowledged in such an official way by the FanFilms section. By this definition could not durbnpoisn be considered an honourary staff member?

    Just my two credits...
  2. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I meant a system where special cases would be considered. Durb, for example, is a special case, deserving of the title. If one mod thought that he was deserving, he could bring it up for discussion. Since I don't know the inner workings of the mod world, I don't know how that system would work, but something like that.

    It's very simple. If you believe that there is something worthy of a VIPship, contact a moderator to have it brought up in the MS. We would discuss the issue and decide. That's exactly how it is handled for VIPships related to games.

    However, don't try to campaign for it or anything like that. Just as with the policy on giving out old usernames, if such things become more hassle than they are worth, we may decide to somply restrict it even more (i.e. no exceptions whatsoever).

    Now, you may think that one user or another is deserving of a title, but at this point, we have set the criteria for it. Give us some time to stabilize the situation (bring everyone into conformance with the current criteria) before you start demanding special cases.

    The FanFilms database is definately associated with the TF.N FanFilms page, as evidenced by the direct link to it. No other sites are acknowledged in such an official way by the FanFilms section. By this definition could not durbnpoisn be considered an honourary staff member?

    That is something that you would have to take up with Josh Griffin and/or Philip Wise. The only TFN staff members that we recognize with VIPship are those who have an official staff position as directed by the owners.

    Kimball Kinnison
  3. SecondBest Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    star 6
    I probably should have brought this up before, but since we are on the discussion on titles, can someone remove mine? I won the game like 3 months ago. :p
  4. FigChrystie Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2004
    star 4
    That is something that you would have to take up with Josh Griffin and/or Philip Wise. The only TFN staff members that we recognize with VIPship are those who have an official staff position as directed by the owners.

    Am I wrong to assume that Jeff Yankey (aka Azeem), titled head-honcho of Fanfilms.com, would be an equal to Phil Wise or Josh Griffin in this case? Is not having the database formally, permanently linked on the front page of fanfilms.com main not enough to show a little credit? I know that to the big bad Comms board the Fanfilms section is a small little crack in the wall of the JC, but it has it's share of members, folks. It's a pain in the ass to get temporarily linked on the news page of FF.C...I think the work he put into it deserves some credit.
  5. DarthArjuna Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Not VIPship, with colors and such. I agree that those should be few and far between, lest our forums turn into a dead-on copy of some kid's fingerpainting. I just want to make it clear that I'm pushing more for titles.

    If it makes any difference, I'm asking my FF CR to get rid of mine It's worthless,a nd out-of-date.
  6. MaxVeers TFN FanFilms Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    Fig, it's a complicated situation, but in this case Philip or Josh are the appropriate guys to talk to.

    While I voted against the decision to remove titles, I feel like most of us in the Fan Films forum already know of Durb's contributions. It's a relatively close-knit community.
  7. FigChrystie Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2004
    star 4
    Alas, I'm vanquished.

    I'll go back to being a peon, hold my calls. :)


    EDIT: Yeah, the people who have been around for a while do. I've been there for...wow, almost two years now...and Durb has to work to get his respect from the folks (which is how it should be, for people who don't have respect) but he's proven himself time and time again to be one of the, if not the, most helpful forumers there. I know that's not worth a title, but...as Red once said, "Maybe I just miss my friend."

    Well. That's the sentiment.

    Kinda.

    Whatever. I'm going back to my peon-dom.
  8. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Am I wrong to assume that Jeff Yankey (aka Azeem), titled head-honcho of Fanfilms.com, would be an equal to Phil Wise or Josh Griffin in this case? Is not having the database formally, permanently linked on the front page of fanfilms.com main not enough to show a little credit? I know that to the big bad Comms board the Fanfilms section is a small little crack in the wall of the JC, but it has it's share of members, folks. It's a pain in the ass to get temporarily linked on the news page of FF.C...I think the work he put into it deserves some credit.

    Azeem is a member of TFN staff, as well as a moderator. Even if a users' site is linked to by a part of TFN, they are not members of the staff until invited by the owners. Azeem is not one of the owners. He is simply the head of one of the departments of TFN.

    Not VIPship, with colors and such. I agree that those should be few and far between, lest our forums turn into a dead-on copy of some kid's fingerpainting. I just want to make it clear that I'm pushing more for titles.

    The decision of the MS as a whole was that titles should only be used to explain the reason for VIPship. As I said, there was an overwhelming majority (24 to 10). As such, the question of more titles is decided. Titles will not be given out without VIPship.

    Kimball Kinnison
  9. Padawan_John Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 4
    Okay, I have a straightforward question here: What are the exact qualifications for VIP status? I don't want any murky, political-type answers. Give it to me straight.

    EDIT: Nevermind. Found it myself.

    Odd, though, that those who oppose giving out titles still have titles themselves. Hmmm. :p
  10. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Odd, though, that those who oppose giving out titles still have titles themselves. Hmmm.

    I know you said this in jest, but it is very simple. Titles are used to explain why a person holds VIP or higher status.

    Kimball Kinnison
  11. milney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2003
    star 5
    Is Stidarious, Newbie Adoptions Co-ordinator, going to retain his title, seeing as his position doesn't have VIP-ship attached?

    EDIT: clarity & spelling
  12. Padawan_John Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 4
    Well, cool. Next question: What exactly would one have to do to become a mod? Is there a definative application process?
  13. milney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2003
    star 5
    Padawan_John, there's no 'application process' you can go through to become a mod. This is my understanding of the process:

    1. A need for a mod is identified.
    2. Members of the modsquad submit names of candidates they think would do a good job. Names submitted to mods by users are also put forward.
    3. These names are discussed by the mod-squad, with particular weight given to the mods of the relevant forum (eg. YJCC or 3SA)
    4. The top ten or so contenders are chosen and a poll is created for voting.
    5. After the poll has closed, the winner is PM-ed with an offer of modship. If they accept, both the discussion thread and poll are deleted and the person is promoted. If they decline, from memory, it is offered to the next person with the most votes.
  14. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    The decision of the MS as a whole was that titles should only be used to explain the reason for VIPship. As I said, there was an overwhelming majority (24 to 10). As such, the question of more titles is decided. Titles will not be given out without VIPship.

    Frankly, I still don't see why 24 individuals would want to fix what isn't broken. A one-line title doesn't hurt anyone, and as all big corporations know, things that make your people happy and don't even cost you a cent are good. Does it make your monitor blow up if you have to look at a few titles that say "icon artist" or whatnot? Does it increase the amount of time it takes to load a page, or significantly clutter the screen, or generate confusion about who's a mod and who isn't?

    If I'd heard a logical argument for why it makes sense to take titles away from people who like them and (possibly) deserve them, I'd shut up already, but I've heard none. But I think I've expressed my view on this before and not managed to achieve anything with my blabbering, so I'm wasting my time, I guess. *sigh* I accept defeat.
  15. MaxVeers TFN FanFilms Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    I don't think offering an opposing viewpoint is ever a waste of time.
  16. gabe Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    58 3SA banners, and this is the thanks I get? [face_plain]





    ...just kidding, couldn't care less about the e-status and whatnot, was always in it for the fun. I'll miss being able to create shabby polls in cencus though. :p
  17. Jedi_Humaira_Blaine Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2003
    star 5
    I probably should have brought this up before, but since we are on the discussion on titles, can someone remove mine? I won the game like 3 months ago.

    Sorry SecondBest, that was an oopsie on my part. [face_blush] Were you refering to the WNU Mole game? I was wondering if I had missed something. :p


    And Sape, nice post...detailed and well explained. :cool:
  18. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    and JCC mods certainly don't visit Fan Films at all

    I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly do visit. I started visiting about a year and a half ago when a bunch of my friends were extras in Revelations.

    If I'd heard a logical argument for why it makes sense to take titles away from people who like them and (possibly) deserve them

    I do feel the strongest reason is that the title situation has got out of hand. They are effectively meaningless, and the same goes for VIP status. Long term VIP status was devaluing the work done (for example) of EU authors, and the TFn Editors and staff.

    It's nice to see so many artists posting here saying that it makes no difference to them because they enjoy making their icon and banner submissions.
  19. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    [image=http://home.graffiti.net/darthattorney/support.jpg]
  20. durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Wow. I am totally blown away by the reaction to all of this. I absolutely appreciate the support from so many of you.

    Frankly, I still don't see why 24 individuals would want to fix what isn't broken. A one-line title doesn't hurt anyone, and as all big corporations know, things that make your people happy and don't even cost you a cent are good. Does it make your monitor blow up if you have to look at a few titles that say "icon artist" or whatnot? Does it increase the amount of time it takes to load a page, or significantly clutter the screen, or generate confusion about who's a mod and who isn't?

    I think that that is probably one of the clearest statements made about this. It certainly outlines why I feel the way I do.

    It seems pretty clear to me that the discussion that was had did not include enough people to make a decision that everyone would be happy with. I realize that this place is not a democracy, per se. But, it does make sense to listen to what the people in the community have to say.

    So, where does this stand now? Has this discussion made any difference?
  21. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    It seems pretty clear to me that the discussion that was had did not include enough people to make a decision that everyone would be happy with. I realize that this place is not a democracy, per se. But, it does make sense to listen to what the people in the community have to say.

    Hold on a moment. If we had made the opposite decision, don't you think that the people on the other side of the issue would be speaking out on it? Just because our final decision does not match what you wanted does not mean that we did not listen. Listening to a person's advice is not he same as following it.

    This wasn't just some spontaneous thing. We've been working on it for weeks and discussing every facet of it, both in MS as well as discussion here in Comms. In the end, we jointly made the decision that we felt was best for the boards as a whole. No matter how we decided, someone would be unhappy with it (that is a virtual certainty considering the size of the boards).

    We have been making a real effort to simplify the administration of these boards and reduce the number of inconsistencies in how we handle things. As part of that, we are trying to outline clear standards and criteria for as many different matters as we can. This is one of those areas that has needed simplification for quite some time.

    Kimball Kinnison
  22. durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Hold on a moment. If we had made the opposite decision, don't you think that the people on the other side of the issue would be speaking out on it?

    Honeslty, judging from what's been said here, those people are the minority. It just so happens they were the ones with the power to vote.


    You guys are making this sound like it's such a huge, big problem for people to have titles. I just don't understand that at all. Not to the extent that you had weeks worth of conversations about it.

    And after all, your decision was to illiminate recognition based on community input, but keep recognition based on one's place of employment. How does that benefit the site?
  23. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Can I ask why you didn't bring this up in the past month or so that we've been openly discussing it in Comms ?
  24. durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I had no idea that the discussion was going on. I didn't find out about it until MaxVeers PM'd me to let me know what had happened.

    As a regular user, I never though it my place to be poking around in the administrators forum. The only reason I'm here now is that a decision was made that directly effects me and a number of other users.

    Believe me, if I had known this discussion had been going on for weeks, I would have chimed in earlier.
  25. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Honeslty, judging from what's been said here, those people are the minority. It just so happens they were the ones with the power to vote.

    Can you judge the decision by just what has been said in this thread? What about this thread, where it has been discussed quite a bit here in Comms? What about where the participants in Big Brother also sounded off on the matter?

    You guys are making this sound like it's such a huge, big problem for people to have titles. I just don't understand that at all. Not to the extent that you had weeks worth of conversations about it.

    So, because you don't understand how it was a problem, it must not have been one? In this thread alone, you have seen many people, mostly normal users, say that the titles had gotten out of hand. You can see many similar comments in the threads I linked to above. It took a while because we took the time to evaluate our decision at every step of the process, trying to find what we felt would be best for the boards. I'm sorry that you disagree with our decision, but we still stand by it.

    And after all, your decision was to illiminate recognition based on community input, but keep recognition based on one's place of employment. How does that benefit the site?

    The only people that we recognize due to their "place of employment" are those who are staff members of TFN administration (to aid in identifying people to submit possible articles or information to), former moderators (about the only form of payment a mod receives) and as an enticement to persons directly involved with LucasFilm and its affiliates. This last one is actually a major draw to this site for many people. Last I checked, we had more of the authors, artists, and related people posting here than at any other Star Wars site, including the official one.

    Kimball Kinnison
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