Political Correctness & Multiculturalism: Evil's tools and the end of England

I agree with you for the most part. Our elections get ridiculous, with one side accusing the other side of being "un-American," and/or voicing dissent against the current administration is "un-American." (Although right now people try to accuse the administration itself of being "un-American." ) I listened to CBC radio on satellite during the '08 elections, and the Canadian broadcasters were laughing at us. They said that parties don't accuse each other of being "un-Canadian" there.

Flag pole: we don't fly the American flag outside our house except on national holidays. You're right, our neighbors know that we're Americans.

Pledge of allegiance: my son's school does this every morning and I'm not sure why, maybe to teach it to the kids. I don't object to it but I wouldn't object to not doing it either.

Arresting people who threaten the President: Yes, I fully support this. You don't get arrested for threatening the Prime Minister but how many of your Prime Ministers have been assassinated in the past 150 years? We've had four Presidents murdered during that time. We also have a lot more guns and gun-happy people than you all do. (This is another debate, but I'm not anti-gun, I just wish there were better ways to keep crazy people from getting them. Outlawing them doesn't work, because they still exist in this country whether they are legal or not.)

Obama can't even go watch his daughter play soccer or get a hamburger without a 15-car security entourage. Yes, he chose to be President, but still, if his life is in such danger that he needs that much security at all times, nobody should be able to even make a joke about killing him.

I support the military 100 percent, even if I don't like the war they are fighting at the time. That isn't their fault, it's the fault of the administration that gave the order.

Where's that Theodore Roosevelt quote? Dissent is the highest form of patriotism? In the USA we are the government, and we should have the right to criticize it, all the way to the ballot box if necessary.

 

Trouble with that theory is that the parents have a knack of being a strong influence and even brainwashing their kids when the parents have fanatical leanings. That in turn is passed down to the grandchildren and so on. The bottom video in my original post points out that a lot of areas of England are being ghettoised, where immigrants who don?t want to fit in create whole isolated communities where they don?t need to use any Western ways and language whatsoever in order to get by. This makes the chances of radicalisation of generation after generation even more likely.

See now, 'knack of having a strong influence'... that's a sort of inexact notion, there.

Brainwashing is a pretty exact thing. Parents may have strong influences, but it takes a lot to actually BRAINWASH someone, inasmuch as we actually know brainwashing exists.

The chances of radicalization generation after generation becomes LESS, not more. Extremely, extremely less. It takes some really dedicated parentage to make sure your child who has no reason to hate his white neighbor hates his white neighbor.

So, here's the thing about 'ghettoized' communities. Why isn't that a problem on this side of the pond? Oh, immigrants move to where there's more of thier sort around, sure. But radicalization of the population around here is much less of a problem. By and large extremist groups have significant problems recruiting out of the Americas. It happens, but for the proportions in which it happens... it's a lot less.

It would seem to me this has a lot to do with Europe's class problems continuing to bite it. Social mobility's always been a problem in Europe compared to the Americas, and this is part of that. Muslims, like a lot of working class whites, have a lot more problems getting ahead. They're more likely to die in the same class they were born into. Many resent this, and so extremism beckons because extremism, for them, is there.

Like I said, take a trip to Toronto some time. Take a look at the massive numbers of immigrants, and then notice how a lot of the younger ones are speaking perfect english. Notice how many of the young Chinese and Indian girls sound like valley girls, and the boys sound like skaterz.

The best way to combat extremism? Build a place where the kids can have fun.

 

In most cases I've seen, kids are more likely to rebel against parents who try to force a veiwpoint on them than be converted by it.

Also, if current UK society has taught us anything, it's that most parents currently don't have astrong influence on their kids. If they did, their kids wouldn't be running around in gangs stabbing each other and generally being semi-literate and anti-social.

 

No. Luckily Pat Robertson showed up right at the start of the first video, so I knew better than to waste my time. I got about half-a-minute into the second video before the CBN logo popped onto the screen, making it very clear that any insight I might glean from watching would be entirely unintentional and probably contrary to the producer's intent.

I didn't bother trying with the others. You'd have a better chance of me taking you seriously with Fox News videos, than that garbage...

 

I'm going to assume you're talking about my reply there about the schools =) as for the medical care question. The NHS is not 'bleeding red' because of the massive use of facilities by 'illegals'. I'm not all that up-to-date on the NHS as such - I'm not British - but I'm going to throw a wild idea in here: the ageing British population coupled with the rather un-healthy western lifestyle is going to make it inevitable that medical care will be more costely. We've never had such a large geriatric population in the Western World as now, and old people cost money. :0

As for, why should we let illegals use it? Maybe because they are human first and their residential status should really be secondary when it comes to medical matters? This is a question about what you value from a society.

Actually, social mobility has been higher in Europe than in the Americas for some time now - although I'm not sure about post-Thatcher UK - . I'm not saying the class problem isn't there, I agree with the analysis, but the reason that the radicalisation in the Americas is less, has more to do with the type of immigration the Americas gets from the Middle East compared with the social-make up of the European muslim population. Also, the shear volume of the immigration is different.

In the Americas you can see the exact same problems being exhibited in Latino immigration populations - and black populations, I should add - only that they don't take refuge in religious inspired extremism, but you get gang problems. We shouldn't be overstating the amount of 'extremist' youths by the way, because they are rather few. They get a disproportionate amount of attention, but it's not as if I run into these all the time. Most of the problematic kids are problematic in a violent gang like way by the way, and not religiously connected. We just associate them with Islam for some reason, while you wouldn't associate a Mexican with Catholicism in the same way.

P.S.

Come to Brussels and you'll notice the massive amount of

 

The NHS is only in the red because the administration at the highest level is not efficient. If the management was better organised or changed the NHS would work fine.

Treating foreigners and immigrants is a difficult problem though. We pay taxes to get NHS treatment, yet those who don't can still get treatment for free. This annoys a lot of people.
However, healthcare is something that should be provided to anyone for nothing, it should be an entitlement and a right.

I disagree with systems where only those who can pay get treated and those who do not get cast aside like they don't matter. Such a system puts a value on human life and says certain people are worth more than others. That is not morally acceptable.

 

And no offense to the USA, but they take patriotism too far IMO. Do you have to have a flag pole flying the national flag outside your house when you live in that country? Every American citizen living alongside you should already know that you live there.

LOL You've got to remember, our test scores are around the same as Estonia's. Actually, we tie with Eastern European countries on a lot of things. That's why Bush didn't like "old" Europe. LOL

But seriously, I think it's because Americans have learned to commercialize patriotism. My favorite is the kevlar magnets that say "support the troops". If you really want to support the troops, stop driving up the price of kevlar! Also, country music. Do I need to hear about a boot up the pants?

Do you really need to get up in the morning and recite a pledge of allegence?

Only schoolchildren do this, but they're just the most vulnerable minds.

Arresting people for threatening the President? Even for a joke? That seems extreme to me. I'd never get arrested here for threatening the Prime Minister.

Oddly enough, nobody got arrested for threatening Clinton, to my knowledge. And a lot of them did.

 

My point wasn't that illegals should be refused medical treatment and be cast out on the streets to die. Yes, of course they should be treated. However, as I mentioned, if I needed medical care in France, I would have at least been billed for it if not made to pay up front. The French citizen pays taxes for his or her health care system, as my husband and I pay a premium for health insurance in the US. Ideally health care would be "free," but it isn't. Doctors' fees, nurses' fees, hospital facilities, equipment, medicine, etc. cost money. So who pays for it? And what is the ideal way to handle health care treatment for visitors to a country? Let them use the facilities and then bill them later? This would be my vote, but then how does one collect? I'm not a fan of denying treatment to anyone but costs have to be covered. We have 12 million illegal immigrants in the US, how do we cover those costs?

My ideal for a health care system within a country is that basic health care--primary care physician visits, basic hospitalization, ER visits--should be covered via taxes, and the citizen could buy supplemental coverage for anything else (specialist visits, prescriptions, etc.) or pay out of pocket. How a country should handle health care for visitors is another question, which I don't have a good answer for.

I'm pretty sure, however, that Canadian citizens would not be too keen on paying for health care for Detroit residents who crossed over to Windsor in order to avoid paying for health care in the US.

 

Nobody gets arrested (to my knowledge) for threatening the President, even in jest, but they do get investigated if that 'joke' gets out. Mainly because we've had a few assassinations and everyone making a threat needs to be checked out to see if they're serious.

 

"Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism" or variants of that is only about 40 years old, if you go by what can be cited. So doesn't go back to Roosevelt, or more often mentioned, Jefferson.

Though on the topic, Theodore Roosevelt did say such things as "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism?. The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities."
and
"In the first place we should insist that the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equity with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming an American and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

(To the best I can check, those are indeed statements by Roosevelt, the latter verified by Snopes)


And I'd point out that I don't know anyone that flies an American flag at their house (I believe I used to know of a family that did) and I didn't say the pledge of allegiance for the last handful of years of school. It got said, just not by me.

 

Those quotes sound entirely appropriate for a man who would not tolerate European interference in this hemisphere, but saw no problem with the United States interfering in exactly the same way.

The only members of my family who fly the American flag are currently enlisted or are retired from the military.

 

So if you decide to live in America you have to be American and only fly the American flag?

What if you're French and want to show support for your home nation during sporting events? Is that forbidden becuase once you become a citizen you can only support America?

 

Don't look now but Teddy was mirroring exactly what I've been saying all along. He must've been a racist too!

 

Well...it was generally considered a-okay to be racist in Teddy's time. Soo....yeah...

 

WIKI: President Woodrow Wilson regarded "hyphenated Americans" with suspicion, saying, "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."

You've had lots of "racist" presidents then, aye?

 

You really know nothing about American history, do you?

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This was in 1928. You would never see this happening now. Or even in this great of numbers.

 

How's that anything to do with what they were saying? Is it that Americans in those days were tough talking patriots and now have become like us, weak kneed sycophants toward every angry Third Worlder that comes along?

 

Are you suggesting that the KKK are tough talk patriots and that everyone needs to go back to being like them?

And did you also just insinuate that people from every other culture are all "Third Worlders"? You know, we're all ****ing third worlders. We're on the third ***damn world from the sun!

 

Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson were members of the KKK???

And obviously you don't know what things are like over here, us bending knee to every angry sand peasant that comes along. Shout threats at us? Okay, here's me daughter Mr. Muslim! Bomb us? Yes sir, we'll build you another mosque! You know we're even scared to wave our own ******* flag just in case it upsets one of them! That is unless it's the ****** World Cup.

 

Wow, so much intellectual dishonesty on your part. FIDo showed pictures of KKK rallies and you QUOTED that and said that those rallies showed that Americans were tough patriots back then. I ASKED you if you were suggesting that those KKK rallies meant the KKK were tough patriots.

WHAT THE **** DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH TEDDY ROOSEVELT AND WOODROW WILSON? EXPLAIN, NOW!


Also, "sand peasant?" Are you gonna use racial slurs and then expect me to not call you racist?

 

I wasn't the one who brought the KKK into this.

By "sand peasant" I mean THESE savages. But who's the more racist? I guess someone like you would say me, because people of your kind would turn a blind eye to their rantings. I think it's ironic that the apologists turn a blind eye because they believe they can't help it, it's just a part of their...culture.

 

Woodrow Wilson also said of Birth Of A Nation, a film that glorifies the KKK and portrays them as the heroic defenders of the old South, that "My only regret is that it is all so terribly true."

So yeah, I'd say he was pretty racist.

 

In that case I apologise. I didn't know he said that. I was referring on a national level rather than about slavery.

 

Something of an exaggeration, BRITAIN has always been a haven for liberty and refugees, it's perhaps one of our strengths rather than a weakness

 

I was in Frankfurt the other day. A German of Turkish descent had just scored the winning goal in the soccer World Cup for Germany. Middle of the night, I entered the hotel and congratulated the hotel owner with their victory. He said it doesn't mean anything anymore; "What's a German team with people who aren't German? It's just business."

The next day I spoke to a Frankfurter couple. I wanted to talk soccer. They wanted to talk Turks. They said the Turks were flooding Frankfurt. The woman told me that her boss is a Turk. "But what's wrong with that?", I said. "He's a Turk!", she said, astonished that she had to spell it out.

And the anti-islam/anti-immigration party in my own country has just won its biggest victory.

It seems the changes are getting to people...

EDIT:

Brilliant.