Full Series Politics: Kamino and the Sith

I don't think we really need much of the gap filling stories they are giving us on this Series but that does not stop them from doing it and making something entertaining for us fans as a bonus. Getting a little back story on Order 66 would be much, much more interesting than some of the poisoned tea crap they have done IMO.

 

the less I know about Order 69 the better.

 

Sorta like Obi Wan in the Jedi Temple referring to Palpatine as "The Emperor" in a natural, almost off-hand fashion as if that had been the man's title for 20 years when in reality he'd actually been "Emperor" for like...20 minutes? If he'd assumed the title yet at all. And Obi Wan wasn't even there when Palpatine declared an end to the Republic in the Senate.

 

My motto is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

yeah even more odd is Obi-Wan calling him chancellor later on.... ok maybe Obi realised plans of the sith and recognised palpatine- palpatine is sith= he has emergency powers = he makes himself emperor... there have been sith emperors before... still it's interesting error in the film and Palpy is not yet emperor at the time- he should've said chancellor or Sidious not Emperor.....

 

But he heard this on the security recordings: Now, Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire.

So it's not actually a mistake.

 

I always wondered why Palpatine directly called Commander Cody and was all like "Commander Cody the time has come, execute blah blah blah" yet for all the other clones it was a pre-recorded message that popped out of nowhere and said "execute order 66".

the clones still said "yes, my lord" even after the recording vanished.

Maybe he just really liked Cody, texts him at three in the morn kinda thing....or maybe he started calling a bunch of clones individually before realizing how time consuming it was and just recorded his call...

 

haha, more like an email with mass CC and BCC Tarkin, Ameeda, Pestage. LOL!

Nah, I think he personally contacted Cody as u said because he was one of the most influential Clone Commanders, just so he could proudly add all of the "The time has come..." etc. But for the other clones, they probably got one general message at the same time.

 

I noticed for Commander Jag (at least that is what i think his name is) who was flying with Plo Koon just got a message that popped out of nowhere with a quick "execute" and vanished before one even realized it was there. The guy was busy FLYING i think he may have missed that split second message...."order...uh...what? 16? 606? 42? play back the message dammit!"

 

It's a wonder he didn't smash into anything while taking that call. That's a contributing factor to vehicular accidents.

 

haha, yeah imagine if... "execute.." "what the?!?" -BOOM!-

in the movie it did say "Order 66" for Commander Jag though.

 

The number one thing that has always bothered me about Order 66 is what some others have already pointed out, that they all started to immediately address Palpatine as "Lord" as soon as the order was given.

It's already been established that the clones have the capacity to make decisions and disobey orders. Now that clones like Cody and Obi-Wan have been established as being comrades in arms for three years, when I go back and watch ROTS, it's not even the fact that Cody would turn on Obi-Wan that bothers me, but the ease with which he made that decision.

It might be too much the wishful thinking on my part, but I hope that TCW sheds some light on that. Perhaps the clones lose respect for the Jedi for some reason? Or maybe Palpatine ensures that regulation of cloning is more strict and that clones that show a greater degree of independent thought are swiftly purged, or something like that.

Or maybe the clone commanders become privy to Jedi suspicions about Palpatine and they report such talk to Palpatine who puts them on high alert such that when Order 66 comes down the chain of command, it's not completely out of the blue. Or maybe Palpatine starts elevating the clones to command positions and relieving some Jedi from duty causing an outrage that Palpatine could play up as unpatriotic sentiments and then could use that as the foundation upon which he later builds the idea of a Jedi conspiracy against the Republic.

Regardless, as it stands, when I go from seeing the clones as Republic comrades in arms with the Jedi to being S.S. like troops that will shoot a commander in the back without a second thought, there is little transition.

 

The best explanation would be that 'Order 66' is a trigger which transforms them into mindless drones. It has been established that the clones are not, in fact, normal human beings but genetically modified soldiers. They do follow every direct when it is given as such. And the fact that they refer to His Excellency the Supreme Chancellor as 'My Lord' strongly suggests that they are now directly controlled by the Sith and somewhat 'aware' of that fact. If they were not, they would not address Palpatine as 'My Lord'.

A good example for the blind inhuman obedience of the clones is seen in 'Supply Lines'. They just go along with Master Di's plan to sacrifice themselves to save some civilians. Normal soldiers would not do such a thing. We see that Rex is able to let the deserter get away, but this works only because he is not commanded to betray him. The clones are capable of deception - Slick is prove of that - but this particular clone seems to be a failure. Else he would not have been able to question the purpose of the clone soldiers.

 

Except that turning people into mindless drones is not remotely possible or plausible, no matter what genetic data they've obtained. Especially since, you know, they aren't mindless, but carry out said behavior in a creative and intelligent fashion

Again, I can't help but shake my head at people thinking things that regularly happen are impossible (people betraying their friends for the government they work for...happens all the time. If studies are any indication, 8 out of every 10 people pulled off the street would do it. Soldiers sacrificing their lives for random civilians; do you want a list of all the last stands fought to save a group of civilians? Cause from ancient times to the war in Iraq, there examples beyond counting)

 

One of the selling points of the army was that they would - in theory - take any legitimate order without question.

Or that he's the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, and they're aware of that.

According to the EU, Order 66 was not itself hardwired into the clones.

 

This may be slightly off-topic, but related:

What always baffles me, is the fact that Obi-Wan accidentally learns about the Clone Army, because he's looking for Fett.

Think about it. If Dooku told the Kaminoans not to contact the Jedi under any circumstances (IF!), then how would the Jedi have contacted the Kaminoans?

Surely the whole attempt on Amidala and the Kaminoan saber dart can't all be Dooku's manipulations.

And if Dooku did not tell the Kaminoans not to contact the Jedi, then why didn't the Kaminoans contact the Jedi themselves?

Perhaps the Sith were hoping the threat of the separatist army would lead the Kaminoans to contact the Jedi...

I've also always wondered why Obi-Wan didn't find the clone army suspicious... Fett flat out told him about a man named Tyranus. Which is odd because you'd think Dooku would tell Fett not to reveal who ordered the clone army, or its donor for that matter.

 

But wouldn't that be suspicious?

 

I thought about that a lot myself, though only reading your post as a solution occurred to me.

The Clone Army wasn't supposed to be used at Geonosis. The Seps were supposed to wipe out the Jedi task force, and then they were supposed to march on Coursicant and terrify everyone...at which point Palpatine or one of his goons would "discover" the Clone Army and have them play big dam heroes.

The discovery of the Kamino set things into motion faster than Palps anticipated. Didn't throw off his plans in the long run, but things might have gone faster and smoother if more Jedi had died there and the Seps threatened Couriscant early on.

 

it's slight oddity not mistake... ok Republic is now Empire and Palpy must be it's emperor... but it's still funny how he later calls him "chancellor" since then Palpy is Emperor

since it seems absolutely EVERYTHING is possible through the Force i would say Sidious just turned the switch making clones to be mindless drones that's no more odd than turning one to be a dragon clones did have programmed hate for jedi they didn't realise before order66 came- but Ventress activated Slick's hatred beforehand- i think Dooku hinted it's possible- clones are not normal people- but it seems they are capable of changing towards normal people- but they are programmed- they can live normally if they are not in the environment that reminds them of this programming- but i think that if cut Lawquane would be transferred to battlefield he would have odd internal passion to fight and die for the Republic- i am not sure could he fight against it.... now when he is out of the normal clone-environment his normal sense works- he can see clones like they are- but Rex cannot- he was starting to understand Cut but then he returned back to normal company.... but if someone defies order 66 it could be Rex- didn't some clones defy it on books?

- these clones must have experienced something that makes them to be able to break loose out of their limited view of the universe programmed in their heads- Cut managed to do that after his traumatic experience and i think that Suu Lawquane also had great influence over him- maybe she don't even know it herself but i think Cut would have returned back to army if he wouldn't have fell in love with her....

palpy wanted to be epic "This will be a day long remembered" so he wanted to be kinda poetic and enjoy his power- he chose Cody first because Obi-wan is most dangerous jedi being closest to Anakin that's why he said it to Cody- if Gree would've been with Obi-Wan then he would've said it to Gree- i don't think Palpy cares more about Cody- he hardly knows him- clones are expendable tools for him- like everyone else- who is not special somehow....

 

yeah i think Dooku never wanted jedi to find out about clones and use them against his seppies- he seems actually surprised and frustrated when clones arrive- but Palpatine has his own plans- he may have foreseen the happenings and who was the one who put Anakin and Obi-Wan to be with Padmé - he must have had some clue what will happen......

I think Dooku feared his deception will be clear for seppies when they find out that Jango was doing army for the republic- that's why Dooku was hunting Boba after Jango's death- that kid knows too much- i haven't read young Boba novels but actually they seem to establish very working continuity with TCW- Aurra Sing was the one who rescued Boba and took him to be part of her gang in the books isn't that so?

Fortunately for Dooku Jango was just a bounty hunter so probably he claimed that he has no idea Jango was working for the republic behind his back but Boba knows that Tyranus who ordered the clones is in fact Dooku... Dooku explains his plan for the seppies that they will blackmail the republic by crushing the jedi with their droidarmy (without clones that would've worked ) ...still Dooku's comment "war has begun" indicates that Dooku was well aware of upcoming war- i would say Dooku was planning to destroy jedi first and then start a war between CIS and republic- actually it was kinda like a test for two kind of ultimate armies- clones or droids- which one would be the worthy army for the upcoming Empire-

According to visual dictionaries and other material- Dooku thought in the future -after war is over he would be sitting left-hand side of the Emperor as another ruler of the galaxy (probably some sith tradition) and as all normal sith he wanted to sit on that higher place and Ventress was first potential apprentice for that Rule of Two..... anyway would be great to see some imperial party or something with Vader sitting left-handside of his Emperor - or was Palpy so selfish he turned "Rule of Two" to be "Rule of One"

 

In the script every clone commander is addressed with his proper name. Palpatine is also saying the same sentence over and over again. It's just due to Lucas' stupid cutting habits that this is not in the movie.

Making 'Order 66' not a trigger makes this whole thing much less convincing. There is no tendency at all given in AOTC, ROTS or TCW that the clones might have problems with the Jedi, the way they treat them, or the political system of the Republic. They were bread to don't care about politics. And the clones are, in a fashion, really mindless drones. They are not citizens but soldiers bred for the purpose to fight a stupid war and then to become the tools of the new regime to suppress the real citizens of the Republic. And they do this without questioning. Characterizing these guys is really a mistake in my opinion. They are not (and should not resemble) normal human beings.

About the way the clones were discovered: I always assumed Palpatine arranged everything. He made Obi-Wan and Anakin the protectors of Padmé. And through Tyranus he should have known about the assassination attempt on her life (in fact, it makes sense that the guy really behind this whole thing was Sidious not only Gunray, because Sidious wanted Padmé to disappear to get the Military Creation Act through the Senate - and I'm sure she would also have not been really eager to grant Palpatine his Emergency Powers either), which means that it makes sense for him to assume that the Jedi would eventually be able to track Jango to Kamino.

Had Palpatine not asked the Jedi to appoint Obi-Wan to Padmé, none of this would have happened.

And I'm pretty sure that Palpatine wanted the clones to remain a 'Jedi army' to the public and the Senate, as this enabled him to blame the Jedi (the Council on one side and the 'former Jedi' Dooku on the other) for the whole war. An important part of this plan was that the Jedi had to discover and present this army to the Senate. So neither he nor his government were responsible for the creation of this illegal army. If something would have gone wrong, he could have pointed at the Jedi and accuse them of treason. After all, apparently they did create an army ten years before there was a need for it. Surely, they originally intended to take over the Republic with it...