Full Series Politics: Kamino and the Sith

That does make sense actually, thanks. I just wish it would've been made a little clearer in AotC.

 

but isn't it more fun when you have to figure it out yourself

 

Their obedience to Republic orders is not dependent upon these things. It goes both ways: they don't have problems with the Jedi, but by the same token they don't ultimately have problems with an order to kill Jedi in the name of the Republic.

That's not the way it appears in the novelization and other EU, for whatever that's worth.

 

it needs more explaining for sure- i don't really remember novel any more though.... but clones seem to have some sort of personality change as well- cody sounds so evil later on

 

That's exactly how I saw it. It was some type of subliminal message imbedded in their minds when they were being bred and trained at Kamino. I imagined the Kaminoan Cloners (being an organization that honors a client's demand and confidentiality) only knew of the orders that were to be instilled in the clones' training, but not the details of what these commands would be. I would also guess it would be Sidious who would have made sure these intructions were met and fulfilled.

 

Other than the explanation given in AOTC, that is.

In the novel he simply sounds regretful that the order came through after he gave back the lightsaber. It doesn't come across as evil, more like an expression of resigned pragmatism.

They may honor confidentiality, but there's no way around them knowing what they themselves have "implanted", nor is there any way for them to ultimately avoid questioning by the Jedi. That's why it's a better strategy to have them "implant" something defensible like loyalty to the Republic and the Chancellor as opposed to a "kill Jedi" order which they ( and potentially the Jedi ) would know about.

 

What explanation given in AOTC is that?

 

I'm guessing it's that bit about genetic modifications and 'they will take any order without question'.

 

Not only did the clones start referring to Palpatine as "Lord," but they also started rounding up the Wookiee and Utapauan resistence fighters as prisoners. Palpatine couldn't allow Wookiees or the inhabitants of Utapau to contradict his story of a Jedi rebellion.

Order 66 may have simply claimed that the Jedi rebelled, by the clones in referring to Palpatine as Lord, before he ever took the title of Emperor, and the fact that they seemed to be covering up evidence contrary to what Palpatine was telling the senate is just really shady. Hell, they even point their blasters at Bail when he insists on entering the temple, and in the script they even open fire on him after he witnesses the young padawan getting gunned down.

All those details suggest to me that they knew Order 66 was forthcoming, and they were covering up the details that proved Order 66 was issued based on a lie. Whether or not they knew ever since they were being trained on Kamino, I'm not sure. But Palpatine also tells Cody that the "time has come" for Order 66, implying that Cody was standing by for that order.

In Battlefront II, the 501st would have had to have been recalled to Coruscant before Mace ever confronted Palpatine, and before he used that incident to justify a purge of the Jedi, yet it is said in that game that they knew why they were being recalled.

 

They open fire on him in the movie too. Several blaster shots fly overhead as he jumps into his speeder.

 

It could be that clones were not yet programmed to these security protocols during TCW - it may be that some of the upcoming darker episodes actually focus on that- perhaps Rex will be killed by his clone comrades or he escapes from the training when he learns about those possible happenings- order 66 must have all these details included- it changes role of the chancellor to be ultimate commander and Lord- and everyone having something to do with the jedi must be purged as well...... another possibility is that subconscious programming that is activated by order 66 or then conscious programming but that makes clones to look very insidious

 

In Battlefront II, the 501st would have had to have been recalled to Coruscant before Mace ever confronted Palpatine, and before he used that incident to justify a purge of the Jedi, yet it is said in that game that they knew why they were being recalled.
Not to mention in that game the narrator mentions that the troops couldn't stand to look Ayla in the eye when she compliments them and it mentions them being emboldened by successful tricking Mundi about their mission objective (if they can be tricked, they can be killed). So that game seems to heavily imply the Clones knew and were waiting to kill the Jdi the whole time.

But it also implies that the Clones were thrilled about it. Despite otherwise being a huge Imperial supporter with nothing but contempt for CIS and Rebels, the narrator seems rather somber about 66. He even mentions how quite the Clones were on their way to the Jedi temple, and muses about the private, treasonous thoughts they may have had.

On that note, it is important to look at clones after Order 66.
Bly is proud of his record, and his only regret in Order 66 is that some Padawans in his unit got away. He is happy for an opportunity to correct that. (Granted, he was always less close to his general than most. In a comic told from his point of view, he respects her in many ways, but makes it clear that he does understand friendship at all, and in fact compares it to the force to explain how mysterious it is to him, and considers it a potential weakness to be exploited)

Cody, while a loyal Imperial, misses the old days and hates working for the Empire. In Force Unleashed, he hates the incompetence of the Stormtroopers and misses the professionalism of the Clone Army. In on of the commercials for TCW, he seems to miss being a hero with the Jedi.

An article for insider comments that several ARC troopers retired, went mercenary, or even joined the Rebel Alliance.

Able, a regular clone trooper, also joined the Rebel Alliance mainly because Luke was a Jedi. Tough he was out of contact for Order 66.

Similar, a Clone Wars Adventures comic features a Clone Pilot who was unconscious during Order 66 helping some younglings escape from other other Clones.

 

We must remember that Cody in Tfu2-databank was talking about recruits not all "stormtroopers" - at the time kamino was redirected to clone starkillers instead causing huge addition of recruits to be added to the stormtrooper corps....

Actually all this sounds like it would be possible that order 66 was not trained to the clones yet during first years of the war - i would say it was trained to the clones at some point prior Rots but after TCW.... i hope we will see arc based on that.... perhaps some officer we are familiar with could be leading the training even... Tarkin? Well would be better if not him... Kilian was one of the clone trainers at least and didn't seem to understand the jedi very well..... i dunno- some new kaminoans and republic officers... would make a nice arc with Rex facing a choice- either prepare himself to betray the jedi like his brothers or then betrays the republic for his jedi friends..... damn i wanna see that arc

 

Since the army is "for the Republic", the Chancellor is kind of in that position ( Commander in Chief ) already, as the pinnacle of the Republic's government.

 

yes he is head of an army already before that too- but order 66 seems to place him even higher- hence "my lord" is added there- it maybe senates position that lowers in that actually- senate is above the army before that i think and senators can technically command clones if they want to but after order 66 only chancellor is at commamd.... i wonder how non-clone officers reacted to order 66... like Yularen -was he with Obi-Wan over Utapau or was he on Coruscant or somewhere else.... i would imagine many being confused when palpy contacts directly to clones and not them first or did someone else inform them about "jedi rebellion" like Mas Amedda or Sate Pestage or someone or did clones start to work alone and admirals where like "What the heck is happening?!" "We have received order66 sir- jedi have betrayed the Republic and they must be eliminated!" "WTF?!?!" ......

 

We hadn't seen clones address him before that, so it's not entirely clear that there was any change.

 

Order 66 is just suppose to be an order in a list of other orders. I would think that the clones probably never thought about shooting the Jedi until they got the order. And if they never got the order, they would have not thought anything about it. The Clones act on orders without question, and Order 66 was supposed to be used if the Jedi attempted to take over the Republic. It could only be given by the Chancellor, and the Chancellor was the Commander-in-Chief of all Republic military forces, so it was a legitimate order. And the funny thing is that the Jedi were attempting to take over the Republic. They wanted Palpatine to step down, but they did not trust the Senate to take charge, so they were going to do it for the time being.

I don't think the clones saw the Jedi as friends. They saw them as allies in their fight against enemies of the Republic. Order 66 told the clones that the Jedi have attempted a rebellion and they are to stop the Jedi. The easiest way to stop a Jedi is to kill them. With the force and mind tricks, would it really be possible to detain a Jedi?

As for the clone Cut. Cut was a deserter. During war, isn't the penalty for desertion usually death. Rex should have killed Cut if he refused to return back to the Republic. Now while the audience might see Rex as evil for doing this, Rex is showing his loyalty to the Republic. In his mind, he would be doing the right thing. This loyalty is why the clones killed the Jedi when they were given Order 66.

Now for the "My Lord" thing. I think this was just a move by Lucas to let the audience know that the "good" Republic is becoming the "evil" Empire.

 

To me, the fact that the Emperor says: "...the time has come..." just signifies that he must have prepared the Commanders for the order, sometime earlier. He probably briefed them about a possible upcoming jedi rebellion.

That's what I always thought, anyway.

 

We need TCW-episode with clones being prepared for order66 and Rex becomes a deserter- Rex vs. Cody- epic shootout- battle of clone heroes Deserter kinda foreshadowed that- Rex started to disobey orders when he kept Cut's illegal family secret- this would also be a good way to bring Cut Lawquane back- Rex wouldn't have any other friends left....

 

Yes! That would be an awesome episode. I always thought of this Clone Wars series ending with a lead-up to The Battle over Coruscant but in actuality, yeah, the Clone Wars were still going on during the Revenge of the Sith movie so hmm... now i can imagine the TV series timeline-wise running parallel to events occurring in Revenge of the Sith.