ST Poll: Is the ST the conclusion of the Saga?

I think Disney will milk the franchise for all its worth. If audiences really take to the new characters, I believe we'll see Episode X-XII and if the new characters in the Sequel-Sequel trilogy take off, another trilogy...and so on...

 

Pretty much this... If audiences respond well to the new cast they will almost certainly scoop them up for another go around at another Trilogy. This is Disney folks... they're gonna ride that gravy train until the wheels come off.

 

Well he's now the frontrunner for Doctor Strange for Marvel, and he's got another run at Jack Sparrow coming up... I'm sure Disney would be more than happy to slap their company go-to actor in the Saga somewhere.

Maybe he could play a drunken space pirate named Jak Worraps in Episode XIII

 

Disney will milk the cash cow for years to come. No doubt about it. But they can and will do it without resorting to numbers X, XI, etc to do it. Why do you think it must say X etc for Disney to make a ton of money off of it? It doesn't. All they need is the Star Wars name and universe. They don't need further episodes to ride the train for years to come.

 

With Episode IX, thus concludes The Rise and Fall and Rise of Anakin Skywalker.

Then a new Episode I will begin with all new stories and characters where none of them are named Skywalker, no one is a chosen one, and anything can happen.

 

I don't get why you're so insistent that Disney is going to stop using Roman numerals and end the Saga after IX. Again, if audiences respond well to the story of the next generation of Skywalker's and Solo's, and they decide to continue their adventures they will most certainly stick with the traditional naming convention. Anakin and Luke's Saga may have concluded, but now that mantle has been passed on.

I mean seriously if we are so hung up on Roman numerals and how it relates to the overall Saga then I'd suggest restarting at Episode I again. The 6 film Saga relates to the Fall of Anakin Skywalker and his redemption by his son... not sure how further adventures of the Big 3 and their progeny relate to that story unless they intend to somehow resurrect Darth Vader (which would probably be the stupidest idea ever... like Trioculus stupid).

It's really no different than the Flash Gordon serials. There were three serials, Flash Gordon, Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars, and Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe. Each were distinct stories told in 12-15 part installments. The ST as it stands really has little to do with the first six films other than the fact a few characters return for VII-IX.

Yancy

 

Because Lucas has said it is the end. If the next gen adventures continue they will have their own story (see serials below). I don't know why you think Lucas would say post sale that this is the end of this saga and why you think Disney wouldn't want to start new anyway?

well, to start, 1-6 is not the saga, it is only 2/3 of the saga. 1-9 is the Saga. 1-6 relates to the fall of Anakin. 4-9 relates to the adventures of Luke. 1-3 Anakin falls creating the empire and destroying the Jedi. 4-6 Luke emerges as hero, redeems his father, and restores freedom to the galaxy. 7-9 Luke passes on his knowledge and reestablishes the Jedi Order and the Republic is finally restored.

Pretty simple.

Exactly. Consider 1-9 one serial and that is why it ends there. A new saga will start and be a new serial. There will probably be multiple serials alternating release.

I'm sorry you don't see how the ST connects to the saga. It's plain as day as described above and by Lucas himself over the years. 1-9 tells the story of Anakin and Luke and how the Republic and Jedi fell and were rebuilt. That's a complete story and serial that is completely connected throughout.

Next gen serial starts a new

 

Didn't GL state that the SW saga ended with Episode 6 and that there wouldn't be anymore SW movies, because the story/saga was over following ROTS in 2005. The Saga was the story about Vader/Anakin.

In ROTJ GL killed of the Emperor, which shouldn't have occured until Episode 9 or 12. Later GL even changed the ending of ROTJ to make it a happy ending of the SW saga, with celebrations on various planets and new music.

With Disney's takeover I expect we will get new Episodes, as long as people want to see such movies.

Maybe Disney should simply remove the roman numerals from all the movies and simply call them by their original names ie.: Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return Of The Jedi etc.

This way it would be much easier to fit new spin-off movies in between existing movies of the saga. But with new characters, as the opening scrol would place the movies within the SW timeline. Just like the Clone Wars episodes does, with a short introduction.

They could re-release the original theatrical version of the OT at the same time, which would give them a much better starting point. Since there only was celebrations on Endor in the original ROTJ ending.

 

This is a popular misconception based on 2 things.

1.) 12 movies, not 12 episodes. episodes 1-9 + 3 spin offs equaled 12 movies. Lucas said he eliminated the tangential movies and focused on the Saga. At this point it went to 9 movies and gained the episode titles.

2.) Emperor surviving until 9 was based on Kurtz's story ideas, not GL's. As of 1980 on, the ST had nothing to do with the emperor surviving 6. The Making of TESB and RotJ books show that RotJ had the Vader/emperor/Luke confrontation and that he would not survive 6.

 

The problem with going back to this "original 9 part vision" is 1) He is no longer in charge of things and 2) He changed his original 9 part vision to 6 parts in the 80's. He has said many, many times that his original vision ends in RotJ, and now even Episode VII is an add on.

Remember the reason we are getting Episode VII now and not a new series is because they want to use Skywalkers and Solo's. Disney will will want to use those characters/families moving forward after Episode IX.

 

But Lucas has stated repeatedly (whether you consider it revisionism or not is up to you) that the Saga is the story of Anakin's fall and redemption. The ST has no bearing on that story... passing the torch??? What exactly does that have to do with Anakin Skywalker??? Nothing.

Basically what happened, depending on which version of the story you believe, is that George Lucas decided at some point to dust off the notes he had scribbled about a sequel trilogy and give Star Wars another whirl. Now this all came together for either one of two reasons:

1) George decided to revisit the Saga because he was actually enjoying the storytelling process of TCW, and being a smart businessman realized the only way to keep his company truly solvent and viable for years to come was to develop further Star Wars adventures. So at some point in the late 2000's he began the process of writing treatments with the intention of producing the films, but not directing.

Back in 2009 there were rumblings of another trilogy coming, in 2011 there were rumors of preproduction being done on a new trilogy, and finally, Steve Sansweet recently talked about how he and George openly discussed that the only way to ensure the Star Wars brand long term was to make more films. So I have zero doubt Lucas made the decision sometime around 2008/2009 to forge ahead with this plan, and pass on Star Wars to other directors to tell the story on the big screen. However, at some point life intervened and he decided he was more interested in a life with his future wife, Mellody Hobson, and starting a family with her. At that point he was looking to retire and pass on Lucasfilm to someone else to carry forward... enter Disney. So, he begins to make a deal and turns to his friend Bob Iger and says, "Oh, by the way, I've already developed the outline for the next Trilogy." And here we are.

2) The other option, that I think is less likely, is Lucas had no intentions of further films, and simply wanted to produce Star Wars on TV and bow out later from the company and hand it off to someone else. He approaches Disney which asks for something to sweeten the deal... after all we are talking about a &4+ billion investment. Lucas says he has some rough ideas for another trilogy and then begins to hammer out an outline and hands it to Disney (this seems to be the conventional story from the press). Deal made, bada bing bada boom and here we are.

So it's pretty clear this story is basically tacked on to the Saga as it really does not relate to the story of Anakin Skywalker in the least. Regardless whether Lucas originally envisioned a 9 or 12 part Saga, that all changed sometime during the process of making ROTJ, which was largely cobbled together with story elements gleaned from what would have been the ST. ROTJ is the natural conclusion of the new narrative Lucas created. I mean I guess you could call a ST the epilogue of the Saga, but that just comes across as weak storytelling.

Yancy

 

simply not true. He continued to talk 9 part saga up until the pre-production on the PT. The forward to SotME he specifically says 9 part saga. The Magic of Myth tour from 2000 or so also referenced the 9 part saga.

The reason we are getting the ST is because GL was motiviated to have his vision completed while working on TCW.

again, completely false. 3 trilogies was always his plan up until the PT production. At that point he didn't want to spend 10 more years making the movies. At that point he started to say it was the story of darth vader because he was constantly being asked about the ST. And fans such as yourself bought it hook-line-and-sinker and can't now fathom that he is simply reverting to his original plan.

When he decided to make the ST, he simply reverted to his plan.

Read his quotes from 1980 through the late 90's and the Making of Books and it is quite clear the story he is telling.

 

No, its true. Sorry.

At one point it was thought of as being 9 parts, but that changed when he was making the OT (remember, Splinter was the original sequal to Star Wars....)

The Reason we are getting the ST is because Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney and make it a property worth owning, Disney needs to make more movies.

 

Yup, The Making of Return of the Jedi by Rinzler makes it pretty clear Lucas took story elements he intended for VII-IX and cobbled them together in ROTJ. I think a lot of the confusion comes up because of Hamill's statements during pressers for ROTJ that Lucas had talked with him about films down the road (like 20 years). Those would have presumably been the ideas for X-XII.

Yancy

 

We know Lucas had lots of different plans and ideas for Star Wars that changed or never made it in - The Death Star wasn't susposed to be destroyed at the end of ANH. Luke-Leia-Vader weren't planned to all be related. In RotJ there was susposed to be 2 Death Stars orbiting the Imperial Capital. Obi-wan didn't die until a later draft of ANH and Yoda was only created because of that. ANH wasn't called Episode IV until ESB came out - - I don't know why some people think this 9 movie thing is the one thing that never changed.

 

sorry sluggo, but you are wrong. The SotME I referred to was the 1994 release that had a special forward written by Lucas in 1994. He didn't change anything during the OT as proven by the Making of books. I'm sorry you believe the account of Kurtz that was fired in 1980.

Lucas, in 1983, after JEDI was filmed and in theaters, said in an interview:

If he already paired it to 6 during the OT, how and why would he reference 9 episodes in this interview. And again in 1989. And again in 1994. And again in the Magic of Myth ehibit from 2001. And a number of other interviews since 1980.

So no, my friend, the 9 episodes were never shortened during the OT.

I'm calling flat out lie. Give me a page number so I can verify. I own and read the book and that is a flat out lie.

 

I fully acknowledged he changed the structure as evident by my post stating "1.) 12 movies, not 12 episodes. episodes 1-9 + 3 spin offs equaled 12 movies. Lucas said he eliminated the tangential movies and focused on the Saga. At this point it went to 9 movies and gained the episode titles."

Once TESB was fleshed out and SW was labeled IV:ANH, the 9 episode saga was set and numbered. That didn't change going forward.

 

If you want to be wrong, go a head and be wrong. If you need to cling to this idea that it was always suspoed to be 9 movies, do it if it will help you sleep at night.

Fact is He has said that RotJ was the end of the story, there was no more, it wasn't planned to be 9 movies from the start, forever.

 

Yes it did. Sorry.

 

Yup, and most people aren't aware that Star Wars almost died in 1989. There was a fascinating article in the old magazine Cinefantastique back in 1990/91 which chronicled how Lucas was seriously considering closing the lid on Star Wars permanently. Basically he was growing tired of questions about the next movies, and really wanted to focus on producing films based on other ideas he had. He enjoyed getting back into independent cinema by supporting films like Kagemusha and Powaqqatsi, and wanted to turn his attention to TV (this was pre-Young Indy). He also lamented the fact that technology just couldn't create what he saw in his mind for Star Wars. Between ILM and the merchandising money from Star Wars the company was in a good enough place that he didn't need Star Wars at the time.

Obviously all of that changed as time wore on and Lucas realized that Star Wars was the jolt Lucasfilm needed to keep the company flourishing for years. When Lucas saw what Spielberg was doing with Jurassic Park he realized he could actually make the films he always wanted.

Yancy

 

If you need to cling to the Tragedy of Darth Vader and the story was always about Anakin in order to sleep at night go right ahead.

You are wrong.

You will always be wrong.

And after IX comes out we will always have the ST that Lucas always described as "In the sequel Luke would be a sixty-year-old Jedi knight. Han Solo and Leia would be together…The sequel focuses mainly on Luke, and Lucas says Mark Hamill will have first crack at the part if he is old enough. 'If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves,' Lucas says, 'Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems. The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned."

And we will forever have 9 episodes that follow Anakin and Luke. Sorry.

 

You mean what ILM was doing with Jurassic Park?

And the break from Star Wars was mainly due to his divorce and raising the children by himself.

 

Ok, Jeez settle down there slugger. I sort of misspoke and did not compete my thought. When you take the totality of statements made by Lucas during the making of the OT, statements by Kurtz during the making of ANH, and TESB and comments by Hamill during the making of the OT, and add them up with Rinzler's Making of books, it's pretty clear he cobbled together what would have been Episodes VII-IX into ROTJ.

Yancy