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ST POLL: Leia's FORCE STRENGTH in Ep VII ?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Downunder, Jan 15, 2014.

?

Leia's FORCE STRENGTH in Ep VII ?

  1. No further development (slight Force sense)

    12.1%
  2. Moderate development (strong Force sense, moving objects, sensing feelings)

    40.3%
  3. Strong devlopment ie Padawan level (mind tricks, some acrobatics, lightsaber use)

    22.6%
  4. Extreme development ie Jedi Knight or Master level (roughly equal to Luke)

    31.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    This talk of the importance of politicans reminds me of this quote from KotOR I

    HK-47: "There are a *lot* of politicians on Coruscant, master. I could spend decades slaughtering them and still not make a dent."


    Jedi however where down to one at the end of RotJ... and Palpatine proved just how much a trained force user could do if also a politican. Leia would make great contrast to him, but she can only truly undo all the damage he did from the political arena if she was a fully trained Jedi with the force as her ally.
     
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  2. Darth Eddie

    Darth Eddie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 14, 2013
    Just to throw my two cents onto the pile, I think it would be cool to see Leia use a lightsaber at least once, and for her to know a few tricks with the Force, but overall I feel she would devote herself more fully to another profession besides being a Jedi. It would be most believable to me if she were shown as a badass once again in a few good flashes of action, but still in the context of her "getting too old for this sort of thing".
     
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  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    To quote Mon Mothma, from the EU:

    "I believe, and believe strongly, that the Republic needs Jedi that get their hands dirty, that are part of the Republic's daily life. Jedi that live in ivory towers might be more dangerous than no Jedi at all. You need look no further than our very recent history to see that it has been the Dark Jedi that have sought isolation. To be a Jedi of the Light, a Jedi must be one with the people. There must be a Jedi on every planet, a Jedi in every city- not a few planets full of Jedi and nothing else. There must be Jedi doing what ordinary folk do. Jedi who are ordinary folk. There must be Jedi doctors and judges and soldiers and pilots-- and politicians."
     
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  4. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    I believe, and believe strongly, that the EU needs pruning that was caused by its worst author, Kevin J Anderson. That man while he was in his ivory tower in charge of the EU was more dangerous than no EU at all. You need look no further than Darksaber too see how over powered he made Jedi, even Starkiller from The Force Unleashed wasn't able to throw a Super Star Destroyer across the solar system at FTL speeds. No wonder the guy feared them in places of power. To him a Jedi of the light, must isolate themselves in a Fortress of Solitude until it was time to save the greater good then just go away again, which is why he had every Jedi always locked up on Yavin IV till it was time for a single Jedi to emerge and with the force pull a Starkiller and pull a Deus Ex Machina. He wanted everyone to be equals, so no one would have to fear them. He might as well have been writing X-men or some other superhero stories where the world rightfully fear them all. Everything he was working towards was retconned/redirected for very good reasons.

    As too Mon Mothma it always amazed me there how quickly she had forgotten 20,000 years of history of Jedi doing good just due to 25 bad years of recent history, how easily her opinion had been swayed. As consider whom she was speaking too, Luke, she was trying to see him on the idea of how evil he could be while still teasing him with what he wanted to hear, a Jedi order rebuilt, but with her opinion of them being far removed as possible. She might as well have been preaching about reaching Utopia. Now consider how easily that same intro dialog could have been twisted into just exterminating the lot of them, that speech was on the razors edge of hating Jedi, yet seemingly fully supporting them too.

    The guy pumped out 22 Star Wars books in a 2 year span which doesn't even include the comics he did, he was a dollars first quality last kind of author. At least with Dune the man had a year between each book. Did I mention that he also did 4 other full length novels during his 1994-1996 Star Wars run?
     
  5. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Lee & Dra---

    You've both mentioned Leia being strong with the Force & that her abilities could aid her role as a politician. One question: is it ethical for someone with some level of mastery of the Force to be in politics? It obviously worked wonders for Palpatine but would good people like Leia & Luke feel it's right to be in that kind of position if they can read minds & emotions, see the future etc? Isn't that too much power for an elected official who's supposed to be equal to all of the other Senators & leaders? Is it democratic?

    If she does become as Force powerful as most seem to think I suspect she may not feel it's appropriate to hold political office.
     
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  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe. The quote I gave came from a non-KJA book (Ambush at Corellia).
     
  7. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    That book was written in 1995 which is right after KJA's 1994 Jedi Academy series which had set up the distrust of Jedi... 1994-1996 is also known as the time period in the EU we got Super Weapons of the week or a mad Dark Jedi of the week. Its when most people who picked up TTT stopped reading the EU.

    This series gave us the only space station bigger than the death star (that can blow up whole solar systems while parked at the other end of the galaxy so might as well call it Death Star 3.0 on steriods, but no one realized this station could for the past 20k+ thousand years cause clearly it was just too impossible to build based on the current tech not to mention everyone would notice it getting built in Corellia) in the same home system as the two characters in the movies who commented on just how huge the Death Star was...:oops:let's not forget Han's idenical twin cousin[face_rofl] and Lando going wife hunting across the galaxy :rolleyes:... let's not forget
     
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  8. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    It would depend on how she used the power. A Jedi with a code of ethics wouldn't use their power in an unethical manner. It would be unethical to use it as an advantage in an election perhaps (an unfair advantage), but as far as the JOB of a politician, it would enable her to be much better.
     
  9. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005

    "You want to vote through this legislation."
    I want to vote through this legislation.
    "You want to approve the budget."
    I want to approve the budget.
    "You will be rewarded by your constituents."
    I will be rewarded by my constituents.

    :p
     
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  10. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Yeah, don't politicians of today wish they had those powers to use unethically.

    Really though, a lot of the problem with diplomacy is misunderstanding/miscommunication, and inability to read others. As a Jedi, she could do a lot to help hold together a fragile new democracy.
     
  11. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    In Star Wars EU the origial Supreme Chancalors where Jedi, but they only guided what was to be voted on today and acted as impartial meadators between political view points but that was it, they where just like the Vice President of the US while he oversees the US senate having no real power. After the defeat of the Sith of old (secretly when Darth Bane created the Rule of Two 100 years before Yoda's birth) the anamosity of the general populace against force users as a whole caused the Jedi to give up such a role to appease the masses, Bane and his line who followed the rule of two plotted from the beginning to take advantage of the Jedi stepping out of the political arena. They turned the Supreme Chancalors role into a dictator for life role... through public support they had manipulated from the get go.

    Jedi in some form or another not guarding against such a repeat of history is a foolish and a weakness in the political structure of the Old Republic is a nessesity that must be addressed. You can't have Jedi policing the Senate members in a Witch Hunt for Sith on one hand and force users in politics is morally quistionable, but on the other hand having no Jedi to direct the Senate leads to greed creating Trade Federations, Techno Unions, and Banking Clans thus dooming everything they build anyways... after all the whole point of the PT was a society in its decline, it was already cracking at the seams, Palpatine just took advantage of what the Jedi failed to fix. The galaxy for the last thousand years was akin to a frog thrown into a pot that was slowly brought to a boil but since it happened so slowly the Jedi never noticed it.

    Catch 22... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Look I personally want Leia on the Jedi Council as the representative to the Senate, not as a politican... something I feel adresses all issues, Leia can make purposals for laws and medate between politcal parties but with just her and an apprentice or two helping her she's not witch hunting exactly either but has a much higher chance of spotting a Sith if in more direct contact with the Senate. That way, we get the best of both worlds with as few negatives as possible.
     
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  12. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005
    I don't think the Jedi should be part of the political system at all. Not after the Clone Wars. I'd like to see Luke encourage a simpler existence, one where Jedi are out in the galaxy, helping people, not stuck in a temple or working in service to the Senate. If a mediator is needed, sure, a Jedi could be asked to help, but remove the obligation and avoid a central power structure. Let the Jedi be more like wandering monks, going where the Force calls them to go and only uniting as a single entity when there's a threat to the galaxy.
     
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  13. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Problem with this is we've already seen how 200 Jedi faired against an army of droids. Waiting for a problem to spring up is often too late to en mass against it. Also by being out and just stopping every wrong in the galaxy with no central power structure means your enemy en masses a power structure against you, worse without goverment connections the simplist solution is just outlawing Jedi. In some sense the Jedi must work with the senate as their tools, or its far too easy for those senators to think of the Jedi as the problem. What you're saying is like communism where it only works on paper when in reality human nature and greed will corrupt and destroy it everytime.

    I agree that far more Jedi must just be wondering monks following the forces call rather than be the senates lapdogs, that said without the resources and support of the New Republic (calling them such for simplicities sake) any such venture is doomed to either never do enough good, or make so many enemies with no support that history will witness another Order 66 when those in power protect their power out of fear of the Jedi being able to make them lose that very power.

    Worse if the Jedi are out and about what's to stop a dark side force user from using the dark side of the force to mask them taking over the galaxy when the Jedi where unable to see it happen before it was too late?
     
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  14. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Of course but it's not just about her. It's about setting the right precedent & creating a new system of government that won't be as susceptable to manipulation via the Force. That's why I don't think she'll think it's right for her to be a political leader if she is a powerful Force user.
     
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  15. It Is Your Destiny

    It Is Your Destiny Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Isn't it possible for the new government to be manipulated by a non-force user? A senator might still be corrupt, regardless of his/her force sensitivity. As long as corruption exists, there will be a need to uncover the true agenda of many elected officials.

    Perhaps the government could use a force user aligned with the light. Palpy succeeded in unraveling the republic with his dark mastery of the force. Maybe Leia's service could have the opposite effect. Using her powers for good, Leia could repair and protect the new system of government.

    So, while I agree that Leia would have a strong code of ethics, I don't believe she'll find it wrong to be a political leader. She can choose to use the force when needed, and still set the right precedent.
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Questions might be raised about "invasion of privacy" though - as well as "can we take a Jedi's word for it that a person is corrupt?"
     
  17. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Agreed, but yet again my point is not about her doing the right thing. If she's a known powerful Force user & she's allowed to hold office then fine but what about the next Force user who's allowed to serve, & the one after that & so on. To at least try & avoid another Palpatine situation she & the leaders may agree that Force users should be prohibited from holding political office. The other point is it's undemocratic. Imagine if a Senator representing one system was a Force user. Wouldn't that give that system a huge advantage over others, with their representative having all of these powers? I mean they can see the future, they can influence others. They could even mind trick people to vote however they like, or to agree to preferential terms for their people ahead of another system.

    Yes but corruption in politicians is common, almost expected to some degree. It's when the corrupt have powers like the ones I've mentioned above that you have real problems.
     
  18. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    But setting such a precedent wouldn't stop an evil force user from attempting to manipulate the system via the force, so the government would always be susceptible. At least with an ethical force user, you have a situation where a force user is making every effort to do the right thing.
     
  19. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    The Jedi in the PT didn't know Palpatine was a Sith until it was too late. In the ST having learnt from history, Luke & the future Jedi could put all of their resources & study into making sure they can detect Force users & keep them out of political office.
    But, if they're allowing some to serve on the basis of trying to judge who is good & ethical then you're right back where you started - with a system that's easily manipulated & yet again a Force user could enter politics & manipulate half of the galaxy to his side. Then you have another war etc etc. I think you either have a system with no Force users, or allow them & hope you don't get another Palpatine.
     
  20. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    You are allowing them on a basis of who is elected, that is not going to be able to be stopped if it is to be a Democracy. I doubt they can devise the type of system you are talking about when the Jedi with the greatest vision for seeing the future (Mace) couldn't detect Palp. The bottom line is, they are going to have to find and root out the Sith, and are otherwise not going to stop them from manipulating the government. The Sith could JUST AS EASILY get a good politician that is a non-force user that gets into office that they are pulling the strings of to do their dirty work; they wouldn't even have to actually be the one elected. At least if Leia is a leader, she is very close to everyone in government and can watch the situation, and is more likely to catch on to them early before it is too late.
     
  21. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    You make some good points. To me it's a very tricky situation though. What of this issue I raised in an earlier post regarding politicians strong with the Force:

    It's undemocratic. Imagine if a Senator representing one system was a Force user. Wouldn't that give that system a huge advantage over others, with their representative having all of these powers? I mean they can see the future, they can influence others. They could even mind trick people to vote however they like, or to agree to preferential terms for their people ahead of another system.
     
  22. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    It doesn't need to be completely realistic. Arthur's roundtable wasn't completely realistic. These questions of whether or not an enemy can form a power structure are not important.
     
  23. clone3131

    clone3131 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2004
    I have two thoughts on this:

    1) I think it would be contradicting to Leia's character if she can influence minds and be in control of the senate/rebels/republic. Therefore, I dont think she would use her powers much, and they would fade.

    2) On the flipside, I voted padawan learner. I think it would be cool to see a scene in which Luke mildly harasses Leia - "you know you would be more powerful in the force Leia if you just practiced your training more". "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Luke, but I dont need the force much in my world. Words, actions, trades are how we do things in the Senate. Not with a lightsaber."

    I think it would be cool though to see Leia protect one of her kids using the force (either comically in catching a falling object one of the dropped and a mom sneer to follow / or dramatically saving a kid from the empire with some sort of force push/grab/etc).

    -C
     
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  24. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Uh... Arthur's knights of the round table died out/failed with their grand objectives at the end though... Which is my point.

    Plus Star Wars itself is a play on more modern politics, while not need to be more realistic it makes it far more relatable which can only benefit the series as opposed to being unrelateble with now a day fans ever ready to dissect errors and plot induced stupidity.
     
  25. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Play on modern politics? Which SW are you talking about here?

    Maybe the PT, but not the OT. Unless you think 1940 is modern times.

    I want relatable through the struggles of the characters, especially if they mirror the struggles of regular Jane's and Joe's in a way.
    But Joe and Jane are no politicians. They don't have much to do with politicians. Therefore relating to them is harder.
     
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