Saga Poll: Who is the "Jedi" in "Return of the Jedi"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by grimlockbedi, Dec 30, 2009.

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  1. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    I would like to know who people think the "Jedi" in "Return of the Jedi" is referring to.

    Do you think the "Jedi" in "Return of the Jedi" refers to:
    A) Luke
    B) The Jedi Order
    C) Darth/Anakin

    When answering, please also state when you first saw ROTJ, both in time and in relation to the rest of the films (i.e. "I saw it when it came out in theaters in 1983, before the PT was even being worked on", or, "I saw it on DVD in 2006 after I saw the PT", or "I saw it on VHS right before I went to see Phantom Menace", etc etc).

    The reason I ask for the 'when' and 'in what relation to the other films' is because I think those factors may have influenced a person's viewing of ROTJ and therefore their thoughts on who, specifically, the "Jedi" in the title refers to.

    Open to any thoughts on the topic, please feel free to elaborate as you see fit in terms of your answer and why you chose your answer.
  2. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
  3. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Thanks Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon. And when, and in what relation to the other films, did you see ROTJ?
  4. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    B brought about by A.

    Saw it three times in 1983. Once on opening day. [face_peace]

    edit

    by the way, this was my impression from '83 onto '05.

    You could make the argument that now, in the context of a series of films numbering 1-6, it is C. But, I didn't for many years because the context was episodes 4-6.

  5. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
  6. Rancortamer Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2009
    B

    I first saw ROTJ on my birthday when I got the OT SE on VHS. It was the only film of the OT I hadn't seen (I'd seen IV, some of V and I. II and III had yet to be released) I remember that one of my dog's had to go to the vet (just a checkup, I think) and I was quite sad that I didn't have time to watch ROTJ, but then my parents changed their minds and I was allowed to stay home with one of them and watch it and I've loved that film ever since.
  7. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I do not remember the exact first time I watched it, but I grew up watching the film on video in the late 80s and early 90s.
  8. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Thanks Rancortamer; thanks for the follow-up ShaneP and Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon.

    It's early but it seems like we're already seeing a trend...
  9. ILuvJarJar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2008
    star 6
    B

    The whole OT was about bringing back the order and defeating the Empire.

    I saw ROTJ on television and in it's original form. (No hayden, and the Pit of Carcoon didn't have a beak thing).
  10. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    The title, as any good title, has several meanings.

    So it referes to A) Luke, (who returns to Tatooine, to fight once more...), B) to the Jedi in general and C) to Anakin, who DOES return from the Dark Side.

    The first time I saw the movie (in 2000) I thought that the title was very cleverly designed: it seems to refer to Luke, but then you realize that it actually gives away the ending of the movie: Anakin is the one who is returning.

    BTW, in the original soundtrack, "Return of the Jedi" was the music for the Sail Barge fight, so that might have influenced people back in 1983.
  11. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Thanks ILuvJarJar, oierem.
    Very interesting! Thanks oierem.
  12. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    All of the above is the way I always interpreted the title (long before the PT was released, for what it's worth. I'm a member of the VHS generation of fandom).

    Luke makes the most obvious physical return in coming to face Vader again, but beyond that it always seemed pretty obvious to me that his actions lead to the return of Anakin Skywalker as well as a new era where the Jedi can take their place in the galaxy again.
  13. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    There was a time when I would have said B in the person of A, as others have. Being as I was raised on the OT. However, in the full context, and I think even in simply the context of the OT... it's easily A,B and C.
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I don't deny that C makes some sense, but only as "B in the person of A - and oh yeah, C too!"

    It's kind of like how "Titanic" refers primarily to the ship and historical event, but can also be read as a poetic descriptor of the size of the tragedy and/or the size of Jack's and Rose's love.
  15. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    B), including, most prominently, C), & brought about by the actions of A), who will continue to represent the Jedi in the future.
    So, all of the above, I guess, but with a focus on the plural - B).

    I first saw ROTJ in theatres in 1983, & this was basically how I viewed it back then - after seeing ESB in 1980 & being told that there would be prequels, it was the backstory which fascinated me more than anything else.
  16. Badger_Legion Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2008
    star 1
    B brought about by A.

    I first watched the OT in the early 90's on VHS.
  17. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4

    Guess I'm the only person who thinks its more "C" than anything else.
  18. Juan-King Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2004
    star 2
    Luke first 'cos he leads the way , then followed by Anakin who realises he can be one again .

    the jedi order - not really , it's an institution and isn't really present in the movie .

  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  20. BigBoy29 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2004
    star 3
    I watched ROTJ in the movies as a 10 year old in 1983.

    To me all Luke. It was even going to be called "Revenge" back then.

    ESB left him down and out, handless, etc

    Now the Jedi returns and is gonna rescue Han, deal with his dad, beat the Empire, and generally save the day.
  21. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Luke starts a "new" Jedi order, not the return of the Old Republic Jedi order, but Anakin is a returning Jedi.
  22. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    A Jedi's a Jedi. Aragorn is a very different kind of king than Isildur, but they're both kings.

    And come to think of it, the movie doesn't really make a statement one way or another on whether Anakin actually returns all the way to Jedi status. He stops being a Sith, but he doesn't necessarily re-start being a Jedi.
  23. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    This whole poll idea was thought of by grimlock because there was debate about, in the context of just watching the OT, what a person's impression was of the title and who it was referring to.

    Remember that it was also originally titled Revenge of the Jedi too.
  24. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Thanks ezekiel22x, Dawud786, Darth_Nub, Badger_Legion, MatthewZ, Juan-King, BigBoy29, Go-Mer.

    Funny Arawn_Fenn! [face_mischief]

    Remember, if possible, to throw in when you saw ROTJ (i.e. what year, roughly) and when you saw it in relation to the other films.

    MatthewZ I thought C also, when I first saw ROTJ in 1983. I thought that is what everyone else thought too, but I am being proved totally wrong so far!
  25. grimlockbedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2006
    star 2
    Wanted to throw this story out there because it relates to my perception of the title ROTJ.

    We're going back now to maybe 1982 or thereabouts. We went to see a movie that was showing a preview/trailer of ROTJ either before or after the movie. I actually think it was shown after. I am pretty sure the movie was actually a re-release of ESB. I was crazy excited for the preview/trailer because I was a Star Wars fanatic. I was about 12 or so. During the preview, they showed the scene where Obi-Wan and Luke are talking on Dagobah. For some reason, in this preview/trailer, I remember it as showing Obi-Wan without the "glow" around him. I know that seems crazy, but that is how I remember it. And because he did not have the "glow" around him, I assumed he was back, in the flesh, for the third film. I jumped up in my seat and yelled very loudly: "Obi-Wan Kenobi! Obi-Wan Kenobi is the Jedi who is returning!". My mother was mortified and quickly admonished me, telling me to calm down and stop yelling.

    Obviously I was wrong about it being Obi-Wan. But this story makes me remember that I never, ever thought the title was about Luke. Even back in 1982. I didn't think Luke had to "return" because Luke never "left". And because I never viewed Luke as having "left", when I first heard the title ROTJ, I immediately wondered, "what Jedi are they talking about?". When I saw that preview, I thought it meant Obi-Wan, which was obviously wrong. When I actually saw the film, and watched Darth destroy the Emperor, I thought instantly, "Hey, it's Darth! He's has returned from his stay on the Dark Side! The Jedi has returned!".

    Not saying I am ?right? in any objective sense, or that this is what GL intended by the title. It's just how I interpreted it back in the day. And keep in mind, since this interpretation came about back then, it was formed before this whole move to retcon the saga to be about Anakin came about, so I wasn?t being influenced by that whole way of thinking.






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