Saga Poll: Who is the "Jedi" in "Return of the Jedi"?

I've heard this "who's returning" argument several times before, always in the context of it being a question of whether or not it was Anakin or Luke, but I think that's the wrong perspective. There were Jedi around throughout the entire OT: Ben and Yoda, so Jedi weren't gone, but THE Jedi were, as in the Order. It was the Order that returned. Luke and Anakin fulfilled their destinies and cleared the way for Luke to carry on the Jedi Order.

 

^^^ Agreed...

You mean the guy who threw his lightsaber away when he needed it most, right? The one who ended up choosing NOT to fight?

What was that you were saying about fighting making the Jedi? Didn't Luke just prove you wrong when he did that?

ROFL!

In fact, he was stopped. Luke could have continued, and chose not to. He stopped himself, and would have been toast had Vader not intervened.

 

Good points, well said. The OT does not show us statements made by Yoda and Obi-Wan that are at odds with what we see them do in the PT by accident, nor to make them look confused or hypocritical. Instead, we see them share what they have learned through bitter experience, an experience that as Jedi only the two of them even survived. We see what they learned the hard way and how their views evolved.

Also wanted to add that Luke takes their teachings even farther then they thought possible when he realizes that the only way he can win is by throwing down his lightsaber at the end of ROTJ and refusing to fight any further, because he refuses to join the dark side.

 

THE best moment in the saga is Luke throwing his saber down and saying "No". That't the moment the whole OT builds up to.

 

Come on T, we all know Palpatine was faking.

 

Palpatine was definitely faking.

 

You crack me up when you do that, Fenn.
Gets me giggly everytime.

 

I just noticed something. Consider:

-Han showing up at the last second to save Luke from Vader in SW
-Vader saving Luke from the Emperor at the last second in RotJ

If Vader's actions mark him as the titular returning Jedi, does that mean Han, not Luke, is the titular new hope?

 

No, Luke just gets lucky.

 

[Obi-Wan]In my experience, there is no such thing as luck[/Obi-Wan]

When I was a young boy, I just assumed that the title was referring to Luke. I still think it does, in a way, but I now view the title as primarily referring to the Jedi in general.
This film is the return of the Jedi through Luke and Anakin. Luke becomes the first new Jedi in decades and Anakin returns to the Jedi side - the good side. His killing of Palpatine also enables the Jedi to come back in full force.





Boys - they assume, but not too much
/LM

 

??
but ben and yoda were/are in The Order.

well maybe there'll be an Order later on but as of ROJ it isn't apparent .

 

That happens when he kisses the girl...

 

Fixed.

 

But they were in hiding, and didn't exist as far as everyone else in the galaxy was concerned. The Order returned to the galaxy at large in the form of Luke.

 

^^^ Agreed

 

I agree , they were basically 'retired' .

but it's not an Order . An Order is a group/institution type deal .




Edit - is there something wrong with the quoting system on here ? has the method changed ?

 

Yeah, I don't get the quoting system as well. It used to be so much easier.

"Luke, when gone am I, the last of THE Jedi will you be.

I am a Jedi, like my father before me.


It's an Order.....at its lowest ebb, but it's still an Order. Luke is following what was taught to him, and will pass down what he has learned. Otherwise, he's just a Force-sensitive dude who kisses his sister.

 

no , he's definitely a Jedi , I just don't think there's an Order as of ROJ .

 

So is that the consensus?

 

what was the question?

 

42?



And, there's a Jedi Order as long as someone practices its ideals.

 

And yet the PT is punctuated by a disarmed, humiliated, defeated Yoda, who learned too late that wars do not in fact make one great. Usually, they make a fool out of you.

There's a point to that, and there's also the fact that Lucas makes a point of having Luke refused to fight the Emperor, but at the same time, what brought the end of the Sith was an act of violence -- the Emperor being grabbed and tossed to his death. The same act also redeemed Anakin. So, honestly, I don't know what to make of Lucas point when in light of that.

 

You know, that's something I've thought about many times, though very few people really bring up this point.

I guess the difference would be that any attack Luke made against Palpatine would be, in Luke's mind, an act of aggression against an unarmed opponent...though this ignores the fact that thousands were dying at that moment by his command, and millions more had been killed - not to mention the future millions that would have been killed had he been allowed to continue.

Vader knew about Palpatine's powers, and was sacrificing himself to save his son, as well as ridding the galaxy of Palpatine's continuing evil:

This is probably the most idealized aspect of the whole saga, because most people believe that Luke would have been well within his rights to take out Palpatine, regardless of his "unarmed" status. Of course, whether or not he would have succeeded is not known. So, while Luke chose to die as a hero, his choice, on the face of it, had the potential consequence of Palpatine surviving. Anakin's choice to die a hero had the potential consequence of Palpatine being defeated.