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ST Poll: Will There Be An Empire?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by jedijax, Jul 3, 2014.

?

Will There Be An Empire, and If So, To What Extent?

  1. Fully functional Empire that was never defeated

    4.5%
  2. Weakened Empire that is gaining new strength

    39.5%
  3. Imperial Remnant that joins other villains

    39.5%
  4. No Empire - They were defeated and now it's time for something new

    16.6%
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  1. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    For all we know, there were many many take-downs across the galaxy. While the war was waging on screen, rebellions around the galaxy were being successful. Tatooine, Bespin, Naboo, and Coruscant were shown to have fallen. If the Empire was still as powerful or even close after the second Death Star blew up, these worlds I mentioned would have been maintained. It's as reasonable to assume that many or most of the worlds once controlled by the Empire fell as it is to fantasize that they didn't.

    If the Empire was close to being as powerful after ROTJ, with the apparently planet-wide celebrations going on and then for another 30 years, there's really no point in having anything else because there would be literally no way the Empire would be defeated ever.
     
  2. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Another thing to remember is that the Galactic Civil War is a fundamentally different type of war then the Clone Wars were. In a lot of ways the Clone Wars were a fight that focused on individual leaders. The soldiers, droids, and ships were almost totally manufactured and replaceable, even the territory taken didn't really seem to matter that much. It was a manufactured conflict between clones and droids designed to degrade the Jedi Order and allow for the accumulation of power behind the position of the Supreme Chancellor. When a war is essentially manufactured by the leaders, the destruction of their leadership is the way you end a war - Hence the focus on Grievous, Dooku, Chancellor Palpatine, and the various leaders of the Trade Federation and its allies.

    The Galactic Civil War however is a much different kind of war. It is an insurgent uprising against a government. The soldiers are people now, not only on the side of the Rebellion but also on the side of the Empire. It's a conflict that is brought home to the people in a way the Clone Wars never really were, with Imperial Garrison troops patrolling their streets and coffins coming home from both sides. Territorial control matters more then individual leaders, popular sentiment is immensely important, and so forth.

    When the Rebellion decapitated the Empire at Endor, they weren't in a position to assume galactic leadership. They didn't have the manpower. As a result, the Empire would come back with multiple heads instead of one. If the Regional Governors have direct control of their provinces, then with the Emperor's death, authority would fall to their level. The Moffs, Grand Moffs, and Planetary Governors would each have their little fiefdoms that the Rebels would have to chip away at... a process that could easily take decades.

    I could easily see a galaxy divided between a New Republic/Alliance and the old Galactic Empire.
     
  3. Allana_Rey

    Allana_Rey Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I believe when the movie starts there won't be an actual full Empire but eventually there will be an Empire that will come back.
     
  4. SomeoneSomewhere

    SomeoneSomewhere Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2014

    Logic =/= Realism. Something can be realistic and illogical (Call of Duty) or logical and unrealistic (Lord of the Rings). The series needs to follow it's own established set of rules. If one base destroyed meant that everything was done for The Clone Wars would have started and ended at Genosis. Instead, it took sabotage from both sides and a string of key victories to finally ensure Republic dominance, after quite a few years.

    I'm not saying that the Empire should remain a main military force, far from it. But I am saying that it'll take much more than, as the new Tarken book all but flat out states, kill two sort of rulers sort of dictators sort of figureheads that can still be a really big deal, to finish off something like the Empire.

    For a historical equivalent, how about the Roman Empire? It took a long period of self indulgence, slow but sure corruption, various religious overhauls, a division into two pieces, and an all out assault from an absurd number of wayward groups to finally finish off Rome.
     
  5. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    True-but how would that be shown on film? SW isn't about the inter-dynamics of the Empire. Way too complex to show when you have all of the Jedi training stuff going on with inevitable dark side things. It's about the good vs evil not the evil vs itself.

    The long period of self-indulgence, corruption, and cannibalizing taking place within the badly damaged Empire post-ROTJ could easily have happened in the 30 years that follow. No need to get into that in the ST.

    But you can still have pockets and insurgents. Disorganized, somewhat underground, and very much isolated and waiting for someone to come along and give them the "boost" to reclaim galactic domination.
     
  6. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Or their can be a smaller and weaker, but still formidable Empire clustered around a support base of loyal star systems. The Empire being all but destroyed is FAR from the only option that they can go with, and frankly I find it to be one of the least interesting ones.
     
  7. SomeoneSomewhere

    SomeoneSomewhere Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2014

    I like this idea best. It could result in enough changes in the Empire to classify it as it's own fully fledged new military force against the New Republic or whatever may be established after VI.
     
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2014

    I agree too. I think this is safe to say that, right after ROTJ, the new republic hasn't been created. The empire was still the "ruler" of the galaxy, but the loss of Palpatine sure hurts them a lot. It's after some time that the "rebels/new republic" start getting back the control of the galaxy, making the empire less and less powerful. But, 30 years later, I don't think that the empire has yet completely vanish. There are still existing, weaker and smaller maybe, but lead by some new ruler. After all, what was Thrawn, if not the leader of an Empire that was still fighting the new republic
     
  9. ArchStanton1862

    ArchStanton1862 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2014
    I do rather have a problem imagining the Civil War going on for over thirty years. Even more problematic would be the fact that this would make the ST essentially tell the same story as the OT except without the personal touch that made it so interesting. Don't get me wrong: I love the Empire and would very much like to see our heroes take on waves of stormtroopers again. But it's time to try something new. I like the role reversal that you would get by having the Imperials become the Rebels and the rather more contemporary issues dealing with insurgencies that this would tie into. The sense of hidden dangers would be a bit like the PT, only this time the rot would be at the edges (or at least an edge) and not the center. Which is more dramatic visually and leads more naturally towards pitched battles and lightsaber duels. That makes them sound less threatening of course, which would be where our new villain comes in and they find some way to make him/her a genuine threat.
     
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    The Empire's presence in Rebels seems to be getting a positive reception.
     
  11. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    One thing to consider is scale... 30 years to conquer the Galaxy seems a pretty tall order for a force that only had a handful of capital ships in RoTJ. I think what happened was that after RoTJ the war shifted from being a rebellion to being a conventional large-scale war between a 'new' Republic and a fragmented and rather feudal Empire. Unlike the Clone Wars, which were fought basically separate from population (a battle over Coruscant and we don't see any sign of damage to the cityscape, a war fought by droids and clones not citizens, a war focused on the leadership instead of territory, and so forth).

    The Rebels have the task of taking back every single system under Imperial rule... That's a huge task for any force, especially one as small as the Rebellion in RoTJ.
     
  12. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    I'm going to guess that the rebels were successful in ROTJ in defeating the Empire at the time. While our heroes battled at Endor and the Death Star, other factions were winning elsewhere. They couldn't hold onto those planets we saw celebrating.

    However, whatever became of the Rebel Alliance were sloppy in their re-configuration of the government. They didn't have a presence or occupation around the galaxy and other factions popped up without their knowing. Some of the remnants of the Imperial forces held onto some armor, ships, weapons, etc. Then, years later, a new generation of imperial insurgents, under the influence of other "dark powers" began to reorganize. Think of places in the world where the United States did what they had to, as controversial as they may be, but didn't stick around to stabilize afterwards.

    These insurgents, along with their weaponry from the Imperial days, are what plagues the new, fragile Republic/Galactic Alliance, etc. That, and of course the new Sith.
     
  13. ArchStanton1862

    ArchStanton1862 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2014
    I'm more reacting against the enemy being a fully in control Empire and the Rebels still being, well, rebels. There needs to be some sort of government. A new Republic indeed. And the idea that they could found a new Republic and yet remain a small group when surrounded by a giant Empire is a bit far-fetched. They would need to expand or die. And why shouldn't they be able to pull that off? I mean, they not only have the galaxy's only Jedi on their side but an entire planet of Ewoks. ;)

    If the Empire has splintered as dramatically as it did in the EU then I can't see the new Republic taking nearly so long. I mean sure, mopping up the rogue warlords could take a while but it would hardly leave the kind of scars we're seeing in the leaked stills. And while you could argue that her world suffered worse than the rest, since we are talking a work of fiction this world will establish something of the new state of the galaxy. Which I think means a united force. It's still possible that it is a recently reunited Empire under a new master (whoever that will turn out to be) but I think that the extreme divisions we might expect would be basically ruled out by the level of chaos.
     
  14. starocean90

    starocean90 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2014
  15. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    There will be a fragmented Empire with different factions of warlords squabbling with one another for whatever available resources remain. The Inquisitors seeking to resurrect the Empire will be in control of one of these factions and trying to eliminate their competition for control of what remains of the Imperial Star Fleet.
     
  16. TheBBP

    TheBBP Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2012
    A Republic without an Empire (or Separatists) to fight is like Autobots without Decepticons. Sure, you could make it happen, but it'd be pretty lame.
     
    starocean90 likes this.
  17. KINGKONG83

    KINGKONG83 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2004
    not to mention the eastern roman empire("byzantines") survived into the 1400's
     
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  18. TheLateAdmiralPiett

    TheLateAdmiralPiett Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Seems like various Admirals and Generals are going to in charge going by that.

    Wonder if there are any Moffs or Grand Moffs left?

    If the Empire's remaining territory is randomly scattered around, probably not. Each section is probably run by an Admiral and General.
     
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  19. DarthLightlyBruise

    DarthLightlyBruise Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2015
    Galaxia will absorb the whole galaxy, and make the Republic and the Empire symbiotic organs of the same body.
     
  20. starocean90

    starocean90 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 19, 2014
    The Empire is Dead Long Live The First Order.[face_devil]
     
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  21. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Luke should join The First Order. It would be just like when Hogan joined the NWO.
     
  22. Ligenot

    Ligenot Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Ask Napoloren.

    Sorry, bad joke. Can't sleep.
     
  23. Karl0413

    Karl0413 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2015

    Palpatine called his Empire The New Order. I wouldn't be surprised if this First Order was founded by real die-hard remnants like COMPNOR or the Inquisitors and it calls itself that to distinguish it from other Imperial splinter groups.
     
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  24. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    I think after Endor, the galaxy rises up in mass against the Empire upon learning the rumored death of Palpatine and Vader. Some systems crack down and the uprising against the Empire grows tremendously. More leaders of the Empire are assassinated or eliminated by the Rebellion. Eventually greed among the remaining Imperial leaders causes much infighting and the core leadership of the military to wither away into squabbling warlords loosely allied with one another. The Rebellion fills the void in the mean time and forms the New Republic. After wearing each other down after decades of fighting, the young and charismatic Kylo Ren takes the Imperial throne and is benevolent enough to the Republic to want to seek peace with finally ending the Galactic Civil War.

    Many are for detente and ending the war, but other hardliners in the senate such as Queen Leia Organa Solo refuse to accept it suspecting that the Empire seeks to use the peace to lull the Republic into unexpectedness, rearm, and then strike back at the heart of it. While supposedly retired from politics and now trying to restore the monarchy of Alderaan on a new colony world as a queen, she secretly forms and funds the Resistance, which is separate from the New Republic military to secretly fight efforts by the New Order to disrupt secret plans of the Imperials to build a sledgehammer star cruiser that can use high speed and stealth technology to cut through entire fleets of warships. Her desire to do this while her husband Han Solo seeks to leave politics and the fighting for good causes a rift in them large enough for them to be estranged from one another. Such a weapon being developed by the Empire could spell the undoing of everything the New Republic worked so hard to achieve for the past few decades and be an effective reconquest of the galaxy by the Imperials.
     
  25. D'an

    D'an Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2014

    ^:)^ Your insight serves you well, Immortiss. Are you still on the Plagueis train?

    I'll say I wasn't right, but I wasn't wrong either. So the sequels will be paralleling the fall of the Roman Empire rather than Nazi Germany. The First Order may be one of many factions vying for control of the galaxy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century
     
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