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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Pornography

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KaineDamo, Nov 12, 2002.

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  1. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    [face_laugh] @ Sailor Moon comment!

    But this virtual kiddie porn. Very thought provoking. If you were of legal age to view it, who would be harmed?

    Latre! :D
     
  2. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Let's take it a step further - what about virtual reality sex with minors?

    What about child androids that were almost indistinguishable from real children?

    As technology advances, just where would we draw the line? This is a slippery slope indeed, especially considering it would all be to make bank off of people who get off on kids....
     
  3. KaineDamo

    KaineDamo Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    But it would warp our fragile little minds!

    I think it's important to remember that there is no "cure" for pedophelia. So providing a healthy outlet for pedophiles would be a good thing, wouldn't it?
     
  4. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    I think though, that it would all be deemed illegal as long as the person's "intent" was to simulate a sexual relationship with a minor.

    But if that was the case, what about individuals who dress up like little girls or boys? They make themselves look like minors in order to satisfy the population that likes such things.

    Latre! :D
     
  5. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I seem to remember a law being passed that stated that kiddie porn was okay as long as no real children were involved in making it - ie, "simulated" kiddie porn (???)

    I don't know the specifics but I remember thinking it was a bit creepy that that sort of law was randomly passed.

    Anyone else remember that?
     
  6. Uruk-hai

    Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2000
    I can't believe there are people here who are advocating child pornography. I honestly can't believe it.

    Children do not have the capacity to understand the implications of this, so if they were to agree to it - and I'm sure almost none would - they wouldn't mentally grasp what they are doing. It's a well known fact that children haven't mentally developed enough to understand adult concepts. That's why they aren't put in gaol when they break the law.

    People who abuse children in this way should not be encouraged by virtual porn either.
     
  7. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 19, 2002
    Well, as long as none of us end up in gaol.
     
  8. KaineDamo

    KaineDamo Jedi Youngling star 5

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    Mar 6, 2002
    But i honestly think it's a good thing for pedophiles to get rid of their urges in a healthy way. I think we're in agreement that there probably is no "cure" for pedophelia, so what else can we do about it?
     
  9. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 26, 2002
    Can't say I remember such a law being passed.

    But while we are on the subject, how about pictures taken of children by their parents while they are in the nude? (The children, not the parents. :p )

    In most cases, this act is probably done because the parent thought it was "cute."

    But where one person might see it as "cute," another might find it "sexually stimulating."

    Once again, I think it would go back to the intent of why the picture was taken.

    Latre! :D
     
  10. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Um. Okay, the waters are getting a bit murky here... I say we watch it so as not to get a decent debate topic locked.

    To respond to an earlier statement - I don't think anyone was advocating child porn - most here seem to be taking a devil's advocate position and that aside, I think the issue is whether children have a say in what they do with their bodies, sexually.

    As far as your assertion that they have not the mental ability to deal with it, the Bible seems to think that girls did, anyway.

    And, as we have mentioned, there are some cultures wherein girls marry older men at the age of twelve and seem to do just fine.
     
  11. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 19, 2002
  12. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    I can't believe there are people here who are advocating child pornography. I honestly can't believe it.


    I would just like to restate that I don't agree with it. :)

    But, as I have said before, what about those societies that view children as "adults" at a very young age?

    Do you condemn them for their social and cultural beliefs?

    Latre! :D
     
  13. KaineDamo

    KaineDamo Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Just for clarification. I am not advocating child porn. I'm just suggesting that pedophiles are probably better off with some sort of release.
     
  14. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
  15. Uruk-hai

    Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2000
    Gaol is the proper Queen's English way of spelling jail, just so's you know.

    Child porn isn't about teenagers usually. It's usually about children under the age of 10. Children don't understand at that age. Sex is a totally foreign concept to them.

    I know there are people playing Devil's advocate, but personally, I wouldn't do that in respect to this topic.
     
  16. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I'm tempted to agree with you on that, Kaine, but I'm just not sure and like I said before, I don't know how we would safely go about testing something like that... Perhaps by using it on institutionalized inmates and getting their feedback? Eep!
     
  17. KaineDamo

    KaineDamo Jedi Youngling star 5

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    Mar 6, 2002
    Yeah, it's a very touchy subject. Very hard to deal with.
     
  18. Jedi_Xen

    Jedi_Xen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Because they're underaged? Because they're too stupid or immature to make decisions? That's just plain condescension.

    We have laws, and laws should be abided by. Its like a speed limit, if the speed limit on a street is 25 MPH and you decide to go 55 MPH you broke the law. Just because your car has the ability to go 55 MPH, doesn't mean it should. The law is there to protect people, even if 9 times out of 10 no one will get hurt.

    I define anyone under the age of 18 as a child. However, I define under the age of 15 as dangerous and ridiculous; above that, until 18, is "questionable."

    I partially agree with this, personally I see people at 16 as being able to decide about this. But then there is the argument that theres little difference between age 16 and age 15. We have set the law, and the law should be followed.

    This discussion was primarily suited towards America and other Western countries, I believed.

    This is what I believed as well. Most eastern cultures that is being referred to dont exactly go inside their grass huts and look up dirty web sites or go to the local quickie mart and buy sexual magaizines. There is a reason we look at them as primitives you know, try dressing or acting like they do in New York or London and your going to find yourself in the slammer.

    So, if i posed nude before the 16th of May of this year, that automatically means i was doing child pornography??

    There a difference between posing nude and engaging in sexual activity. The US Supreme Court protects these rights to pose in the nude, its not really considered porn.

    What about virtual CGI kiddie porn indistinguishable from the real thing? What would be the morality on that?

    It is illegal in the US and Canada. Im not sure about anywhere else though.

    How about; pornography for some, miniature American flags for others

    Its propaganda like this that made me vote for Kudos. ;)

     
  19. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I think for the most part, we've tossed around the age of 12 - the age when many girls marry in some cultures. I don't think anyone said anything about kids under 10.
     
  20. Uruk-hai

    Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2000
    That's what child pornography is. Don't kid yourself (pun) child pornography involves kids that are very young.
     
  21. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    "It could be argued that emotional trauma to children involved in consentual sexual activity is actually a result of the culture and not their inherent emotions"

    That's what I believe. I lost my virginity at 12, to a woman who was a good bit older than me, and many people have tried to tell me I was molested or raped, which is ridiculous because I was perfectly willing. There was no force, there was no coersion. But if I listened to society, I'd think I'd been raped, and I might very well be traumatised. But because I listen to my own feelings and not those of everyone else, it doesn't bother me.

    It seems people can't disagree on this issue without being called perverts(although thankfully that hasn't happened), and so people are afraid to speak up, which makes it much more difficult for society to change, even if it would be for the better.
     
  22. Uruk-hai

    Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2000
    And you think society would be better if we allowed sex adults to have sex with minors. Tell me, how would society improve?
     
  23. CwrnPuppet

    CwrnPuppet Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    We have laws, and laws should be abided by. Its like a speed limit, if the speed limit on a street is 25 MPH and you decide to go 55 MPH you broke the law. Just because your car has the ability to go 55 MPH, doesn't mean it should.

    Laws change. Some biologists are saying that kids are sexually maturing at earlier ages, as we evolve. Is this true? I can't say, but it *could* be true. I know that my little brother sure as hell has more homework than I had when I was 9. Kids today aren't kids of yesterday. As society changes, so do laws.

    In fact, I remember a speed limit being raised just outside of my neighborhood when I first started driving.

    I partially agree with this, personally I see people at 16 as being able to decide about this. But then there is the argument that theres little difference between age 16 and age 15. We have set the law, and the law should be followed.

    That's fine for us, but when I was a horny kid, I didn't give a bordock's butt about the law. I wanted some and they couldn't arrest me for getting it.

    This is what I believed as well. Most eastern cultures that is being referred to dont exactly go inside their grass huts and look up dirty web sites or go to the local quickie mart and buy sexual magaizines.

    Eastern cultures? Grass huts? Anyone here from Japan that wants to chime in?

    There is a reason we look at them as primitives you know, try dressing or acting like they do in New York or London and your going to find yourself in the slammer.

    Whoa! I was almost expecting a "Wipe them out... All of them." at the end there...

     
  24. Jedi_Xen

    Jedi_Xen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Eastern cultures? Grass huts? Anyone here from Japan that wants to chime in?

    Yes grass huts, As in Africa, not nessicarily oriental or far eastern cultures.

    Whoa! I was almost expecting a "Wipe them out... All of them." at the end there...

    Wasnt you the one accusing TSB for putting words in people's mouths? One word describes this attitude hipacrit
     
  25. Saint_of_Killers

    Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Uruk, I think society would be better if cheldren were allowed to participate in sexual experimentation and activity without being made to feel as though they'd been violated.

    I think society would be better if sex in general was totally destigmatised, and this is part of that.
     
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