Possible fundamental changes in JC membership

Discussion in 'Communications' started by KnightWriter, Sep 10, 2003.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Stackpole_The_Hobbit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Couldn't disagree more. People have been know to have fun with things that they shouldn't have fun with.

    Shouldn't according to whom?
  2. DerthNader Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2001
    star 5
    Couldn't disagree more. People have been know to have fun with things that they shouldn't have fun with.

    Shouldn't according to whom?


    Anyone who has even one shred of decency...when a group of people take their pleasure from insulting another user by making comments about them, or just throwing out random insults about anything they feel like, that's where the problem is. Very prevalent in the JCC, especially against certain users. (Telling someone to "die please kthxbye", for example).

    Just because a lot of users are of high school/college age doesn't give them an excuse to treat ANY part of these forums like a school environment. At some point, they have to be held accountable for their words, and here is as good a place to curb their arrogance as anywhere else.

    And, to relate this particular problem to what goes on in other forums, I've noticed that any insult fests tend to be curbed better in the Senate (KW is really good at this, I've noticed), and it's been done very well in Comms, too. But for some reason, the JCC is almost allowed to be a war zone. Some threads that should have been locked never were, and only by the eventual death of interest in the thread did the garbage said in it stop. I know it's a more difficult place to handle over there than perhaps even here, but for God's sake, it shouldn't be that hard to know there are certain users more likely than others to zoom in and start shooting out insults (I've got a few in mind right now).
  3. obaona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 4
    But for some reason, the JCC is almost allowed to be a war zone. Some threads that should have been locked never were, and only by the eventual death of interest in the thread did the garbage said in it stop.

    Disgust for the YJCC (which I hadn't thought too bad, originally) reached new heights when I stumbled upon a thread with dead baby 'jokes' - and moderators posting in the thread and participating. [face_plain]
  4. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    In general, I prefer letting people use their own tastes to dictate what threads they enter rather than overmoderating. It's always felt presumptuous to me to let my own ideas of what is or isn't a worthwhile thread determine what threads others are allowed to post in. That's why I like using the type of response a thread receives from the membership as a barometer.

    However, I agree that there's such thing as being too hands-off. The anonymity and impersonal nature of the internet leads people to be much more insulting and offensive online than they are in the real world. I know I've seen remarks passed off in casual conversation on these boards that I wouldn't dream of uttering to someone's face unless the person had done something truly terrible to warrant it. Some of it is probably due to the fact that interactions one has online reduce to text on a screen, and it's easy to forget the humanity of the person one is addressing.

    That's why moderators exist - to counteract people's barbaric tendencies that tend to emerge online. For the most part, it is good to be hands-off, but no mod should ignore this particular duty.
  5. BISMARCK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 4
    I'm not nearly interested enough to read through all this, but I would say that there are no good mod candidates because:

    1) nobody cares enough
    2) why should they? it's the internet
    3) points 1 & 2 are R because moderators are unnecessary anyway.
  6. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    MAEK ME TEH MODZ!11!11!1 OMG, LOL, WTF*








    *WTF = Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
  7. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    moderators are unnecessary anyway.

    Until something happens to you. ;)
  8. Sam_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    because moderators are unnecessary anyway


    You obviously haven't been in the Senate lately ;)
  9. Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 5
  10. Crimson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    I'm offended by the "no pants" comment.

    MODZ PLZ
  11. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    I've lost the point of this thread but I seem to remember someone posting something about how the rules relating to the communications forum have been designed to avoid "drama" and such things..

    Why?

    These boards should just be able to develop a life of their own without silly rules and restrictive classifications.

    Is this not supposed to be about entertainment at the end of the day? I have largely given up on this place as it has lost its spontaneity and sense of humour..

    Bring back the long winded drama threads and admin bashing threads...get rid of the boring admins!

  12. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    I may not be an admin anymore, but if it makes you feel anybetter, you can bash me and blame me for everything you don't like now. As if I could do anything about it :)
  13. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    We need to post a whiny bring back tony f thread..



  14. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    Sapient,
    Is there any update on the idea of a sports forum, as suggested earlier?
  15. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    "Until something happens to you."

    Like what?

    Naughty un-J*shly stuff gets posted on the JC by trolls or spammers that offends our PG sensibilities?

    It's your job to clean it up, that's why you have colours and a title.
  16. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    ...says the man with a red username and a title... :p

    Don't worry, though. It's Darth Ludicrous' fault, anyway.
  17. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    So give me mod powers and remove my red username and title...I didn't set the rules for ex-mods being rewarded for years of free service Genghis. I did campaign to have them changed to green but it didn't come off, probably for the best in the end ;)
  18. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I read the initial post, I'm avoiding the last 16 pages... So excuse me for any redundancy.

    The way I see it, this Mod, AC Council and Communications stuff is little more than cyber-politics anyway.
    Many times, I've seen these threads degenerate into nothing, nothing is solved and people come here for their own amusement, discussion, or to up their post count.

    The way I see it, a Mod is to moderate the discussion (DUH!) and to police the thread for rule violations, that's it.
    I don't think they should even comment in the threads they moderate or make their personal comments/views known in the discussion, that's like having a political debate moderator tell a candidate their views on taxes.
    It's not their place, they are not to comment on the issues, just make sure the debaters do.

    Here, a Mod seems to be a political function, popularity is involved, they participate in the fandom and they set policy for the board, etc.
    Personally, I think there needs to be two different positions.
    Eventually there is a conflict.

    A Mod should be a "cop", not the "mayor" of the board. The may advise on changes, but they shouldn't set policy, they shouldn't mingle with the membership until they give up their duties.

    Often, people will run to friendly moderators and influence their decisions in situations on the boards or to get their revenge in cyber-grudges with others, this can be denied, but it's a system of humans here, it happens and has happened.
    This is wrong, this is what stops growth, this is what makes people leave. A user may not like the climate or users of a particular board, but I feel that's a temporary state, people will come and go and not all boards will be equal, it's not possible due to human nature.

    The discussions about SW and it's related topics are why people are here or should be here, not to form a cyber community, that's the last thing, because once the films and EU stop, the community will die off anyway.
    Why spend the time on it?

    I've frequented boards with little moderation and while the language may become harsh and comments become a bit heated/personal, eventually, the users end the situations without needing a Mod at all.
    The "society" removes the troublemaker.
    While, I understand that the owners of this site wish to have a PG environment, they need to realize that the "society" will take care of itself, the people that disregard the rules eventually leave.
    These boards also don't get as concerned about their "community" or their "health", they realize politics and forming a "cyber government" is not what people are there for.

    The community board and it's frequent users is part of the political process.
    I'm sure many people post here in the hopes that they can create a certain persona or to get their Mod consideration eventually, that's why I think it's a bit devisive.
    I'm not saying that all people that create threads here do not need help or are just looking for attention, but it is a flaw in the system.

    I've visited here off and on since 1998, and I've never given one serious thought to the issue of "board health", the cyber-system and whatnot, because it really is pointless.
    Once a cyber-system is in place, the people that want to gain from it will find a way to profit from it, the people that truly care will find their efforts are better spent elsewhere, and the people that don't care will ignore it until they are affected by it, only to find that their previous inaction only makes their voice irrelevant when they do speak up.

    People shouldn't put too much stake in these boards, there are lots of them out there, if .TFN shut down tomorrow, they could go to any of the many SW boards on the Internet to get their fix.

    The people that are in charge will run the boards as they see fit, but ultimately, their power is limited. They cannot make people want to post here, they cannot make people interested in the subject matter, they can only attempt to control the technical operation of the board and the policing of it, that is all.

    I real
  19. Daughter_of_Yubyub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    *sigh*

    Asking mods not to mingle is ridiculous. They were regular users before their promotion, why would they stop after? Besides, a mod who doesn't know what's really going on is an ineffective mod.

    Problems won't just take care of themselves. If the society were left to take care of its own problems, it would just result in the flamers, trollers etc. ruling the board while other users are scared off. I post at TF.N because of the "family friendly" atmosphere. If it were to close tomorrow, I couldn't just go to some other SW board. It wouldn't be the same atmosphere, and it wouldn't be the same community.

    YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002
  20. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Since this site wishes to take itself so seriously, it makes sense not to have the Mods interact in the discussions.
    If they get into a debate in one thread and there are problems happening in another thread, they aren't taking care of it, they are discussing a topic, they aren't moderating.

    Also, opinions will form on certain posters they may have disagreements with, they are human, they can harbor a grudge, it's best that they are not a active participant as to not make them look biased.
    It seems that people here want a lot that isn't possible, they want to have their community, but they don't want to set logical ground rules for it's circumstances.

    As for the "family friendly" aspect... I'm sure the JC isn't the only place on the Net that offers that and SW discussions.
    No offense, but people come and go, this isn't a real life relationship, don't act as though it is.

    This site has it's fair share of spammers, trolls, etc. with or without mods, it goes with the territory.
    I'm not in favor of 50 mods running around with a "judge, jury, executioner" mindset, I do want them to be impartial.
    I'm not in favor of board anarchy, but I don't think it needs to be over-regulated and think users should be able to enjoy themselves without feeling that they need a Mod to babysit them or that they can't take care of themselves.

    I've seen many troublemakers leave due to the fact that other users make it known that they don't want their kind here, either directly or indirectly.
    I can see letting those situations resolve themselves and then having the thread locked. The Mod could give whatever TOS violations occured and that would be it.

    Mind you, I'm not one that finds some "flaming" to be as offensive, people aren't always polite or decent, some people just can't be dealt with in a civil manner.
    Sometimes they need to see: "Look, why don't you butt out of our discussion, jerk?"
    To get the message.
    I think it's no different than having a Mod ban the person, they were here just for their "attention fix" anyway, either solution gives them what they wanted.
    If they want to return and cause trouble under another username on another I.P. address, etc., that will happen, that's unavoidable.
    To me, it sends a message that not only are Mods aware, the users are aware of certain behavior that is not tolerated.
    There needs to be a balance.


    I'm just saying that there needs to be a distinction between the discussions, the rules, and the politics.

    If you folks want to play, "Virtual SW Sim City", that's fine, but don't complain when someone else thinks it's a waste of time, energy, or is a bunch of ego stroking garbage.
    Some people don't come here for that and they don't like when it gets in the way of why they are here.
    That's all I'm saying...
  21. Daughter_of_Yubyub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    Offhand, I can't think of another place that offers every single aspect of the JC that I come for.

    If mods weren't allowed to post as regular users, I assure you there would be definite lack of people willing to do the job. Where do you think they come from?

    Individual users may come and go, but the larger community is always around. I like the group that's here.

    Letting the general populace control anything doesn't work. It just leads to bullying.

    YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002
  22. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    If anything, I would like to see the Mods post more in the forms they are in charge of.
    Of late in 3SA Dehrain has posted some brilliant and thought provoking threads.
    I think this goes a long way to gaining the respect of the forum regulars.
  23. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I'd say since I joined, at least 95% of the posts I've made have been in the movie spoiler forums.
  24. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    If anything, I would like to see the Mods post more in the forms they are in charge of.
    Of late in 3SA Dehrain has posted some brilliant and thought provoking threads.
    I think this goes a long way to gaining the respect of the forum regulars.


    I 100 percent agree. The Lit forum benefits greatly from having the 3 mods over there regularly mingle and participate in discussions. YodaJeff was also very good with this in the AOTC forum. More forums could benefit from more regular mod participation.

    I'd say since I joined, at least 95% of the posts I've made have been in the movie spoiler forums.

    Another good example. I think getting involved to the level you do in 3SA Sape (as you did in 2SA) helps facilitate a "we're in this together" mentality for a forum, which is a very positive thing.
  25. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    I wanted to apologize because I arsed up my last post beyond belief.
    It's harvest season in Michigan and I have been overworked.

    What I meant to say was that the Mods should start and maintain new threads that will serve as an example in the forums of what the new posters should aspire to. Having these kinds of threads with the Mods leading the discussion would bring a lot of the noobs into the fold.
    That is why I referenced Dehrain, he has started some wonderful threads of late.

    The 3SA mods as a whole continuously post in the forum, and the forum is no doubt better for it.
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