Possible fundamental changes in JC membership

You are wrong KW.

I will grant you are undoubtedly a sterling example of politeness, however do nto make the mistake in thinking as you go so goes the world.

Furthermore I wonder which part of being a mod in senate gave you the impression people were always able to be thoughtful and respectful over a topic they cared about.

You want people who care about the JC? But not enough to be impolite? Most of what you'll get is seat fillers and rule jockeys.

 

KW, people who might be interested are probably also afraid of being labled 'helpey helpers' or kiss asses or lumped with the silly posters who make post in coms like 'Make me a mod puleese'. I mean, *yark*

 

Simply untrue, and a major generalization. People who disagree thoughtfully and respectfully are not considered as such (by anyone, I would think).

Thats what it may appear but there are many people who think the way farraday said. I remember getting a lot of flack for an ill fated comms thread I started because people just thought I wanted attention.

 

Ever since I've been here, there's been discussions on the general theme of "The JC just isn't the same as when I first joined!" After reading scores of them, I've learned what to do about it:


Don't give a crap. It'll pass.

 

This isn't a discussion that says things used to be better in the "old days" or anything of the sort. My main point is that there seems to be a smaller amount of people interested in leading the JC and/or contributing to it in ways that go beyond posting. Not that the JC used to be better at some point in the past.

 

Okay.

 

This isn't a discussion that says things used to be better in the "old days" or anything of the sort. My main point is that there seems to be a smaller amount of people interested in leading the JC and/or contributing to it in ways that go beyond posting.


Whatever happened to the line about just being a good member is all that's needed to get noticed?

 

Trust me, being good doesn't get you anywhere.

EDIT: And also, how am I really supposed to do more than post? It's not like us peons can spank anyone.

OOO!! Do you mean changing my bio??? Will that make me a good member? Or my signature! Ooo! I'll be GREAT! I can comment on teh drama in Comms about the NEW COLOR SCHEME and I'll be FAMOUS!

 

As for posting, I'd have to say that quality over quantity is the best route to take to be a good member. Unless you have a lot of quantity that is quality. Then it does not matter. My opinion of course.

 

I want to address KK's comments from the last page.

He seems to be under the impression that being a moderator is analogous to a judge or a police officer.

That assumption is false.

Both those careers require specific training to ensure that qualified people are placed in those positions. Also, judges and police officers have to prove their merit time and time again. They are constantly under scrutiny and review.

At best, a moderator here is allowed to access certain board features and given general guidelines as to when to exercise them. Their is no certificate or degree earned, and as far as I can tell no test anyone has to pass to be a moderator here. Perhaps the head administator or the tech administrator have to submit a resume, but that's about as serious as it gets.

This site should not be run like an episode of "Law & Order". The tone should be more in the realm of "Mr. Roger's Neighborhood".

If most moderators choose to follow the latter I can guarantee you'll see a lot more interesed parties jump out of the woodwork.



>

 

To a point. The more positive "Mr. Rogersish" aspects of Comms nettiquette (allowing the random off-topic positive post, etc.) have been relaxed to some degree from where they were. However, the negative, "Law & Order-related" aspects (people having it out, flaming, baiting, swearing, etc.) - the less "Mr. Rogerish" aspects shouldn't ever really be relaxed. Especially in a place where we want to foster diverse opinions, and not simply kowtow to whomever yells the loudest.

Mr. Roger's Neighborhood (//shudder) maybe.
Ultimate Fighting Championship - never.

But, regardless, I already can see "tomorrow's" new Comms thread - "The JC has become Too Much Like Mr. Roger's Neighborhood (or alternately, the "Mr. Rogersification of the JC).

 

How about a happy medium, like, oh say... FRIENDS! //points down the comms board

 

My main point is that there seems to be a smaller amount of people interested in leading the JC and/or contributing to it in ways that go beyond posting.

Perhaps a problem is that members have very little respect for the currect leadership. This maybe a product of various moderation-mishaps, U-turning, carpet-sweeping, favouritism, and blame-dodging. Who can blame them ?

 

Perhaps a problem is that members have very little respect for the currect leadership.

How large an amount are you thinking of?

I don't doubt that some people don't respect the current leadership. However, that doesn't stop anyone from themselves becoming leaders by setting a good example, contributing positively to various forums and discussions and being a good member of the community. Or does it?

 

However, that doesn't stop anyone from themselves becoming leaders by setting a good example, contributing positively to various forums and discussions and being a good member of the community.

Why would they do that if they feel the current state of the JC is a bit of a joke? Why aline yourself with a leadership you don't respect ?

What you are suggesting is almost 'mod-wannabie' territory, and we don't need anymore of those.

What I'm driving at is that if the mod's were doing a better job (see above points), your general members would be saying "wow, the mods are great, I love what they are doing here", which would lead to "I wish I was more like KnightWriter", or perhaps even "I wish I was more like DarthSapient".

*Then* you might get more decent mod candidates (to avoid the constant recycling) and more people being 'quality' posters helping out and setting a good example.

 

Why would they do that if they feel the current state of the JC is a bit of a joke? Why aline yourself with a leadership you don't respect ?


How is doing any of those things aligning yourself with leadership you don't respect?

What I'm gathering from you is a disdain for people who do in fact do those things already, and that you don't wish to see people doing those things, and that those who do are "mod-wannabes." If I'm wrong, please do clarify for me.

I fail to see how anyone needs to feel that moderators are doing a good job in order to contribute positively to forums and discussions and be a good member of the community.

 

Malkie

I agree that Mods should be an example and the leaders for the rest of the user community.

I really don't know what percentage of the user community disrespects or has negative feelings about the Mods, I can only go by how I feel.

KW

Some people try to set good examples, but when you have no power and contentuous circumstances occur, you need the support of mods to ensure fairness and justice for those "good" users who are trying to contribute positively to TFn.

 

What I'm gathering from you is a disdain for people who do in fact do those things already, and that you don't wish to see people doing those things.

I'm not a fan of 'mod-wannabies' who are clearly out to copy and paste the TOS in threads etc etc, but I don't mind if people want to contribute positively to the JC. I don't have a problem with that, and its not really the issue here.

You are asking why there are fewer positively contributing people, and I'm trying to give you my opinion.

I fail to see how anyone needs to feel that moderators are doing a good job in order to contribute positively to forums and discussions and be a good member of the community.

Then that is why you fail (hoho, SW reference). Thats my exact point - if you don't care what people think of your abilities, then why on earth would anyone contribute positively.

Say for example you have a job, and all of your bosses are complete toolbags - whats the point in working hard ? For the good of the company ? Thats lame as you are never going to see the results of that.

You are the leaders, you are the ones who should be setting the good example, and you are the ones who should generally be liked across the forums. Saying "we're not liked, but we couldn't care less" is not going to help your problem.

 

Say for example you have a job, and all of your bosses are complete toolbags - whats the point in working hard

Self-respect is one reason, along with respect for what you and probably others are trying to accomplish or take part in.

You are the leaders, you are the ones who should be setting the good example, and you are the ones who should generally be liked across the forums. Saying "we're not liked, but we couldn't care less" is not going to help your problem.

I never said I (or anyone else) didn't care. I like to think I do. Rather, that agreeing with the administration and thinking that members of the administration are doing a good job isn't required to be a member who contributes positively to the JC.

 

Self respect is certainly a valid point, however this is an internet forum, not a job.

I never said I (or anyone else) didn't care. I like to think I do.

I'm confident that you do care. I'm confident that all the mods care otherwise you wouldn't waste your time on the responsibilites that come with being a moderator. Perhaps I should have said "we're not liked, but we don't think it matters"

Here's an analogy...........what happens to the political party in office if they do a crappy job and no-one likes them or respects them ?

I'm confident that you understand my point, but that you don't agree with it. You've asked a question, and I'm giving you my opinion, thats all.

 

Personally, I have a good deal of respect for the mods/admins. Not because I always agree with decisions, but because I like that TFN has recognized the need for some level of heirarchy to maintain order in the many threads and boards. I really do care about how TFN is run and quite frankly I'd love to be a mod someday and be able to share my opinions more directly through MS, etc.

 

k, I read the whole thread... lots of looong winded posts in this thread... but a lot of good ones too.

I read just about everything in Comms... but rarely do I post here. I guess it's because I feel like I can't really affect that much. It is true that most of the frequent comms posters are looked at as 1. mod kissers, or 2. drama trolls, depending on whether or not they agree with the administration. That is most likely NOT the intent of the posters, but that's what they can get labeled as.

I am there and fighting for issues like the slash policy, unfair (IMO only) bans or rules, or when I feel I can actually add something unique to the discussion.

I argue policies like the slash policy NOT because I think I can change it, but because I think it's important that people see that I (and others) care about the issue.

Frankly, most of the stuff that comes up in comms I just don't care about enough to post in. Comms is a fickle forum, that can be full of drama one week and then dead for the next three. I guess what Comms needs is more users taking initiative and starting their own threads about issues they care about.

BUT this is a discouraging task, I think. Of course, this is coming from someone who has started three threads in my 2000+ posts

But frequently topics are locked because of redundancy or because it's not an issue up for discussion. also, lots of people post threads that really don't belong here and those get locked too. Also, because comms has stricter rules, it's more intimidating.

I honestly think there are about as many threads about fixing the JC in JCC as there are in Comms

Hope that was somewhat helpful, sorry it got a little long

Oh, and as far the having respect for the mods?. The thing I most respect with mods is the time commitment and care with which (most) do their job. I do respect that even if I don?t agree with all of you and your decisions

 

Why has the posting in this forum died off?

Because the "stricter than normal" rules here are are being misused and at times purposely misinterpreted to keep the forum "clean" (cite: recent baiting clarification). In short, it's not really considered a safe forum to post in because there is a very good chance users will be banned unneccessarily. Kadue's stricter rules for Comms were supposed to kill "drama" in the forum and encourage the discussion of most topics to come back here rather than being posted to a small group of people in the AC, making the AC redundant. That seems to have failed because the impetus to ban longer for smaller infractions is happening but the posting isn't. I dunno...has the AC been inundated with quality topics of late?


Why are there no good mod candidates?

The simple fact is that there are good mod candidates, they just don't fit the current administrations idea of a good mod. Are mods still voted in by polling candidates in MS after questionnaires are forwarded to them? The anwer is no, sometimes mods are promoted because existing mods want them promoted and nobody argues against it. Sometimes ex-mods are promoted because they have more experience than the average punter. So one must ask the question, is the best person for job given the nod every time? If there are no other potential candidates, the answer is maybe not. As xie said on the first page, look outside the normal candidate(s) and you'll find great mod potential.

Edit: speeling

 

KnightWriter said

Why is this the case? I'm of the opinion that the overall JC membership is less interested in issues that relate to the JC itself (not necessarily administrative concerns) and prefers to post without getting much involved in how things work here. There are still exceptions of course, but my point is that such a thing is becoming the exception, and that it's a cause for concern for the boards and their future.


Personally, KW, all hell could be breaking out between yourself, Gandolf, Chyren or whomever else is in charge of this site, and to tell you the truth, It is really kind of irrelevant to me.

I know when I first came here, there were ton's of quasi-mod's, people who were definitely out lobbying, lobbying, lobbying, wanting to be that next person selected to be a moderator. I remember all manners of flame wars, baiting wars, done to try to make someone 'look' moderator material and such. And I remember the few times I did check out this particular board, I saw all kinds of 'Oh, so and so did this or that', and to tell you the truth, this seemed to become the 'Whiner's Board' to me, which is why I almost never come here (this was the first time I have been on this board I think in about a year).

So to me, yes, I would say at least in my case, that as long as the boards are up and operating and a certain 'understanding' is known to all participants on these boards, I could care less what is going on behind the scenes where the average poster does not go.

 

I would just like to say DA is being brilliant and I agree with him