Full Series Possible Grievous explanation

You can't argue that Savage is less powerful than CW Grievous just because he hasn't yet had an opportunity to take on more than 2 Jedi at once. Based on how he took out all the clones and the Jedi I think Savage could quite handily defeat the same numbers CW Grievous was fighting against. As you point out Savage has plenty of characteristics to make him adept at decimating Jedi. But so far he's only been given the chance to take on 2 Force-users at a time; Anakin and Obi Wan. The other times he fought Master Halsey and Knox 1-on-1, and then against Dooku he was fighting with Ventress until the end, then he was thrown away by the combined Force powers of the other two and they left him behind. Note that I said Force powers; it was demonstrated in the brief lightsaber scuffle that Savage's sheer size and strength allowed him to best both Dooku and Ventress, and the only reasons he went down again and again was because he had no idea how to deal with Lightning. But the Jedi don't use Lightning (as a whole) so therefore it would come down to the lightsaber combat, and as I've stated that would usually result in him winning, or at least having the advantage. Size and strength over your opponents requires cunning and deception to overcome (see: Bane vs Zannah), something which the Sith are great at but the Jedi aren't.

It's this same cunning and deception that allows Grievous to win on Hypori. This was his big reveal to the Jedi, no-one had ever fought him before and lived to tell the tale. So many things about his character and his fighting style were brand new to the Jedi, so they could not possibly have prepared for it. Very rarely would they run across someone as well-trained in lightsaber combat as Grievous - remember that the Sith only came out of hiding 11 or so years prior to Hypori, and because there were only 2 of them then only 4 Jedi in the entire Order had even engaged in a proper lightsaber duel, and one of them was killed in the fight. Drills are nothing compared to the real thing; because both fighters are relatively evenly matched, it comes down to your abiltiy to anticipate and predict your opponent's next move, and then counter accordingly until an opening becomes available. But no-one had fought someone who could wield 4 lightsabers simultaneously, much less someone who could wield a saber with his foot and use it as effectively as if it were in his hand. Grievous's style was also unique and customised t

 

Whatever i still despise him in CW- i don't find any of those arguments solid they are just defending the CW-Grievous but are not based on any in-universe facts just assumptions and opinions - i never understood that Windu crushes GG's organs thing -he should be dead after that not just coughing but DEAD- no one survives if one crushes their organs that was totally unjedilike cowardice and overpowered act from Windu if he can crush people's internal organs just like that why he don't crush sidious why to use lightsaber at all..... it's totally stupid and extremely unbelievable entire forcecrush thing it's just retcon made to save GG's former self - i never even liked - in fact i'm just glad it was steamrolled over

I hope they keep his backstory with Kalee and shuttlecrash though- i would prefer some kind of combination of those Grievouses but appearance of TCW/ROTS one is much better IMO- that's just me - it seems obvious you disagree no need to argue then- i will not change my mind if you try that..... but seems George has third vison of character that i don't get at all- that Grievous wanted to be jedi and asked to be changed to cyborg that sucks - don't like that at all- if he would be like CW-Grievous then it would make more sense but since he is that sick coughing coward..... come on it's the worst Grievous ever if we claim he wanted to be that- it just..... sucks

they should make Grievous more powerful than in TCW for now- less powerful than in CW but still show that he can kill jedi then rewrite his backstory with shuttle crash still included in the story to explain why Grievous had no other choice- that's what they should do- but returning to CW-Grievous is definitely not what they need to do that guy was overkill and all attempts to claim he makes sense with saga are very poor IMO- nothing in saga works if Grievous-like monster is possible in the universe ....simply nothing.....even Durge was better- he is hard to kill but easier to turn purple juice then he is relatively harmless for a while.....

 

Sounds like you conceded the debate.

 

In fact i'm not sure about what we were debating exactly- I may be bit biased naturally since fact is that i don't like CW-Grievous but well those who do -also are biased about him...

So you think he should be like he is in CW or what- cannot agree- I hate that depiction..... do you also think he is underpowered in ROTS then?

I think TCW has made him too unsuccesful but not underpowered he is in fact pretty powerful just has very bad luck and he suffers from character shields of heroes etc. it's not that he would be underpowered- considering he is non-forcesensitive he fights very well against jedi- but also dirty- way he won Eeth Koth.....

I see nothing wrong with his depiction in TCW except stories he is in- he is placed to lead impossible missions (Destroy Kamino etc.) against Skywalker- guy he never even sees- or Kenobi who cannot die..... please let him to fight someone else than Obi and show he has skills he don't need to be overpowered superguy but just damn good swordsman and warrior- hopefully he kicks *sses of those gungans- cannot stand if he loses to Tarpals....

I'm not fan of superbad*ss characters they just revolt me- sometimes Cad Bane has been overpowerful in TCW but no one else really have irritated me like CW-GG did.....

 

I feel they should adhere closer to the original CW Grievous. It's hard to believe the two are actually the same person when there are essentially 2 different portrayals which are so vastly different. But if we are to believe that Grievous deserves to be the commander of the CIS armies, and that the Jedi are so determined to capture or eliminate him if necessary, then he needs to be shown as an actual threat to the Jedi and the Republic. Anyone can take out clones; we need to see him go to town on Jedi like he did back in CW.

 

I agree that bit closer but one doesn't have to be so powerful to be threat- see how america thought Osama bin Laden was dangerous it's not because he is good fighter - so that argument is not good- anyone with political and symbolic power can be "dangerous"- They need to show Grievous is capable commander and not only brainless beast- we hear about his great victories but we should see some instead....

Well i wouldn't say anyone clones are elite forces of the republic they're not easy to take down either- not even with lightsaber especially when one has no power of the Force to help deflecting bolts....

 

A triumph over the Jedi would be a perfect way to show his threat level. Grievous is supposed to be different from the average tactical commander, otherwise they'd just have the tac droids everywhere. Showing him leading a ground or space battle against clones isn't enough; we need to see him actually engage in duels with Jedi without running away, and winning.

 

yes but that doesn't mean we need to see him taking 3 jedi masters, 2 padawans and one soon to become master that's overkill- even Dooku would have hard time alone against such an army of jedi..... tac droids are oveused they should work together with living officers like Trench has own tactical and Grievous has own tactical- having tacticals alone is lazy way to avoid creating new officers for cis

 

But Grievous needed that entrance on Hypori to even be a threat to the Republic. Come on, you've seen droids kill Jedi, it's not too big of a deal. But to be able to take on 6 Jedi...that's why he's the number two target after Dooku in the war. It's not about his commanding skills any more because we've seen now that that is just passed down to the tac droids most of the time. And just taking out one Jedi, or two, is hardly enough.

 

He needed entrance yes but not that great- we saw how greatly jedi took loss of Halsey and Knox - they were like OMG there is new threat unleashed- so two jedi are enough- There is no need for insane counts of jedi to be a great threat he could've had bit more believable entrance still- no Aayla and no K'hruhk that would've been better Hypori and more believable- 2 masters, two padawans- two deaths, two injured definitely a great new threat....

 

Swash, you should know that the galaxy itself is huge. You would think there is a possibility of a serious threat toward them, which would make sense. As for the Jedi, the Jedi presented in TCW are in such a small fraction of the many amounts of Jedi there actually is. Currently Grievous can't take one or even two Jedi, which is hardly a threat toward them. Saying you want him, or any threat, to be weaker, is pretty much telling me you want a one-sided war. The only thing I see that you like from TCW is Ahsoka, who is perfect in every way, and yet you stumble upon adversaries of the Republic and say "Oh, this guy is way too powerful, or this guy should be toned down a bit." If anything, the Jedi, especially Ahsoka, in TCW, should be toned down, and for the CIS to actually do something useful. I feel the Jedi are just walking around, acting like they're the best, and seeing that there is no threat toward them in TCW. The reason why I prefer the original CW material over TCW is because it was, in fact, a two-sided war.

Now I don't know your opinion about Randy Savage, and I never seen those episodes featuring him (except what he had done to those two new named Jedi, and, yes, the choking of Ventress/Dooku...), so I can't tell your view point from there. But seeing you hate CW Grievous, I'm guessing you might as well hate Savage.

btw what's your opinion on Durge?

 

Really?

You understand me totally wrong now i want him to be stronger in TCW but not as strong as in CW..... and i really want more twosided war definitely but there is no need for ridiculous overpowering characters like CW-GG

No she is not Grievous would've killed her without that explosion he was definitely dominating their duel- Ahsoka has plenty of flaws- she is overconfident, arrogant and fails many times because of that......

One thing I like is Grievous- his ROTS-depiction "G-canonical grievous" and i want to see him killing more jedi but not 3 masters at the same time that's too much....

Well i'm totally with you in this one i was only talking about CW and TCW-Grievous war itself needs to be more twosided- hey my episode ideas have entire season of CIS-victories including many Grievous kills jedi scenarios... I DON'T WANT GRIEVOUS TO BE A MERE LOSER LIKE HE IS IN TCW BUT NOT OVERPOWERFUL LIKE HE IS IN CW- got it- CIS needs more commanders and victories not only Grievous- hopefully GG will kill Adi Gallia and Tarpals

Savage is fine he is bit powerful but yet he doesn't take 6 jedi at once and cannot defend against sith lightning- he is after all quite a loser with magicdoping and Halsey was such a bad jedi GG could've taken him any time like he get Nahdarr... Durge is like most in CW ridiculous but he is so over the top i like him better not to have him in TCW though he is too much cannot take him seriously- spaghettimonster-bounty hunter....

 

You don't get it, do you?

However, from what I read from you, you absolutely hate CW Grievous, but favor TCW Grievous. Now you want TCW Grievous to be like the original Grievous, but less powerful?

And you think the original Grievous doesn't have flaws? Like I said before, you're just looking at the micro series Grievous. If you look at both Ahsoka and the original Grievous, you can see both are powerful at many times. Grievous has an excuse, however, since he's former warlord with much experience. Ahsoka, for being a 14-year old Padawan, absolutely does not. Grievous was introduced as this powerful being, and his backstory was greatly expanded upon. Ahsoka came out of nowhere, and from the get-go became this little overly powerful mary sue and we know extremely little about her past.

The way I see the Republic side is that they have the stronger side in TCW. The CIS needs formidable, strong leaders, and not just the Republic. With Lucas' "I want Grievous to be this slimy, coward villain," and the original Grievous' "I am the best Jedi killer," I really cannot see a happy medium between these two. I don't like Lucas' version, and I do like what Grievous should be, and was originally, but how about if Grievous goes more toward his former self in TCW? Why not have Grievous can take on 3-4 Jedi at a time? He can retreat, ect, but it could be less jarring than what he is currently in TCW. I see there is nothing wrong with Grievous tackling an amount of Jedi, clone troopers, ect, because that's what makes him a feared adversary toward the Jedi. The CIS needs more strong leaders like the original Grievous and Durge.

This is what I mean by you stumbling on adversaries of the Republic, while you say Ahsoka is not powerful whatsoever. It just boggles the mind.

Halsey is a Padawan, Ahsoka is a Padawan as well. So Grievous can take him, but he cannot take Ahsoka? Why is that, Swash? I am not questioning your liking of Ahsoka, but it just is very confusing of the amount of defense you're giving her. I know where you're coming from, since I am defending CW Grievous, yet I did say he is powerful at times above. I have yet to see you say anything negative toward Ahsoka, in terms of character.

Btw with this Savage guy still out there, there most likely will be chance to see him tackling a lot of Jedi. You never know. For me, again, I see nothing wrong with stronger adversaries taking on Jedi. Jedi are not 100% powerful, invincible beings.

As for Durge, I just saw above in this page that you said you don't mind Durge or you like him? N

 

No- he don't need to be anything else he is, but bit more powerful than he is now in TCW or at least in situation to show his power- he or anyone simply cannot be as powerful as CW-Grievous that was over the top- there is no danger he would be too powerful in TCW- but he needs to be bit more powerful in TCW- also i hate CW-voice for him......

In fact he doesn't have any flaws- except that he cannot match for army of clones armed with ARC-weapons but even from that he survived- what actual flaws does CW-GG have?

You cannot see a happy medium yet you want to see it or what - if he goes towards his former self it is the "happy medium" then i see it- he could take 3-4 jedi at the time but 6 was ridiculous.....

Explain this sentence i don't get it

Master Halsey? He was a padawan once but he was master when he died Knox was his padawan....

He could- didn't say he wouldn't match for her we saw he did very well- he nearly killed her- but i don't want her to be killed by him simply because ROTS lacks Anakin saying "You damn cyborgmonster killed my padawan!" no he makes fun of his height so GG apparently never made anything to Anakin's closest friends it just makes no sense we know Anakin's nature he would never forgive Grievous... of course if he doesn't know but still i don't want her to die during this era.....

I'm not that Ahsoka-freak as you now seem to think - didn't even really like her before season3- she is irritating with her nicknames and snippy behaviour but well i've learned to like that since she don't stay that way- she develops- yes she does not much at the time but little- hopefully a lot during next season- her character has character shield but not worse than shields of moviecharacters who cannot die etc. she is bit more powerful than normal but that is part of her destiny to be padawan for the Chosen One- nothing happens by accident Ahsoka has special destiny in Anakin's story i hope- only thing i really loved in Mortis was possibly foreshadowing that she would be Anakin's last hope of redemption after ROTS and she would then die- killed by him after he refuses to join him.......

In TCW they are from that Cad Bane matces them in duel etc. jedi need to be more powerful in TCW but again not as powerful as in CW- delicate balance between underpowerfullness and overpowerfullness you know.... both series are out of b

 

Why is it that you want weaker adversaries/antagonists toward the Republic, but you support strong heroes? Like I said before, that's a one-sided war. I am reading you correctly, man, and it just strikes me very odd that you favor strong heroes, but lesser/average villains.

Specifically how was it ridiculous? Okay, I am going to show you a scenario, Swash, depicting your favorite Jedi and comparing that to Grievous. In the Academy, we see Ahsoka jumping out of nowhere and went Jackie Chan on 5-6 guards and defeated them with ease with her fists and feet. Granted the guards are not Jedi, so strength differs, yet they are, nonetheless, adversaries toward Ahsoka. Do you think this is wrong for a 14-year old girl to defeat these guards with ease? For Grievous, who is trained to kill Jedi, with proper training, he can handle 6 Jedi, and defeat a few, albeit injuring the others. Grievous does not come out victorious. He and his droids may have won the battle, but Ki-Adi-Mundi and a few others came out alive and told the Jedi of Grievous. Ki-Adi was shown to fight Grievous toe-to-toe, but it makes a hell of a lot better sense because he's a Jedi Master with experience. You have said before that the Jedi were not up to the challenge, but apparently Ki-Adi, and many other Jedi after him, were.

I see the Jedi, ARC troopers, commandos, Nulls, ect, being the strong heroes for the Republic, while characters like Grievous, Durge, Ventress, the Mandalorians for the CIS. The Republic has more than enough of a greater force to show their strength against the CIS. In TCW, the CIS lacks the stronger leaders needed to oppose the Republic. I don't want average, bleh leaders, I want the CIS leaders that were shown in the original CW material. I want both sides to be strong, and not this one-sided crap that's been plaguing TCW continuously.

You shun/oppose CIS leaders for being too strong, yet you continuously support Republic heroes, like the Jedi (Ahsoka).

You're changing the topic there a little there. But for the other points: Grievous, after chasing her blindly, had Ahsoka by the throat. He could have easily choked her, snapped her neck, or do whatever to end her life. Grievous doesn't have to kill Ahsoka, but at the point he could have. That's the turning point of my opinion of Grievous in TCW alone. I couldn't take the guy seriously after that.

All right, but your constant defense of her is making me think that way, as well as your blanked out avatar. Just saying.

 

I have to agree with GGNoRe. If we go by TCW's impression of the Clone Wars, then the CIS should have been defeated in like 2 weeks and their pitiful armies and leaders mocked in the Senate and across the Republic. How can you fear someone like Lok Durd or Nuvo Vindi?

In comparison, Durge kicked so much ass, including everyone's favourite Obi Wan Kenobi, that he was rightly feared as a stand-in leader for the Droid forces. And to bring it back on topic, CW Grievous actually defeated a whole bunch of Jedi and the only reason he fled was because a kriffing LAAT gunship was firing at him along with a whole squad of ARC Troopers. And even then he doesn't really run away in the sense that TCW Grievous does ie. "Wherez mai Starship?"

 

I'm not joking, I say the line all the time to myself. Usually in the shower. What Grievous says has to be the best line in the whole Expanded Universe or one of the best lines. I wish we got a continuation of that Grievous through everything else.

 

No i want villains that are strong but not too strong- anyone with no forcesensitivity but who can math the jedi- even one jedi at the time- is impressive and strong enough villain- Jango was like that- Bane starts to be too strong being able to match 2 masters- that's too much- Pre Viszla couldn't match Obi but maybe for someone else- you try to claim i support weak villains that's totally your own conclusion- Grievous can match for 1-3 jedi and be strong villain- but 6 is too much IMO....

You are not reading me correctly at all Villains should fight dirty and win- i don't want heroic villains who fight till the death that's not the way of the dark side to be honorable.... but sometimes cowardice neimoidian/whatever officer could win because of numbers like droids defeat Ima-Gun-Di- his death was welcome but spoiled by his stupid name....
Then we could see CIS-hero who is honorable but cannot count guy like that to be "villain" then- I support twosided war and strong villains but strong villain is one that can match for one jedi or two without feeling the Force and Grievous is like that- there is no need to superdupervillains- not superduperheroes and never seen Ahsoka to defeat 6 dark jedi never- if she turns to dark side and then kills 3 jedi when fighting 6 jedi at once- then she is superpowered and i dislike her- like i dislike CW-GG

That Ahsoka scene is totally irrelevant in this debate- Grievous could've taken those guys out as well- they didn't have the Force, not strong armor, not cyborgbody- Ahsoka had Force on her side and she is trained from 3-year old to defend herself and others- martial arts are part of her training....
Force makes one stronger- not invincible- but about 6-times stronger at least- so one force-sensitive can fight 6 average non-sensitives- no problem- specially trained specimen with unusual skills (Jango, Cad Bane, Hondo, Grievous originally) can do nearly same and they can match for one jedi in duel- maybe two with some help- Grievous is enhanced to reach the powerlevel of forcesensitive so he is unique and more powerful than average jedi-padawan and most knights- but taking 3 masters, knight and 2 padawans at same time is too much- it is totally unrealistic IU

If she is jedi then yes if she is trained in karate since 3-years then 6 is too much but 3 could be reasonable still- little and agile fighter can use that as advantage and many martial arts make it easy to win in hand-to-hand combat without being any stronger just quick and agile....

No i want villains that are strong but not too strong- anyone with no forcesensitivity but who can math the jedi- even one jedi at the time- is impressive and strong enough villain- Jango was like that- Bane starts to be too strong being able to match 2 masters- that's too much- Pre Viszla couldn't match Obi but maybe for someone else- you try to claim i support weak villains that's totally your own conclusion- Grievous can match for 1-3 jedi and be strong villain- but 6 is too much IMO....

 

Isn't it amusing how, with all the complaining of characters not acting like their film counterparts, in the case of TCW Greivous when he actually acts more like his film counterpart than portrayed in the EU there are still people complaining?

Grievous is a coward. That's G canon.

 

You haven't learned yet that whatever they add to TCW someone complains anyway

many like GGrievous complain about Grievous in films as well they find G-canonical coward in ROTS as well as in TCW less great than supervillain in original Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars series- in that show he was still under character development so his powers and abilities and especially his character- motives, backstory etc. were not yet fully created and he turned out differently than Lucas wanted- unfortunately this another depiction (fearless , unstoppable jedi killer with more power than nearly anyone else in SW before him) that conflicted Lucas-version- came out before ROTS so some people attached to that and thought Grievous was ruined in ROTS..... i thought differently- i was very worried about Grievous before ROTS came out and it was good he was less powerful and more interesting character than in old CW depicted......

still Grievous should be bit more effective to ears such importance and reputation he has in ROTS- he may be coward but he should be dangerous one.....

 

When did this happen?

Oh yeah, never.

 

There is alot of complaints- last time it was in Destroy the Malevolence where someone said Obi-Wan acted differently than in films and complained about that, Padmé have been "wrong" according to many etc. this is not the most usual complaint it's true but many have complained about that...

 

Yeah, I've heard quite a bit of that talk as well. In fact, I remember engaging in a discussion about regarding General Kenobi.

 

...What?