ST Praetorian Guard Discussion

At one point Rey is literally on the ground retreating from one of the guards in a panic. She gets up and starts wildly swinging her saber at the dude like it's a torch and the guard is a large animal of some kind. She was absolutely not composed throughout the whole fight. I like that about the fight. Sure, it shows Rey doing some bad*** stuff because, well, she's a bad***. But it also shows her really struggling to handle these guys as her inexperience starts to get exposed.

 

There's Rey's saber twirl... and Rey being grabbed by the neck by one of the PGs and that other one slicing her arm and her yelping while Kylo is surrounded by three PGs and looking about in a paranoid way to notice that Rey can't help because she's not doing well with her one PG. Like these things are there. But I guess to each their own.

 

The scene where Rey takes the shoulder slice is the one moment where you can tell RJ is trying to portray Rey and Kylo as maybe possibly overwhelmed. But then it's immediately undercut as they resume kicking ass. One scratch just doesn't make the point.

 

There's more indications of being overwhelmed... Like I don't watch the scene without feeling tense like "oh they have it all under control," but anyway.

 

Actually Rey continues to struggle with that guard all the way up to when she gets put into a headlock. When it cuts back to her she gets kicked in the gut, falls to the ground, backpedals while wildly swinging her saber at the guard, then gets stuck in a headlock. And she then has to improvise to get out of it, which she does excellently. Kylo sees Rey get cut and seems to get angry - he's fighting off 3 guards, takes one of them out, gets his saber stuck in another, takes another one out, and then struggles with the last and is put into a similar headlock.

They both struggle, but the scene really highlights Rey's struggles over Kylo's, which makes a lot of sense, I think.

I watch that scene a lot. Lol.

 

The music in the scene is also indicating danger and tension, at least to me.

 

I mean, they don't have to be Steven Seagal for me to not feel tension. They can get knocked over and then easily stand up and I still don't feel tension. Tension would be if Rey was knocked to the ground and looked up terrified while she struggled to catch her breath because she couldn't get up yet.

 

Idk, the scene is moving way too fast for something like that to happen. The big tension was meant to be each of them caught in their respective headlocks. A younger audience member might feel that tension and think oh no, Rey! But we obviously know our main characters of the trilogy aren't going to be killed off like that.

Thought it provided satisfactory tension for the context provided. As well as the best fight choreography we've ever seen in a SW movie, IMO. Hope JJ sees those wide shots and utilizes them in IX again. Daisy and Adam aren't slouches - they can actually do this stuff and that's pretty awesome.

 

"The scene is moving way too fast" ... ? I mean, the discussion isn't "why is there no tension?"

Rey got out of her headlock. Then she tossed her saber to Kylo, who got out of his headlock. While they were in their headlocks, nothing happens. They're not being visibly choked to where they're struggling because they can't breathe. Neither of them look afraid or desperate. The guards are mainly just holding them, but not moving to slice off their heads or anything. Actually, Rey isn't even in a headlock. She's pushing away an arm that's pushing toward her with a determined look on her face until she decides on a better tactic, which she flawlessly executes. That tactic wouldn't have worked if she were already in a headlock.

A younger audience might feel "oh no, Rey!" but that's not my measure of a good fight scene in Star Wars lol. I mean, why might a younger person might feel tension where an adult doesn't? Because they haven't seen 1,000 movie fight scenes yet.

I enjoy the choreography in that fight, but in no way is it the best choreography we have in SW wow. Maybe the best against cannon fodder. The fact that they weren't sticking lightsabers into robots gave them quite a leg up over most of the battles of the PT. The OT didn't show lightsaber duels between anyone but Luke and Vader, so there's not much to compare it to there.

 

I agree. While it was a neat concept of dark and light fighting together, it doesn't top Anakin and Obi Wan in ROTS for me.

 

I can't separate the emotion and the drama of a scene from the straight up choreography. Without the drama or story, it's just a dance and I care less. So, I am far more into Luke/Vader and even Kylo/Rey/Finn from TFA than I am this one in TLJ. Rey should look like she doesn't know what the hell she's doing given the story.

But just in terms of the dance, my personal favorite is QGJ/Maul/Obi. I like Vader v. Obi from RotS a lot, but for purely fight visuals, I love the TPM battle.

 

I think I watched the practice vids from ROTS too much. I love the choreography but the emotion in that fight is just such a huge bonus. The Qui Gon/Maul/Obi is a great one too. I love the OT but the PT duels are at the top of my faves.

 

See that's where it's hard for me to pick out just choreography and rate it. The Anakin/Obi duel in RotS is better overall than the fight in TPM because of the emotion between them and the story (although truth be told, I have a real love for both Maul and QGJ, even though they had no emotional investment in each other). The only reason I put the choreography/visuals in Ani/Obi a bit lower really isn't the choreography at all. I just find the excessive CGI distracting. They're battling like a foot above molten lava on floating platforms lol.

Wait I didn't address the bolded. This is a great description of why the Kylo/Rey/PG battle had so much potential, but for me didn't meet it. Light and dark teaming up in a battle of consequence, against an enemy of consequence, with emotional investment of consequence, would have been truly epic. Instead, this battle rests on nothing but the temporary alliance to keep the drama.

 

The Yoda/Dooku fight is the one that makes me shake my head in distraction. Yoda's just all over the place.

The PG battle discussion I've seen the most of is the drama aspect too. Rey's hand on Ren's thigh just amped up the the shipping issue.

 

Oh yeah, I would put Rey/Kylo/PG ahead of the AotC battle

And I think you've pointed out the one and only thing of emotional note that exists in the Rey/Kylo/PG battle. Was it foreplay? Ohh, I'm on the edge of my seat!!!!!!!1!

 

My complaint about both TFA and TLJ lightsaber Rey/Kylo scenes is they are too short and with the cutting in between they end up even shorter. The cutting was a bit better in TLJ, whereas in TFA I was so bored with the pilots blowing up SKB mission that It makes the end drag for me and I feel the wait for the fight scene to resume much more.

 

They went overboard with 8 guards, and most of the early fight was artificial and poorly staged, specially the wide shot at the very beginning. The fight only went alive with 4 remaining guards (3 against Kylo and 1 vs Rey)

 

no.

 

yes.

 

Just wondering where that fight ranks :

1. Darth Vader vs Luke ( Empire )
2. Obi-Wan vs Anakin ( Sith )
3. Duel of Fates ( Menace )
4. Rey & Kylo vs Praetorian Guards

?

 

The guards had great designs, but I felt that the battle sequence suffered from emotional flatness because they were simply (literally) faceless badies, and the battle lacked the sort of interactions between the heroes that made the Jabba’s palace fight scene fun.

 

Imo it definitely is, tied with TFA. I don't see whatever it you see in the prequel duels because they don't feel like real fights to me. No weight to the swings etc.

Problem with the ST though is of course that no one cares what happens in the fights.