PT Prequel Fans Rating the Force Awakens

Lack of proper sith training? It could be that he is unable to really focus enough to use those techniques since using the dark side usually means that you use things like anger, hatred and fear as catalysts and those emotions usually are not good for focusing. It say something about the sith that they are able to use the dark side in the way they do and still (usually) stay focused.

 

I am pretty much getting tired of watching characters get pulled through the mud to prop up the garbage written characters of TFA. This illustration above points it out clearly. Same goes for Anakin in TPM. Yes his victory was a little far fetched, but still within the bounds of believability.

Here is the video of him at the battle of Naboo. He never takes out any droid star fighters and is accidentally knocked into the hangar of the droid ship. All he does is shoot proton torpedoes at the reactor. Pressing a trigger doesn't require the use of the force. Same as Luke at the battle of Yavin. Luke only had to have Ben remind him to "let go" and trust his instincts. He made that shot by doing just that. He along with Anakin never used any force powers to manipulate their shots to hit their targets. Also in TESB Luke was able to retrieve the saber in the snow by following what Ben taught him in ANH. By stopping and letting go and trust his instincts. That was the only force move he did before eventually going to train with Yoda. There is also a 3 year break between ANH and TESB. If force powers could be learned just by simply closing ones eyes and believing in it, then Ben, Yoda were all a waste of time and all the Jedi of the past for having to TRAIN and LEARN the force. And if Rey was trained until 5 years old then being "mind wiped" and left on Jakku, I don't by that either. If mind wiping people's knowledge of the force was possible, wouldn't the Jedi think about that to do with Anakin as he was going down the wrong path? I mean the generations of the Jedi as a collective never thought about this?

I have seen some people say that Rey being a scavenger and learned to fight living in harsh conditions. Well it seems that her reputation never made to Unkar Plutt, the owner of the desert flea market. Because if she had a reputation as a "bad ass" fighter, then Plutt would have had sent in an entire gang instead of 2 clowns that couldn't fight. And the skills she uses to take out the 2 thugs weren't that impressive anyway. It would be like sending 2 street bums to retrieve something by force from Chuck Norris Because Chuck Norris has a reputation as a "bad ass" with the abilities to back it up.

Kylo Ren seemed able to stand up and move pretty well regardless of his "injury" His injury didn't hinder his force abilities when he threw Rey 20 feet into the air and slam her against a tree. His injury didn't stop him from defeating Finn. So I don't really see why his injury would be a problem when he had the upper hand when Rey first grabbed her saber until she closed her eyes. Then he got knocked on his ***!

So Luke having flight experience is verified by himself and others through the film.

Anakin has flight experience and is shown on screen with the pod racer. He is also familiar with star ship controls as seen in the film with him telling Ric Ollie what the controls on the Naboo yacht were. And he doesn't engage in any fighter to fighter combat. He just evades the fighters the whole time till he lands a lucky shot with his fighter.

Rey? Well I guess the next film will explain things? And that is if they even decide to go into any decent backstory. Or they just proceed to go 90 mph with explosions and running. I know Finn won't be suffering no PTSD from his experiences as a battle trained from birth indoctrinated FO trooper. That ship has sailed. He was over it early in the first half of the movie. The next movies will be like it never happened. And why did he have a sudden change of heart? There were people on the other side that took up arms before the storm troopers even landed. So people call them innocent. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't? But how did the troopers know this? The troopers were shooting at the opposition that were shooting back. Somebody shot the trooper that died in Finn's arms. So they didn't get deployed and start shooting at a kids birthday party. I am not making any claims as to those villagers being innocent or not, but just how did Finn see these people as innocent or not?

 

Andy Wylde

I agree on a lot of your points but I would refrain from the Mary Sue usage too much.

 

Ezon Pin yeah no problem. I really only used that as an illustration. I personally still think she is one but I don't want to really keep repeating either. So that picture wasn't to use a Mary Sue insult but to show the differences between the characters.

So I didn't want to or meant to use it in a bad way.

 

Ugh... so now people have to apologize for using the term "Mary Sue" or at least explain themselves about it... What's next, calling Finn a Janitor is banned..? Oh wait, that's happened too...

And to think that "Thought Police" was fictional....

 

I don't mind the term being used it's just used too much.

And yes, on the TFA boards, janitor or Mary Sue is such a trigger. I mean, I get it but man, it gets ugly.

 

But who gets to decide what "too much" is? You? Me?

There is nothing wrong with someone saying it. The problem, at least imho, is people using it as an excuse to bring up sexism in order to shut down the conversation. People are free to ignore posts that may contain things they are tired of reading about, rather than telling people to post only what they want to read...

edit: tis why you won't see my post in things like why does Jar Jar annoy you, or what aspect of the PT you didn't like or any of those kinds of threads...

 

I'm talking about on the TFA boards.

Should there be a rule saying you can't say it? No.

But because people have been reacting to it so aggressively and it brings up ugly debates, it should be banned because of that.

Not saying it's right but you get what I mean.

 

Yeah for me I have been on other forums dealing with the Mary Sue subject and I am just personally tired of talking about it. That is my own personal reasons though. I still stand by what I see that she is one, but I also don't want to bog threads down with it anymore. I believe anyone should know my stance on the subject and TFA as well.


But also I won't personally tell others what to say or do on a board. That is up to the individual.

 

Than that is the job of the mods to target individuals who make accusations (even veiled accusations) against other members for being sexist with no proof to support it, other than their opinion. The common saying around here is "films not members/users". Talking about whether Rey is a Mary Sue is about the films, if someone can't help themselves but to comment about the member/user that is talking about the film, than they are the problem. The problem is that the mods, on all forums, tend to throw everyone under the bus and do things that punish everyone instead of targeting individuals that are constantly a problem.


Edit: Anyway... I digress...

 

Nah, I feel ya. This whole things is justa mess really and even I'm just confused on how I or the mods should handle things. I agree with you 100% on this.

 

I have said it before, I think overall the mods here in the PT section do a decent job, my biggest complaint would be that they tend to take the easier route and just punish everyone by shutting down threads (realizing of course that sometimes I am part of the problem as an individual).

It's been my direct experience in other sections, specifically the TFA forums, that the mods allow their own personal feelings towards the movies, or even other sections of the fandom to sway their actions in dispensing mod justice.

 

You mean that one thread where everyone was arguing? Heels was right to shut that down. I'm fine with that one being locked for now, that was getting out of hand and it was good to lock it.

I don't have a direct problem with any of the modding here. The PT boards have great modding and are pretty Chill Bills(RIP Bazinga).

And the shutting down of threads here isn't that much. Mostly because us posters here create decent discussions. If you want to complain about locked thread, go to the TFA boards. They love locks

EDIT: Just saw your edit heels.

 

This is Disney's and JJ Abram's first movie so I will cut them some slack for it. Any new director, movie set in a new era, etc.
And we've had years to become accustomed to the quirks of the previous 6 movies.
We've only had 5 months to become used to TFA. I'll wait until E9 probably to judge TFA and E8 fully.
Assuming you saw the PT in theaters, ROTS was 11 years ago, AOTC was 14 years ago, TPM was 17 years. The OT SE's were 19 years ago and the OOT was anywhere from 20 years to 39 years ago.
More than enough time to become accustomed to each movie.
Does everyone remember their first impressions about the movies? Or have had the same thoughts about the movies since your first viewing?

 

people seem to see different things happening in the film that others don't. rey is amateurish at best when trying to do anything force related and she barely wins her fight.

rey knows the falcon because she's worked on it for years.

she doesn't know how she flew the way she did.

she has a vision that she did nothing to start.

only after having kylo inside her mind and then being inside his, does she try anything force related on her own.

she doesn't know what she's doing when she tries the mind trick.

she can barely fight off kylo who is severely injured and losing blood.

only when she calls on the force is she able to beat him back.

the bottom line is rey isn't doing much of anything. the force is doing it.

 

Yeah you're just pretending to not know that the leading theory isn't that Rey has had her "mind wiped" at all. It's that she witnessed the violent massacre at the Jedi temple & her memory is affected by that trauma. An absolutely common & believable condition, esp for a young child. So what if we find out she wasn't just a pupil but she was Luke's most promising star pupil, until the age of 7 or 8? The actress playing young Rey was in fact 7 when she filmed her scene: http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/01/cailey-fleming-discusses-playing-young.html

Anakin at only 9 years old could build droids, build the fastest pod ever built, fly starships & was not only a champion podracer but the only human who could even race at all. He had Jedi reflexes & could see things before that's happen. And that's without any training! In the case of Rey, if we assume she was a student, just bcs the traumatic events have affected her memory doesn't mean she'd lose all of her skills. People who are great swimmers & have their memory damaged may not remember all of their swimming lessons, but once in the water they can still do it. Bcs they still have the skills & the knowledge in their minds, they just can't readily access it. With time & treatment they can rebuild those memories. We saw the beginnings of that with Rey. I'm sure we'll see alot more of it in VIII, as well as her new training.

Anyway, back to her abilities. Imagine if Anakin had been trained up until the age of 7 & was a star student. A rare prodigy. Then he lived on Tatooine until he was 20, fixing things, flying ships & defending himself with a melee weapon. At 20 he'd be super powerful. Not like a fully trained Jedi, but it's fair to say you wouldn't want to mess with him. I think he'd be far more formidable than Rey even. Rey is similarly accomplished as Luke at the same age. I believe the appropriate comparison is Luke at the start of ESB. He was 21 so about the same age. He'd had brief instruction from Ben on the Falcon + a couple of years to practice. Rey (I'm sure we'll find out) had years of training as a child then 13 years to develop further, then some important recent events to jog her Force sense to the surface (her discussion with Max, her vision, accessing Kylo's thoughts). Luke on Hoth could use telekinesis. I'm sure he could hold his own against a badly wounded lightsaber expert who had orders only to capture him. That's even without Rey's years of melee weapon skills behind him. & I wouldn't be surprised if on the 3rd attempt he could Force trick one weak minded stormtrooper. None of those things would be a big deal, not to me at least.

Fact is Rey has almost certainly had a very different path than Luke & Anakin which has created different results. It doesn't all have to be exactly the same with every person. I'm sure that's not how the Force works.

 

That is a lot of "what ifs" and "imagine ifs" you have going here. I am just using evidence provided in the films. I don't do hypotheticals. So please don't bore me with all these "what ifs" because it doesn't really mean all that much. Anakin built the fastest pod ever? How do you know? I know he claims it. But he still needed to outrace the others. And the Boonta Eve race was the first time he ever finished a race, so not exactly an ace pod racing champion. Sebulba was the one that one every other race.

Anakin built droids? I know he built 3PO. What other droids did he build?


Han: "That's not how the force works" That line was a testament to this film(TFA)

See now Kylo was able to tap into Rey mind. He then went to Snoke to tell him about Rey and her force sensitivity. And he claims himself she wasn't trained. So with that line I just can't seem to forget about. We have 2 trilogies that set precedents about how the force is used and learned. Rey goes against the established lore. And even if she was "mind wiped" that is just lazy to me. Because it is an excuse to bypass all the important elements of what make the Jedi so special. It seems they are catering to all the Veruca Salts in the audience with their whole "I want it now attitude" and can't handle seeing things play out in a well organized fashion.

So please don't respond to me with "what ifs" or "imagine ifs" because I am not going back and forth over it.

 

Nope. Whenever he's not having mechanical problems he's going so much faster than the others it looks like they're standing still! If his engine wasn't sabotaged he would've lapped everyone else, won the race & then had to stand around waiting for everyone else to finish!

If you can build a droid it follows that you can build droids. You're getting really petty now.

You have to consider "what ifs" when the story is only 1/3 of the way through. That's the whole point. TFA doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are deliberate mysteries to be resolved in the next movies. Just like if you'd watched TPM as your first SW movie. At the end you'd wonder who the evil guy in the cloak was. What's the deal with Anakin's virgin birth? Until the other movies came out, all we had to talk about were "what ifs". That's what intelligent fans do. Discuss the story in an objective manner. People who don't have an axe to grind against the movie can see what's plainly in front of us. Regarding Rey's training (re-posted):

- She sees what appears to be part of the temple massacre in her memory/vision.
- The whole movie is about her "awakening".
- The novel which is canon has Kylo say to her "it is you!!" when she calls the lightsaber at the end.
- It's been established that the time she was left on Jakku was around the same time as the temple massacre when everything went to ****. Do you seriously think that's all a coincidence? That she was left on Jakku for some reason that's unrelated to those events? That maybe her parents were just sick of her & wanted to get a puppy instead?
What was the massacre about? It was killing the Jedi students in Luke's temple. Coincidentally at this same time she was whisked away to safety. Is it really that hard to connect the dots?

 

No what droids did he build? 1. That is verified in the movies. Him being able to build more is irrelevant since we never see it happen.

She also has a vision of cloud city where Luke and Vader had the first duel which you so conveniently forgot. Her visions may not all have been her own. But then this brings up the whole light saber giving visions. Which never happened in the 2 trilogies that came before. So all that visions from a light saber and even more ridiculous the fact that it "called out to her" really makes say WTF is going on here? So all those visions may not have been hers by the fact that she saw the interior of cloud city where she never even been before.

Just like Anakin having visions of Padme during the child birth which Anakin was never there to witness.

I can't comment about the vision sequence in it's entirety because it was all stuff that was jumbled together and didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But that is just me. If you seen it differently, good for you. But the whole shot of her standing in a part of cloud city throws it all off considering she never been there. So was she actually present at all the events in the vision sequence? I know some she was. But all of them? I don't think she was.

 

Of course not, it was a combination of visions & memories. We also see her as a young child. The point is when you combine this with the other points, ie the line in the novel, the timing of her being abandoned, Maz telling her Luke is someone who could come back for her, then it's obvious that it's all a very strong likelihood. It also, to some degree explains her abilities. Which is exactly why you're so against the idea. It detracts somewhat from the Mary-Sue criticism that you're such a fan of.

 

Well I haven't read the novel so I really can't really comment on that. But from the info I have heard about the novel, some of that info would have really benefitted the film greatly. It's a shame it wasn't. Because the little I heard about the novel I actually liked. So I may actually check it out to get better details that the film seemed to have left out.

 

I haven't read it either but that line was a standout that was reported at the time. The author didn't just make it up out of nowhere. He got that from Lucasfilm. It has to be a strong clue that Rey has an important history. That Kylo realised she was someone from the past & someone of significance.

 

Well yeah I won't deny the importance of Rey. She is obviously strong in the force. But my issue is that if she actually didn't have training according to Kylo and was able to go Super Saiyan out of nowhere, I will be extremely disappointed. But I have already stated that I am willing to give episode 8 a chance. My opinion on TFA not withstanding.

I just hope they can flesh out these characters a little better in future installments.