PT Prequel nostalgia. Yes, it's a real thing.

Yep, Captain Phasma is very space opera.

I'm pleased with what we're seeing (except for a bit of an eyeroller with the Han and Chewie shot), my concern is the naivete will be gone, and breeziness replaced with an overemphasis on emotionalism.

 

I'd say that is more or less a given. The 2nd trailer alone shows as much. Again, contemporary.

 

Well, I knew something was wrong when everyone was talking about crying, and weeping and wailing, beating their breasts at the Han/Chewie shot and I was just nonplussed. Curious. Maybe I am just finally getting old.

 

As someone who distinctly remembers the time period leading up to the release of The Phantom Menace, I can tell you that emotional reactions to SW trailers/movies is by no means a new thing, nor is it a bad thing. It's easy to forget, in the face of all of the perceived negativity that's crept into the public consciousness in the 16 years since TPM was first released, that initial reactions to the film were overwhelmingly emotionally positive (which they were).

 

And yet...

If George Lucas had more obviously been the one to come up with it, you can bet there would have been loud expressions of incredulity and mockery.

Don't forget how many names were picked over in the prequels, from the titles "The Phantom Menace" and "Attack Of The Clones" (I'll concede not so much "Revenge Of The Sith" -- but not so surprising, given that that one was kinda concocted to juice people up), to character names like Jar Jar, Anakin (or at least "Ani"), Padme (too soft and silly some fans used to say), Shmi, General Grievous, Count Dooku, Nute Gunray, Dexter Jettster, Naboo, and even the fact that "Darth" was rendered into a recurring rank or title.

Now, however, you're not hearing any criticism whatsoever -- even for a collection of names (Rey? Finn? Kylo Ren?) that might have raised an eyebrow or two in a fanbase that used to be un-shy about demeaning practically anything Lucas came up with. I'm not even going to call any of the new names bad. It's an interesting turnaround, 'tis all.

Yes. It's that bludgeoning effect -- a sort of trumped-up, hyper-charged, "be sad or shocked about this!", ice-cream-scoop approach to emotion -- that a lot of contemporary films use to elicit... feeling? It almost feels wrong to use that word; it, er, feels, too subtle a word to describe such overt manipulation and the resultant effect. But it's definitely there in the new trailer, in my opinion. Straight out of the J.J. Abrams play-book.

 

Not only that Cryogenic... But the whole reception of the Chrome Stormtrooper itself is indicative of the hypocritical nature of Star Wars fandom. Stormtroopers and to the larger degree the Empire were certain colors for very specific reasons. The color coding of the Empire and the fact that they all looked the same, dressed the same and there faces remained hidden was part of the story of Star Wars. The Empire was about no individuality, no humanity. Their colors, black, white, were about the mechanical coldness in which they operated. They were the machine, no one stood out as an individual, unless you were an officer (even then you wore the same uniform, just didn't have your face hidden).

With the Chrome Stormtrooper, you have just the opposite now, you have someone that is a stormtrooper, but, they stand out amongst the others. Because of this, the Chrometrooper stands out as only being in the movie because it was something that looked cool. It deviates from the story that the look of the original stormtroopers told into something else. It deviates from the "real" Star Wars, you know that "real" Star Wars that everyone wants Star Wars to get back too...

So are those fans tearing JJ apart because of the new ChromeTrooper? Hell no, they are eating it up, they think it's awesome.

However, if Lucas had done this, well the Star Wars fandom would be going nuts! The internet would be over run with comments on how Lucas only wants to "sell toys" of a cool looking figure, and how he is getting away from his own story...

Just absolute garbage if you ask me!

 

Didn't fans love the bright red Imperial Guard when they first appeared? Still "faceless" but stand out.

 

But they were their own group, just like the tie fighter pilots wore different armor. Lucas just didn't use stormtrooper armor and paint if black. Just like Biker Scouts got different armor, no one stood out in their respective group, unless you were an officer, in which you got a silly shoulder pauldron, not an entire new paint job.

The imperial guards were a different group from the Stormtroopers, and for that reason they got an entirely new set of armor (a new look), they didn't get red stormtrooper armor. They got red, because again, part of the empire's color scheme was about red too, red symbolizing anger, hate, blood etc.

The Chrometrooper is just chromed stormtrooper armor, it shows they stand out from the normal stormtrooper, they stand out past their group they are an indivdual. It screams to me that they (JJ and crew) wanted something cool, but, didn't have the thought process to carry their imagination past the stormtroopers and make new armor. So what they have done is messed with a pretty important part (an important part to me anyway) of the Star Wars mythology.

 

True - he did use a TIE helmet and paint it differently, for the AT-AT pilot though.

The pics I've seen of the chrometrooper make the helmet look noticably different from the helmets of the rest of the troopers. And another picture has even more variation from the norm.

Compare to the standard troopers, whose helmets lack that centre strip across the dome:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/stormtroopers-here.50016967/page-77

 

C'mon now Iron, you know there is a huge difference between concept art and what we see in the film. Those images below the actual pic from the trailer are all concept. The Helmet of the chrometrooper from the trailer looks exactly the same to me. To me there is no strip across the top of the dome, what I think we are seeing is a reflection from the sorrunding environment because it is not actually centered on the dome like in the concept art. So it's an optical illusion influenced by what we see in the concept art.

My feelings still stand, if they (JJ and crew) wanted to make a new type of more specialized commando stormtrooper, they could have easily done so by making new armor for them, just like they did with the flame trooper and snowtrooper. Instead, at least in my opinion, it reeks of laziness to just take a stormtrooper, make it chrome like it's a part of a motorcycle, then pass it off as new and cool, and in doing so not understanding a part of the mythology of Star Wars

Edit: I just wanted to add, I am not against the look of a chrome bad guy for the movie, I am just against a chrome stromtrooper that messes with the mythology of the OT.

 

Good points here.

Watching that part of the trailer again just now; and what I notice...

That segment of the trailer features a series of rapid shots all of which contain highly derivative visual information and tropaic imagery:

- A shot of a Star Destroyer (or close cousin) looming right-left in the background; with several other ships, including a shuttle with 45-degree wings, flying toward it. Obviously designed to subliminally remind the viewer of TESB: the "best" of the OT. That dissolves to...

- A shot of the chrome trooper strutting forward, rifle in hand, not unlike Boba Fett (and which OT installment does he play a critical role in?). In the background lurks obvious Imperial/Death Star lighting panels. That dissolves to...

- Newcomer BB-8 peeking round a corner and acting a bit like Artoo on Tatooine (hiding from the Tuskens/encountering Ben) or Dagobah (spying through the little window of Yoda's hut) inside of what is obviously the Millennium Falcon, identifiable by both wall decals and a shot of its ladder system, which is also illuminated by a green fluorescent light. A fade-to-black resolves to...

- A shot of the new girl (should I identity her? or *spoilers*?) having a wind-swept expression on a desert planet; a shot that is practically identical to that famous shot of Luke looking aghast at the smouldering corpses of his aunt and uncle.

Pow, pow, pow!

Talk about cramming the new teaser with things you've seen before -- just a bit different.

And to return to your posts, I agree with you about the souped-up feel of that stand-alone trooper. It strikes me as not dissimilar to the rather pimped-up Enterprise design Abrams went with in the "Star Trek" movies. Or Admiral Marcus' ship which was ridiculously super-sized, with stupidly big (and very impractical) guns, and didn't really convey much personality beyond "deadly black ship". It seems to be something Abrams is fond of: gimmick "upgrades" that come from street-racing culture and MTV.

Now cast your mind to all that new stuff in the TPM teaser: Queen Amidala and Theed, her magnificent chrome spacecraft, Jar Jar, podracing, Coruscant, the Jedi Council chambers, the look of Qui-Gon and a young Obi-Wan, battle droids, the yellow N-1 starfighter, the flying blue walrus that is Watto, Gungans marching through the mist, Darth Maul appearing between the blast doors, the Jedi and Maul locked in combat in the reactor room, lasers firing all over the place in a palatial shoot-out... so much unique and inventive imagery; which only continued with AOTC and ROTS.

They just don't make 'em like they used to.

 

I wish I could like y our post a thousand times, all things I noticed too!

However, there is more, the woo-hoo bellowed by the x-wing pilot (I will leave out his name in case of spoilers) and Han's scream of joy in ANH. Lets see how the two scenes match up when TFA comes out...

Then there was the obvious Falcon flying through the infrastructure of the downed Super Star Destroyer, which matched up with ROTJ...

But don't worry, JJ is making a "new" Star Wars...?

 

You could also include things like the Vader helmet (over which there is a slow, deliberate, craning close-up), a particular lightsaber being handed from one character to another, right as a rather notorious line from ROTJ plays with an ominous inflection, the opening shot (which I went over in a post from yesterday), and various other re-uses or regurgitations designed to resonate (a bunch of which I also addressed, or mentioned, yesterday).

Seriously, there isn't much that's brand new in the new teaser. "New" teaser is almost a misnomer here. It's more like a re-heated casserole. And not one that nourishes a great deal. I mean, BB-8 is probably the most original and memorable design in either of the teasers; at least, in my opinion. And I won't beat down on that little guy too much, but I am slightly put in mind of "Wall-E" (apologies for not using the interpunct >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WALL-E ), for what that's worth. At least, after the Celebration panel, and the sound that little thing makes. Not that that makes it regrettable. Threepio and Artoo aren't completely original, either. Nothing in Star Wars is. But such defences begin to miss the point.

And who laid down the whole concept of droids with strange personalities and impish quirks and mannerisms in the first place? You guessed it: George Lucas (with estimable assistance from Ben Burtt and Anthony Daniels). Do we hear credit about that today? People act like anything great or interesting in Star Wars happened in spite of Lucas, not because of him. And now people are using that little presentation of a "real" and "working" BB-8 to perversely prove how superior the whole TFA project is; what a break from the digital, inhuman madness of Lucas. Who did more to support his performers and make Star Wars tactile and tangible than Lucas? It's gotten a little silly. The deliberate confusion of authentic making-of history; the slamming of Lucas' choices in the prequels as ridiculous or inane; and how uncritically adored this new teaser (with so much plundered imagery) already is.

JMO, mind you. I did say I was happy that people are pleased with the new teaser. The gaping disparity, and all those double standards, are quite interesting, however.

 

Also, the talk of the Chrome Trooper reminded me of something else...

How one of the the things that so many OT purists loved about the OT, it's used and lived in feel (which is only a half truth btw*). So many people love the OT because it showed a sci-fi world that wasn't all shiny and sparkly and new. So what does JJ do? He makes a nice, shiney, sparkly, clean looking Chrome covered trooper....

What is really funny about this, is when Cryogenic brought up the the Queen's Chrome Ship, one of the biggest complaints about it, it was chrome covered and didn't fit in with the Star Wars universes lived in look.... lol... ugh...

*The OT having the lived in and used look is only a half truth. The Empire and it's ships and locations do not have that look. The Empire always has a clean and sterile look. The Rebels have the used look because Lucas wanted to convey the feeling that they were using older weapons and machinery, that they were kinda of just patch working everything together. That message didn't need to be shown in the PT... However, Lucas did make sure to show that the Star Wars Galaxy was being used and because of the Clone Wars things weren't being maintained as they should have. If you look at the Jedi Council Chambers, you will see that from AOTC to ROTS, there is obvious issues with the maintenance of the room. Lucas did this on purpose. When it comes to Tatooine, it was obvious that it would always have a used and worn down look because of it's harsh environment, something portrayed in both trilogies. However, OT purists still want to say that the OT has that lived in look and the PT doesn't, something that is not entirely true...

 

I've deleted them for the sake of tidiness, but what those shots immediately make me long for -- your pointing out of key aesthetic details aside -- is the clarity, brilliance, and generosity of Lucas' compositional style. His framing (in all his movies) is simply awesome, in my opinion.

A more striking sense of infantilization with the TFA trailer imagery, in my view, is that things actually look quite basic and simplistic. Take the X-Wing cockpit shot you mentioned with the cowboy jeer. If you have access to the trailer, pause it and look around in that moment. The cockpit is profoundly un-detailed; and so is the pilot's chest box. There isn't a true sense of grime, disrepair, crinkledness, brittleness, or muckiness to anything. Even the cockpit frame is very chunky. You can't imagine it giving way so easily; you can't perceive the pilot to be in the same danger or giving up so much to face such stomach-churning odds. It's more like he's in a clean, arcade-game version of an X-Wing cockpit. In the Battle of Yavin, at least, Lucas also used very specific, off-centre framing; which creates visual tension and intrigue. But this pilot is framed in a very strait-laced, correct way; again, you lose that funky, loose, beat-up quality that the makers claim is all over TFA.

You can dissect other shots/frames in a similar fashion. Give it a try.

Personally, I think Lucas pulled it off so well in the original movie that for anyone to claim they've recaptured the same feel is arrogant, bordering on delusional.

And then, of course, it's also something of a lie. A "noble" lie -- as Plato proposed -- to deceive and control the unruly masses with.

This is more likely going to be a half-assed simulacrum of the OT and everything people believed made those films great. For anyone truly looking, it won't pass the taste test.

Just some more thoughts on this. And I said I'd be gagging myself. Damn, Cryo...

 

Lol at you two

 

What?! We're Star Wars nerds.

 

Some more good points Cryo! I would much prefer to see Lucas doing this than JJ. I was not overly impressed with Super 8 or any of the Star Trek movies, even though I prefer Into Darkness over the first one, which I believe is reverse the norm.

I would just like to clarify a couple things though, for the most part I like the trailer, and still hold out hope the movie will be good, and I can get past all the nods and OT copying scenes. I would be lying if I said I didn't get tears in my eyes when Han said to Chewbacca that they were home. Even though in that scene it is copying a scene from ANH, however, the nostalgia of seeing Han and Chewie did get to me because I am an OT fan as well. There will be obvious links between the OT and the ST, but, as I and Cryo have been saying, it's the over the top continuous recreating of OT shots that we have already seen in the trailer(s) that are just making me roll my eyes. It is not needed. It can still be Star Wars, but not have to recreate the same exact thing from the OT just to appease a certain segment of fans. The PT is great because it was different, Lucas didn't try to recreate every shot with an OT filter to it, however, there were nods to the OT.

I feel all this negativity about the new trailer makes me want to point out something that I really really liked about the trailer...

This image..!



This is a great image IMO, this to me evokes a sense of Star Wars without necessarily copying a specific scene. Part of Star wars that hits home to us is the recreation of themes that we recognize (unconsciously) and then makes it part of the Star Wars mythology. Part of the original Star Wars was the Empire's connection to our history and that of Nazi Germany. So this image above right away hit a chord with me because who can'y make the connection between that image and this:



So I still hold out hope that the JJ is smart enough to realize that just recreating scenes from the OT isn't going to be good enough for all of us and he understands that there is a mythology to Star Wars!

 

I'm pleased with the trailers (the first was better). I'm excited about the movie. I'm not worried about J.J.

I am weary of this "return to a used universe" conversation. For several reasons.

1. The OT had a glorious mix of polished, new, and shiny, and dusty dirty grimy scratched and gritty.

2. So did the PT.

3. Now, get this: as evidenced by the trailers alone.......dun dun dunnnnn....so does TFA.

Maybe episodes 8&9 will have a pure return to dusty dirty grimy scratched and gritty, but until then let's stop with this nonsensical talk of the glorious return of the used universe.

It was never all used and beat up. Star Wars Mythmaking, my people. Stop the memes and learn to see.

 

To me one of the funnier things about the dusty frontier obsession is that in the original Star Wars Luke desperately wanted to get away from Tatooine. From the very beginning the notion that there was indeed more to experience in the universe was a driving force of the narrative.

 

I agree with you, however, there is a large segment of the Star Wars fandom that chooses to believe something that is untrue... Take this for example, on the first day of Celebration Disney/LFL put 4 people from various media outlets onto their live feed to give a frame by frame commentary. Can you believe that we couldn't get through it without at least one dig at the PT? A dig that isn't even true... Go to 2:04:30... Where the guy on the left claims that he wants to point out the "lived in world that was missing from the prequels"...
Because you know there were no scenes from the Prequels that showed "lived in" conditions when the story dictated there be "lived in" conditions. But, these guys are legitimized because they are reporters or work for media outlets... pfft...

 

Completely agree. I mean, nobody can tell me that this isn't "shiny/new":

 

Or that this doesn't look 'lived-in':

 

It's called confirmation bias. I don't think it's treatable.

 

Or, on the subject of the thread, how about Anakin's bedroom? that is extremely lived in and speaking of nostalgia it's one of the first images from TPM that really got me excited about the movie.

The birthplace of the shiny droid, the shiny protocol droid.