Prequel Script Writing quality: The whole debate

It just goes to show how much we're all alike. Bashers all thought the general public were "yokels" for going back to see TPM again and again. Now the fans love AOTC so much they're baffled by the "troglodytes who just don't get it."

Just as snickering in the theaters doesn't prove anything, "works for me!" is not an argument that the writing is good.

It's so hard to argue about writing quality.

"I do not like this idea of hiding." On its face, it's clunky. Three extra words for no good reason. "I do not like hiding, Anakin." much better. Even: "I do not like the idea of hiding."

"Maybe with merely your presence this mystery will be revealed." Another clunky, unnecessary inversion of words. Lucas shooting for a formalized style but misfiring. Plus it's a nonsensical formulation. the mystery is already revealed. What needs to be revealed is the solution to the mystery.

"Perhaps your presence alone will reveal who is behind this mystery."

It's easy to retain a formal senatorial style without butchering the language.

Wow, improving the writing of the AOTC dialogue is a bit like taking candy from a baby.

 

Either way, you're entitled to your opinion, and I've given you the reasons for mine - but back it up with actual criticism, and not the reactions of a bunch of yokels at your local cinema.

I *have* responded, multiple times in multiple threads, and I don't feel like doing a ton of reposting now. Ultimately, of course, it comes down to subjective opinion. I found the romantic angle horribly stiff at times (and great in others), but flawed overall.

I urge you to go see the movie. Relax. Sit back and enjoy. Laugh at the cheesy parts (I did), enjoy the over-the-top unrealistic effects (I did), and see it for what it has always been. Star Wars.

I did. I enjoyed it. However, that doesn't stop me from discussing or examining the criticisms I have of the film.

 

Edit: Nevermind.

 

"works for me!" is not an argument that the writing is good

That wasn't my arguement - if you'd actually read what I wrote, you'd see that I've made concrete examples here, and in other threads about why the romance dialogue works for me.

Again - if you would actually read what people write instead of picking certain sentence fragments to further your argument, you wouldn't have much left to say then, would you...

Bashers all thought the general public were "yokels" for going back to see TPM again and again. Now the fans love AOTC so much they're baffled by the "troglodytes who just don't get it."

I merely said that I never heard anyone laugh at this theatre... I frankly don't care who liked and didn't like AOTC or TPM for that matter, but if you're going to present a weak argument, I will poke holes in it...

All those lines that you point out are no worse than many of the lines of the OT - and keep this in mind (I know you won't, but I keep trying) would you talk to your boss the same way you talk to your little brother? Would you talk to a high ranking government official the same way you would talk to your closest friends?

I would think not - hence the strange 'diplomatic formal' talk Amidala and Anakin share - but if you notice (and I know you won't) that when they're more comfortable with each other, they don't seem so formal in their dialogue... but I'm sure you'll ignore these points too - the same way you ignore EVERYTHING else I've said that's not convenient to your 'bashing' mentality...

I *have* responded, multiple times in multiple thread

Telemachos: I was referring to Jabbadabadoo -not you...

 

One of the most refreshing surprises of the movie was that Padme was able to finish her long-winded "truly, deeply love you" speech before the arena monsters devoured her. I didn't expect that at all.

 

And this is why you are a troll...

 

"You will never go to a showing of AOTC where there aren't quite a few people giggling at the attocious writing of this scene."

That's funny, Jabba. I've seen AOTC 3 times, and I've never heard anyone laugh at the dialogue during the romance scenes. Anakin's dream on the other hand . . .

I agree with you that the fireplace scene is way too awkward and stilted. But the rest of the film is full of good, or at least serviceable, dialogue. We all sense it, why can't you? I will quote the whole film at you if I have to

 

I agree Prof Frink


When it comes down to it, I just dont care to argue with the people who bash the PT anymore. I love it, I know tons of people here love it, so what do I have to prove to them? I just dont care.

If I cared enough, I would go through each movie line by line and provide at least 200 examples of how the OT and the PT have similar dialogue and style. Then I would go point by point on how the story and writing of AOTC is superior to any of the other movies. Personally, I love ESB. It still ranks as my top Star Wars movie with AOTC just close behind, but its not the writing or the dialogue or direction that makes it better for me, cause IMO they are all on par in one way or another, its the spotlight on Vader which shows what he has become and what his motivation is. - same goes for Yoda, Luke...etc.

But all in all, I think to say AOTC is just a disaster as far as writing, dialogue, acting goes is just over the top. Take a look at some other go getters like Mark Hamill, and then get back to me. Dont think Hayden was good? Dont think he convinced you about Anakin's emotional struggle? Then buddy I feel sorry for you, cause regardless of what you may say, its one of the best performances in Star Wars, end of story. McGreggor's Obi Wan is brilliant, end of story. - compare that to Luke and say, Admiral Piett...

Whatever, my arguement is too tattered to hold any ground, but I dont care, I dont have the time to argue a point in which I dont care what other people think.

 

I've seen aotc twice, the first time I was so hyped I loved it all, the second time without the rabid fans in the audience the atomsphere was quite different. Its a summer popcorn flick, the dialogue shows that but anyways, somebody said something about people making comments during the movie about how bad the dialogue+acting was, well in the fireplace scene where anakin is trying oh so hard for padme, he starts talking about pain or some other nonsense, which I can't even imagine anyone saying, but everyone in the theater knew he just wanted to have sex with her I come on....and some people started snickering 'bull****,' I thought it was funny at the time b/c that scene is so God awful, but jabba is right the dialogue could have been written BETTER by seventh graders more than likely point in case that the script ulimately falls flat on its face while the visuals are stunning as usually in the movie. Go buy the Art of Attack of the Clones, there's about 170 pages devoted to concept art, and 30 for the script, hmmmmmmmm probably why the dialogue sucks, it was the least cared for part of the movie.

 

That's strange, a book titled "The Art of Star Wars Episode 2 : Attack of the Clones" and most of it is ... drawings!

How can that be?!?! I'm going to return it!

* A lot of the drawings are not even colored, what a piece of crap!!!

 

Dialogue,Dialogue,Dialogue...Wow!!
I think you people really don't
understand what Star Wars is supposed
to be. Next time you see a star wars
movie, Sit back, Relax, Find the kid
barried deep within your overly cynical
authoritative adult soul, and smile because
you are about to go to a galaxy far away
full of the magic dreams are made of.

That's if you can get time off from those
intense acting classes you've been taking!

 

My overly cynical soul growls at you. The bitter bile that I carefully ferment at the slightest mention of the PT gurgles forth.

Bah! Humbug!

 

Then I would go point by point on how the story and writing of AOTC is superior to any of the other movies. JBFETT

Ok, now you are really pushing it.

 

am i really.....challenge me!

 

Who is Jabbadobado dating so that he doesn't get banned. It's really beyond me. All I have to say is respect our opinions buddy! You are arrogant to say that our opinions are wrong and it's very insulting for you to say that we are all lying about people we know loving the film. Im not lying, and neither are others who have said it. I know people that snickered in ESB btw. Get a grip.

 

Well, dammit, I've been ten times - yes, ten bloody times - and not ONCE has anybody laughed at the romantic dialogue. In point of fact, during the first couple of weeks, I actually heard people sniffling after Shmi died. No basher will believe that, but I swear I really did. It surprised me. I doubt people would just manufacture tears, ya know?

Also, this Anakin under the covers thing ... that's absurd. I mean, really. Bashers act like they are having the fireside chat, then he cuts to Anakin laying in bed moaning. No. We go to Kamino first. I would never, ever have thought of it as masturbating if I watched it 400 times. I think that says more about the mentality of the audience than anything.

And Jabbadabbado is a competent basher, and sometimes even a fair one. Much better than some. I could name names, but they simply aren't many around. I for one find that hilarious. Does anyone remember the TPM boards three years ago at this time?! LOL. World War Three will look tame. My god, bashers are so few and far between this time on the net I hardly even pay any attention to them. I come here because I enjoyed AOTC so much, and so did most fans. There is no need to defend, and quite frankly, this time, there's simply nothing TO defend.

I'm glad, because last time frankly sucked.

BTW, Jabba, where is Quaff Down and Darth Warrick and all the old bashers? I thought they would have been here by now.

 

hahahhha

love you sig btw

 

I've been six times, no one has ever laughed at the dialogue. Like acting, dialogue is subjective, despite what other people might try to tell you. But let's just take this for an example:

What planet do we live on? That's right, Earth. Do we have any "spaceships?" In our bars, do you see hammerhead aliens and twilek patrons? Could a lightsabre ever exist? The answer to all those questions is, of course, no. Star Wars is a fantasy, set in a different galaxy, and the way they talk cannot be held up to our own speech. If you have to ask why, you don't know film. But you say this argument isn't deep enough. Follow me then.

If you were to take Shakespearean dialogue and set it in modern time, it could not work (unless the setting was "hyper-realistic," such as Baz Luhrman's interpretation of Romeo and Juliet). By that token, you could not take Star Wars dialogue and set it in modern time. This includes OT dialouge ("I'd just as soon kiss a wookie." "Yes, your worshipness."). Therefore, since you say PT dialogue is bad because people "do not talk that way," then you are saying Shakespearean and OT dialogue is bad as well. But wait, you cry! Shakespeare works because it was his own time period. Wow, exactly, this is GL's time period in a completely new and exotic setting. Therefore, the dialogue can be much more poetic and proper (yes, the love scenes are very poetic, listen to them again) as long as they fit into that time period. Someone saying "I do not like this idea of hiding" would not work in modern times, but what if you were to take that same piece of dialogue and put it in a medieval movie. Say, Gwyneviere to Lancelot. It would work, no?

Just because the dialogue is expository does not make it clunky. What you would say is clunky, I would call proper. The acting you say is stilted, I would say is regal. BTW, if you think Hayden's Anakin is stilted, you are not watching the same movie as I am.

This is why film is subjective. There is no final word. Just because YOU think the dialogue sounds better does not mean it actually does. Regardless of what people would have you think, "it works for me" is undoubtably a valid point. A Beautiful Mind didn't work for me (it's script was not up to par, way too cheesy, but it won the academy award, so go figure... the writer, btw, also wrote Batman and Robin). It did for the academy. In the end, it's your own personal preference, so if it works for you, that's good. If it doesn't, that's fine too. But there is no final word.

 

I have been somewhat critical of the romance dialogue in AOTC. However no one in the theater laughed at this dialogue in any of my 5 viewings.

I must confess that I seemed to be the only one in theater that had hard time keeping from laughing when Anakin says "I can't breathe..." during the infamous fireplace scene.

 

Jedi-Jeff, I find that piece of dialogue and delivery to be extremely powerful. But like I said, it's subjective. I simply love it, but I respect that you do not.

 

Jedi-Strider

I want clarify that I really liked AOTC, but only have some criticisms with some of the romance dialogue. In spite of this, I generally bought into the romance.

 

Yo, I think we all have come to the conclusion that Geroge Lucas is a bad writer, producer, and director. His movies have been horrible for a while, ever since Howard the Duck. He's a great business man, though.

 

But see ... that was great!

"I can't breathe."

I mean, VADER! Come on!

Hello, McFly!

Breath is very important to mythology. Breath is the life force itself. The Hebrew word is "nephesh," and it has all kinds of symbolic associations. It is after all what Yaweh used to animate all of Creation in Judaic doctrine. That Anakin is eventually deprived of that essential element as Vader is very telling. I mean, after he loses Padme, he won't be able to breathe!

God, I love that movie.

 

Oh yeah he needs to realize his market is no longer 7 year olds. we are people in our 20's and 30's.

 

Ded-man:

Thank you for the interesting post. I never thought of it quite like that. The main reason I found the "I can't breathe..." kind of amusing was that Vader literally has problems breathing in the OT. Of course this may also be a bit of foreshadowing by Lucas concerning Anakin's future.