Prequel Script Writing quality: The whole debate

prof_frink I think most of your comments should actually be directed at abmccray, Rupert_Pupkin, or Gilgamesh2 rather than Jabbadabbado all the time.

 

I have to agree with you there. Although the trench was there for other purposes. In hindsite that fight could have been handled better, but hey, it was all new to everyone. But reversing an exhaust port is slightly more beleivable that Anakin's little jaunt.

In ROTJ they fighters had to break off because of Death Star sheilds being up. And the bridge of the SuperStar destroyer was only hit after the sheilds had been destroyed. Yet all the Naboo pilots complained their fighters didn't have the power to take out the sheilds, yet little Anni dives right into the landing bay.

If you watch closely when Anakin flies into the droid control ship's hanger, you'll see that several droid fighters leave the hanger at that moment, and so presumably the shield over the hanger was dropped briefly to allow the droids to launch.

And Anakin didn't "accidentally" destroy the droid control ship. As someone once said, "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."

 

I'm sorry about the whole thing - I'll drop it...

I'm letting this jabbadabadoo thing die...

 

hehe....that was nice of you!

 

Ded Man,

Somene else something similiar to this in another thread. Anytime we nitpick something, or point out a contridiction, someone else has to pull the "mythology" card.

Mythology is no excuse for bad writing. Mainly in this thread we have just been comparing. No one has been "bashing"

Sometimes the funn gets sucked out of here, cause I can't sit down and play pseudo intellectual without someone calling me a basher. It is just as much of a relevent question to ask why gushers come to the form as bahsers. If you think it is the Greatest Story Ever Told then why bother coming here and discussing it.

I've been a fan of SW since 1977, and I have read tons of Mythology. All of it wasn't good.

 

that is your opinion.
You proved your own point.

 

It is just as much of a relevent question to ask why gushers come to the form as bahsers. If you think it is the Greatest Story Ever Told then why bother coming here and discussing it.

And I don't think it's the 'greatest story EVER told. I love Star Wars, I love the whole 'fantasy' feel to it - I love the stories, I love the characters...

Are there flaws? Yes - I'm not brain dead, I see them - but I can look past them for the greater good. If I enjoy 95% of the movie, but 5% has some groaner moments - that's easily overlooked in my eyes.

Some people can't look past it - and then that's when I wonder - why? Why keep torturing yourself with something you don't enjoy... I don't blindly defend Star Wars, but if you're not going to convince me that the writing in these prequels are any better or worse than the OT - they all have the same vibe to me...

Mainly in this thread we have just been comparing. No one has been "bashing"

Really? Let's review - here are some quotes from throughout the thread - if this isn't bashing - what is?

I have seen High School drama that was more convincing

I happen to believe that a committee comprised solely of second-graders with ADD could have written better dialogue. I wouldn't be surprised if 8 year olds ultimately have a better grasp of young love than George Lucas.

Rick McCallum: "Looks great to me George!"

But the dialogue just stinks. I laugh every time someone mentions "good job" as a quotable line from AOTC. That's how deep people are digging to try to find something original, memorable, and good in this movie's script.

If you are referring to the vehicle / mechanical designs, most of the new ones are pretty stupid.

That rickshaw is the worst yet

It fails its essential narrative purpose: to make us believe in the relationship. People laugh at this scene. You will never go to a showing of AOTC where there aren't quite a few people giggling at the attocious writing of this scene.

One of the most refreshing surprises of the movie was that Padme was able to finish her long-winded "truly, deeply love you" speech before the arena monsters devoured her. I didn't expect that at all.

b/c that scene is so God awful, but jabba is right the dialogue could have been written BETTER by seventh graders

Yo, I think we all all have come to the conclusion that Geroge Lucas is a bad writer, producer, and director

So - I'm going to repeat something I said earlier in the post:

And so the point remains - if you are not enjoying these prequels, don't watch them - all your complaining won't change a thing - they are what they are. You're OT movies are just a VCR away, put those in, enjoy them and ignore the PT...

 

"Why you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy looking, Nerf-herder!"

What ever happened to the good old days when Lucas was on fire with Oscar caliber writing he displayed in ESB?

Wow, the quote above is so eloquent and moving. So much better than the farce GL calls dialog in AOTC.

 

Are you being sarcastic? Because, I actually think that the ESB script, even some of the banter between Han and Leia, flow much more smoothly. It's something you can still quote with pleasure, even though it might be a little hoaky.

 

And there are lines from the prequels that I like quoting...

I've always loved Jar-Jar's line 'Steady...'

Or how about: "You're going to be the death of me"

"I'm just a simple man, trying to make his way around the universe"

"Don't think, feel"

"Credits will do fine"

"This is my aprentice, Darth Maul"

"We move in together - you slowly on the..."
"I'm taking him now!"

"I love democracy..."

Anyway - this is all subjective - I liked it, others won't - I have quotable lines from TPM and AOTC, others think it's drivel -it's an endless circle...

 

"Anyway - this is all subjective - I liked it, others won't - I have quotable lines from TPM and AOTC, others think it's drivel -it's an endless circle..."

That's what I said in my first post in this thread. And you thought we couldn't agree on anything.

 

You know Jabba, deep down I think I like you, like when GI Joe and Cobra commander HAD to work together - but then Cobra screwed them in the end...

I have no idea what I'm talking about...

 

Ok, TPM in my opinion dragged in alot of places and the only really good part was seeing the jedi fight in their prime. AOTC was an awesome movie and really makes me want to see it more and more. So Lucas is 1 and 1 for the prequels so far. The script writing though, he explains more and more about the history of the characters the fans have been wanting for some time now, example: Boba Fett's past. The script writing couldnt have been more thought out. Think about what you said, "Prequel Script Writing..." The fact he thought about actually having prequels means good script writing, he knows the fans, children and yuong adults, and gave them what he thought they wanted.

 

PT gushers specialize in taking the most inane aspects of the PT and turning them into grand mythological strategies on the part of the director - so I have no doubt that someone somewhere has made the fart joke you mentioned into a mythological example of "symbolizing the expelling of fear that is inside Jar Jar" or some such nonsense.

Never heard/read that one, so I guess I'll have to look around for it, and it would be good for a laugh or two. I know why the fart joke was there.. but we'll keep it between us, ok? HUMOR, it's suppsed to be funny. You thought it was stupid? Oh well, tough! It's already there and GL made this for his son and for folks like me, I'm so sorry you weren't included. His son liked the joke and it stayed. I knew the koke was there for kids and heck, I snickered the first time I saw so, oh well. Hey, I got an idea though. Let's just totally ignore the TWO totally 80's burp jokes from ROTJ because those are just sanctified territory! I suppose they were serving a greater mythologoical purpose? Puh-leeze! <BURP!>

Not to mention that just because someone has attempted to insert certain mythological archetypes into a film, it does not follow that the characterizations work well in the film. And certainly labeling some aspect of the film as mythology doesn't excuse it from being badly done - as some PT gushers would have believe. Jar Jar bumbling around taking up too much screen time is exactly that - regardless of any mythological strategy on the part of the director.

Agreed! Having mythos in a film doesn't make it cool at all. Remember, however that you don't like Jar Jar, so for you he can't possibly be good no matter what people say he represents ir what signifigance he has. I like him, and I like his crazy scenes, so i'm sorry but I will always disagree with you and other bashers about it. You're wasting your time with this one.

"Oh - and I didn't say I was "sick" of anything in my post, although you used "sick" and "sickening" in your post. But then you do have a tuff road when it comes to defending Jar Jar. It would give me a headache"

Oops! I'm sorry, I just inferred that you were as sick of hearing it as I was of hearing the basher's side. My bad.

I don't have any problems defending a character or movie that I like, because it's easy. I feel worse for you because you have to constantly bash on other's arguments if they like Jar Jar or TPM, knowing it won't do d**n thing to change their minds. You had to make a decision to suck any possible joy out of the film and throw bitter sentiments at folks that don't care. That and the fact that 10 years from now, grown up kids will outnumber you poor bashers by such an awful extreme that it will be impossible to wage a war with them makes me sad for you.

But not too sad.

 

Then I guess any director who plans a sequel should add plenty of kiddy aspects to the film - so as to ensure fans that are not fickle?

If he/she wants a lasting fanbase, then yes, he should. Look at the OT. Kids loved it but talk to adults that saw the OT as kids and ask them what their favorite Star Wars movie is. The answer 90% of the time is ROTJ, the kiddiest film of the saga until TPM (arguably). Is it the best of the OT? Nope, but that doesn't matter at all because it got them as kids and you can't top that kind of impression.

I would reason that at least 80% of us here are folks who saw these films as little kids to pre-teen age. I was, so I know that, and all the guys I've been in line with during the SE's and these two prequels were the same story. They drag their parents out with them to see it, so as far as it reasonating with adults? I dunno about all that stuff. I mean it had impact, but I wouldn't say that the folks that saw the OT at age 18+ are crazy about Star Wars. As my mom always said, they're good for kids to watch.

James Earl Jones: "There are much worse things that these kids could be doing, right?"

I see it now, Coppola could have had Don Corleone make an offer that couldn't be refused - and then offer up a triple fudge sunday No - you don't need to kiddy up a film in order to make it have good fans. Take a look at ANH. It didn't have some kid running around accidentally flipping levers and destroying the central enemy vessel - and yet kids and adults were both able to enjoy it. Well except for you who found it "boring".

Well, I don't like The Godfather so I guess it did need it. If you call it's way lower than Star Wars' BO for it's sequels and it's general dislike of it's third chapter a sign of fan loyalty or quality, then have at it. I don't see Godfather toys flying off the shelves either. You talk about resonation bettween adults and kids, but the example movie you give is so inappropriate for children that it makes no sense to me. Oh well, maybe you can explain it.

Oh, and I said ANH was boring when I was a kid, not anymore though. I like ANH, but it is slow and has a really lame duel. Sorry, but that's important when you're little. Sorry for putting you on the defensive about a Star Wars film you liked. I guess you felt kind of the same way I do when I have to defend TPM from yet another basher. sigh..

 

"Why you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy looking, Nerf-herder!"

What ever happened to the good old days when Lucas was on fire with Oscar caliber writing he displayed in ESB?

Wow, the quote above is so eloquent and moving. So much better than the farce GL calls dialog in AOTC.

Exactly. And also- Hayden and Natalie are NOT Harrison Ford or Carrie Fisher and never WILL be, although I think I like Natalie's atmosphere a tad more than Carries'.

And- people, the script sounds FINE on paper- its when the actors get it and screw it up. In case none of you have read the AOTC script, it's actually well-written, so don't blame anything on the script. In fact, I think the SCRIPT is on par with the rest of the films.

So no, Lucas hasn't gotten any better over the years, but at the same time, he hasn't gotten any worse. If anything, the scripts to the prequels are layed out and plotted better than the originals, IMO.

Don't believe me? Then go read.

 

I am pretty sure that was sarcasm in the post you quoted....sorry you didnt take it as such, and sorry if I am wrong to begin with

 

I don't think the script is that bad. As far as scripts go, TPM or ANH are the worst ones.

However, Lucas, for some reason cut out some of the most important parts of the scripts. I have much of the same problem with AOTC as I do with Alien Resurrection - seeing good scripts ruined by editing and directon.

For instance, Anakin's wacky dialogue lookes good on paper because it is dialogue that you READ or WRITE, not that you say. Nobody gives a 2 hour speech in front of a frieplace without talking. However, you can READ someone doing that. And that's the problem. between script and directing, something went wrong.

And, BTW, the nerfherder line makes perfect sense when taken in context with all of the other references in the OT to fictional things (bantha fodder, etc. etc. etc.). The problem comes if you are mixing modern slang with Star Wars universe slang, IE. "what a drag."

 

Hmm, couple thoughts here...

Let's look at the script as 1) dialogue only and 2) a story as a whole.

On the first account, AOTC is not very good. Certainly not uniformly terrible, but certainly not great. I get a little tired of seeing people write comments like "AOTC was the best movie ever!" My initial reaction to such comments is, hey, I liked AOTC, but how many movies have you ever seen? When you watch movies from lots of different eras and genres, you get a sense of what kinds of incredible dialogue there can be in movies. Try watching films like "His Girl Friday," "Casablanca," "All About Eve." Great, memorable, funny dialogue that puts even the best lines in all five SW movies to shame.

But hey, dialogue alone doesn't make a movie. That's obvious. Shakespeare wrote some of the greatest plays of all time, but all movie adaptations of his plays aren't good. Despite having great dialogue, some of them are still boring and hard to follow. The OT movies, however lovable, have some lines that are utter clunkers. The OT has one advantage--it's such an old friend now that the bad lines (or bad deliveries) are more funny than annoying. But on the whole, the dialogue in the OT was good enough to let the strengths of the story shine through: the action, the emotion, the humor.

Do the PT scripts accomplish the same thing? I'm not so sure. They're not flat out horrible, and they both have some good moments. But I always feel like I'm filling in gaps with my knowledge of the OT. If I watched AOTC without knowing what happened in the OT, I would find it hard to believe Obi-Wan liked Anakin at all. I would have thought the death sticks scene was stupid, not a clever parallel with a good scene in ANH. I would have wondered why on earth Padme would take up with Anakin in the first place. That's a bad sign.

 

Note that "without talking = without stopping" in my last post. Whoops.

 

And- people, the script sounds FINE on paper- its when the actors get it and screw it up. In case none of you have read the AOTC script, it's actually well-written, so don't blame anything on the script. In fact, I think the SCRIPT is on par with the rest of the films.

No, the problem is the script sounds good on paper. Period. Actors don't screw it up, necessarily, not actors/actesses like Portman, Hayden, or McGregor. That is when it comes down to improv. GL is notoriously stiff when it comes adapting. That is why to me, ESB is the best, because Kirshner said, damn the script, make it work. Thus "I love you.... I love you too" was transfromed to "I love you.... I know."

Just as Frank Oz was able to make a large muppet come to life, and believable. So a good actor/actress can make the part. DiNiro isn't good in whatever he does by accident. That is why I wish GL would put the director ship into someone eles hands. he is to controlling. And he isn't apt to take risks.

 

I get a little tired of seeing people write comments like "AOTC was the best movie ever!" My initial reaction to such comments is, hey, I liked AOTC, but how many movies have you ever seen?

A LOT of films. And not just recent movies, I've seen all the classics like Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Lawrence of Arabia, On the Waterfront, African Queen, Sunset Boulevard, etc...
Sorry, to tell you this but films are subjective. Who are you to tell me that AOTC was not the best movie ever? It is to me. No it is not a better "film" than all those classics I listed, but It is a damn good movie and you're not gonna stop me from having my own opinion.

 

YAH!!!

THATS RIGHT!

BACK OFF!!

 

"I'm just a simple man, trying to make his way around the universe"

Although I have been labeled as a "basher," I have to agree that this line is an example of a good line from AOTC. Jango's delivery makes it work, because he's a bit sarcastic and a little over-the-top. Kenobi makes his lines work in a similar way. I think that maybe Morrison and McGregor just decided to make it work, whatever Lucas did or did not say. Those two actors have flair. Padme and Anakin, whoa that doesn't work at all.