PT Prequel's Anakin

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Oct 29, 2012.

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  1. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    It's amazing at how so many STAR WARS fans bought Obi-Wan's description of both the Jedi Order and Anakin so readily.
  2. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Unfortunately, yes, any and all of the "good" and "nice" that WAS Anakin was unfortunately overshadowed by the heavy foreshadowing on AoTC Anakin. And I do blame AoTC for messing up Anakin's characterization (and it wasn't that great for Obi-Wan's, either, IMHO in some ways).

    I don't doubt it when folks point to certain AOTC scenes as "Hey, he's not a __ there." You're right, but I seem to see and remember more of the acting bratty even if he's just insecure traits.

    DRush, it's not that most folks wanted a perfect Anakin. We did not want nor expect that. We wanted enough of the decent man ALONG with SOME foreshadowing to be mourning the choices he took later, not going "how obvious."

    Typing that, I realize my problem: it was too obvious in his on-screen behavior that he was going to sink and sink fast into the dark at the proper cue.

    My more favorable views come from Anakin fans and quite frankly, fanfic, not AoTC which colors my perception badly. I admit it. AoTC is the serpent in the grass for me.
    Cantina Bassist likes this.
  3. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    We did because it was done so convincingly so, and Guinness was so freaking good at breathing heart & soul into his lines, giving them a weight that came off the page. We should not be ridiculed for making assumptions. These ideas were deftly injected into ANH, and they came through in the other episodes as well. But ultimatley the whole thing was a frustrating red herring.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  4. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    The backstory in ANH was retconned by TESB. Originally, Skywalker Sr. and Darth Vader were different people. The former was a good friend of Obi-Wan and his equal in both Jedi standing and experience. The latter was a young, jealous apprentice who murdered Luke's father and other Jedi. That obviously changed when the two separate characters became one, but the contradictions in Anakin's character stayed.
  5. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Didn't bother me, as V and VI turned Obi-Wan into something of an unreliable narrator long before the prequel trilogy appeared. Plus I don't really subscribe to the idea that I have to find characters to be likeable or "easy to relate to" in order to be drawn in by their narrative.
    minnishe likes this.
  6. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I'm the opposite. Without that, I don't see the need to even tell the story, unless the actor is dripping with screen presence.
  7. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I usually watch all three prequels together because I want to see more of an innocent young boy in TPM. I know many ignore him but I think it's a mistake because most of our psychological issues as adults begin in childhood.

    That said, TPM is definitely a missed opportunity for Obi-Wan & Anakin's relationship. And not showing more of the Clone Wars when Anakin is a hero is another issue.
    Cantina Bassist likes this.
  8. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I actually think that it's trying to stay close to the some parts of the backstory is what caused some issues in the narrative, most notably a contradictory personality of Luke's father.

    Exactly. It's necessary in certain situations (if Luke is not likable then the story falls apart). I didn't even expect to like Anakin so I was actually surprised he wasn't a total jerk from the start. He's certainly an interesting character to analyze, which is what I like to do most as a fan.
  9. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He was, just the movie didn't show much.
  10. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    If he really was a good(so good) man, then he would not fall to the Dark Side.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Dec 7, 2012
  11. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    TPM did a good job to show Anakin and Obi Wan actually was not close, that's why he turned to the Dark Side and fought Obi Wan later.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    I don't really agree with that. Plenty of good people make horrible mistakes with even more horrible consequences. That's the way I see Anakin; I think his heart was always in the right place, which is all I need to label a person as "good". I only label a person as "evil" if they were born sociopathic, with no empathy whatsoever, and committed murder and other horrible atrocities just for fun. Anakin in the PT never did that. Even after his turn to the Dark Side, I didn't see him actually enjoying or even believing in what he did.

    And before anyone tries to make the argument that "anakinfan thinks what Anakin did was A-OK because he didn't enjoy it"...don't. Not what I said at all.

    Anakin had some issues--yes, demons--that he couldn't overcome, and that's why he fell. That doesn't mean he was born a bad person. In fact I think that if he weren't innately a good man, ROTJ would have a very different ending.
    minnishe likes this.
  13. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I don't understand why did people buy Obi Wan's words rather than take a look at Anakin/Obi Wan's action.

    In OT

    Anakin fought Obi Wan before, he showed ZERO affection against Obi Wan in all 3 movies, even after he was redeemed he said nothing about Obi Wan, only his Force Ghost stated at Obi Wan for once.

    Obi Wan lied to Luke, saying Vader killed his father to let Luke hate his father and refuse to believe Anakin could be saved, push Luke to kill his father.

    How can you say they once shared great friendship?
  14. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    This scene is a perfect example that Anakin does regret to do what he did

  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    Anakin didn't exactly have enough oxygen to mention Obi-Wan in his dying breath, especially when he was trying to make up for 23 years of lost words for his son within 30 seconds.

    And I wouldn't say he showed "zero" affection for Obi-Wan either; even his comments made in anger ("He's holding me back!") sound like the comments a rebellious teenager might make against his or her parents, and that doesn't mean the teenager doesn't love his or her parents.

    I agree that the prequels don't show nearly enough of Obi-Wan and Anakin's friendship, and that's one aspect of TCW that I really appreciate. But saying that the friendship wasn't there because we didn't see it in four hours of film that tried to cover 13 years of time, I can't agree with.
    minnishe, FARK2005 and Valairy Scot like this.
  16. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Ok, in OT, he and Tarkin killed billions with the Death Star without regret, choked his officers like toys, tortured Han to get information, the only person he showed mercy and love is his children.

    PT Anakin did such thing? before turned to the Dark Side, he killed those sand people because they tortured and killed his mother. Even after he turned, he still showed regret after killed CIS's leaders.

    He was not pure evil in PT, far from it. Sure he got flaw, that's cared his loved ones way too much, even could do horrible things to save them. And the Jedi totally didn't encourage it, that's why he was lured by the Dark Side. Sure the actual plot and the romance could be improved, but his overall characterization is fine.
  17. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    They argued in AOTC, but it doesn't mean they didn't care for each other. They worked together and saved each others' lives many times. In ROTS, I could easily believe they were brothers-in-arms and Anakin was really sorry when Obi-Wan left for Utapau. Granted, I'd have loved to see more friendship (especially in TPM), but I disagree with anyone who says they've never been friends.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    So does this mean we agree? Or did I miss something?
  19. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    In OT, he totally took Obi Wan as a fierce and annoying foe before his redemption, nothing more. All the dialogs they shared showed no affection at all. Even in EP V, his comment of Obi Wan only refer him as a foe.

    Look Revan, sure Malak betrayed him and they had a final duel, but they still shared many words after that, not like purely mortal enemies.

    Sure the PT didn't show enough friendship of them, and I think it's the right way to do so because that's how their relationship was portrayed in OT.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Dec 7, 2012
  20. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I'm talking about the OT.
  21. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    they were friends yes,

    were they brothers in arms? I wouldn't say so,

    the prequals wanted to show the Romance between Padme and Anakin more than the brotherly love of Obi-Wan and Anakin

    when really when you think about it, the mother of the skywalker twins wasn't really that important to the story, neither was this whole celebacy of the Jedi stuff,

    the romancce was a big part of the prequal story, and imo didn't need to be.
  22. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, and that's the right way to do so, just the actual plot of the romance could be improved.

    In OT, Anakin and Obi Wan really don't have real great friendship like Obi Wan claimed, like I stated, you can see it from their action in the OT trilogy.
  23. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    They did fight together. Hence, brothers-in-arms. They were better at that than at a master/apprentice relationship anyway.

    She was because she was the trigger for Anakin to go to the Dark Side after the death of his mother. Whether it's well executed or not is another matter :)
  24. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    they fought together yup, but more as comrades as part of the same team, instead of "brother" in arms I feel.

    think of the 1960's Batman, and imagine (as comical as it is) Adam West and Burt Ward in the places of Obi and Anakin on mustafar, that even to me would be far more heart wrenching than what we actually got.

    ---------

    but just because she was the trigger doesn't mean she had to be,

    no where in the OT is padme mentioned (except the whole, she was kind and sad, to which some people don't even think Leia was talking about her)
  25. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I know this sounds sarcastic, and I'm sorry for it, but - duh. By the OT they were NO LONGER friends, although Obi-Wan remembered Anakin as a friend IN THE PAST.

    Are you judging their friendship entirely on the OT as it now seems you're arguing for?
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
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